What is "Real" Hip Hop?

[UNORTHODOX]

You would think so, but a lot of "rappers" dont even spit these days and "clubbangers" dont make headnod. None of that gets airplay, instead you get some random dude making a lot of show which gets picked up by the next gen. Its their example of how hiphop should sound like, imo, next gen gets dumbed down since noone have any skills whatsoever. Sure, we still have some folks that go around the mainstream tag but that only cool sometimes. Kids want to identify them selves with those "artist" with the biggest show. In our days those shows would be a blockparty, the dj, the artist and some funny features, nothing fancy at all was needed to get the product out.

Thats the evolution of the social connection between artists and the audience. People arent impressed by spittin. They want something easy going, and fun. Lazy? possibly, but I havent seen many MCs (Master of Ceremonies) fill the void yet. (Though trends are heading back to hardcore bars. Theres hope.)

Its our job to bring back the VALUES of our culture we loved.

 

[2GooD Productions]

And seeing as no one here has died and experienced a spirit world where you know all the secrets to existence, you wont.

Where the fuck did that come from? What has that got to do with anything we have been discussing?

More universal truth(realities).......

We are all born.....we will all die.
You cant go back in time.
The universe is made of atoms.
You stay underwater for an hour without breathing aperatus you will die.
Hitler was a cunt.
We have to eat to survive.
The earth rotates in a 24 hour cyle.
It revolves around the sun in aprox 365 says.
A day is 24 hours.
I love hip hop.
I make beats.
Im an illmuzik member.
The desert is hot in the day and cold at night.
Water is made of hydrogen and oxygen.
Plants photosynthesise.

There, thats real, it has fuck all to do with perception, you cant bring philosophy into an argument about facts.
The existence of god....speculation/philosophy
The existence of spirits or a spirit world.....speculation/philosophy.
Someone going out and "copy-cat"ing a movie doesnt make the movie real, it makes the person acting out the movie a nutcase.
A person believing the lies or propaganda told to them doesnt make the lies real, it makes the person believing them gullible and a fool.

What exactly is your argument that needs to be disproven?

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Its not a matter of proving anything, you've been told, if you choose to not accept the definition of real then thats your choice.

I can respect your belief.

another cliche; hiphophead explaining issues with cars...like whenever possible

shit makes more sense without the hiphop style philosophy lol.

If you dig that stuff go read Kant's enlightment

Who is Kant?

Where the fuck did that come from? What has that got to do with anything we have been discussing?

Dac brought up the getting hit by a car and yall were referring to my "Are we real" point. No need to get in your feelings

Prove your perception in this world is what it you think it is. Everything you've listed came from something you've been told. You said your self, people lie or propaganda w/e

 

[2GooD Productions]

You would think so, but a lot of "rappers" dont even spit these days and "clubbangers" dont make headnod. None of that gets airplay, instead you get some random dude making a lot of show which gets picked up by the next gen. Its their example of how hiphop should sound like, imo, next gen gets dumbed down since noone have any skills whatsoever. Sure, we still have some folks that go around the mainstream tag but that only cool sometimes. Kids want to identify them selves with those "artist" with the biggest show. In our days those shows would be a blockparty, the dj, the artist and some funny features, nothing fancy at all was needed to get the product out.

Exactly....the kids today see whats portrayed as hip hop in the mainstream and they believe thats what hip hop is. Which is half the reason hip hop is where its at today. Because the kids coming up on the bullshit dont know any better and accept it as truth. And aim to achieve that same bullshit.
Its up to us oldskoolers to skool the kids coming up and to guide them on the right path. Which is a why a lot of these oldskool rappers are bringing out new shit with a very distinct message that this hip hop shit has gone wrong.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Dac brought up the getting hit by a car and yall were referring to my "Are we real" point. No need to get in your feelings

Prove your perception in this world is what it you think it is. Everything you've listed came from something you've been told. You said your self, people lie or propaganda w/e

LMAO, its not affecting my feelings at all. Its been a good discussion, been a long time since I enjoyed a thread like this. its more an expression of disbelief.

Birth and death has nothing to do with what Ive been told, I saw my kids born, I saw my mother die.
My friend was under water for over an hour, guess what, he was dead when he came up.
I love hip hop, no one told me that.
Im a member on illmuzik....LOL, Im sure everyone reading this thread can vouch for that.
Earth rotating in 24 hrs.... I have a watch.
Earth going around the sun in aprox 365 days.... I have a calendar.
Eating for survival...well I have gone hungry a lot lately and yeah its not good for me, I lost loads of weight.
Oh how I wish I could go back in time..

How is this what someone has told me? Thats most of my list.

 

[Formant024]

Thats the evolution of the social connection between artists and the audience. People arent impressed by spittin. They want something easy going, and fun. Lazy? possibly, but I havent seen many MCs (Master of Ceremonies) fill the void yet. (Though trends are heading back to hardcore bars. Theres hope.)

Its our job to bring back the VALUES of our culture we loved.

You know, i cant claim the name hiphop and make it have the value that belong to the skills you'd find back then, i just add REAL to it when the mc(fuck the distinction) spits and the beat is on point.
I disagree that its our job to bring back the values, you be you and if shits on point you'll be alright. If not, you'd still be you. I think the stuff i listen to is mostly those artist that have not changed in order to move units. They might be dedicated but i know theyre probably even-steven at the end of the month. This is also real and in all realness counts for the biggest part of all people living hiphop on the daily.

So, unless your name is Cage, just be you. I think if more people would cater to their own definitions, that movement grants itself the title of a real culture. Imo, that's why hiphop in the 90's got to be so fantastic...everyone was original

 

[UNORTHODOX]

LMAO, its not affecting my feelings at all. Its been a good discussion, been a long time since I enjoyed a thread like this.

Birth and death has nothing to do with what Ive been told, I saw my kids born, I saw my mother die.
My friend was under water for over an hour, guess what, he was dead when he came up.
I love hip hop, no one told me that.
Im a memeber on illmuzik....LOL, Im sure everyone reading this thread can vouch for that.
Earth rotating in 24 hrs.... I have a watch.
Earth going around the sun in aprox 365 days.... I have a calendar.
Eating for survival...well I have gone hungry a lot lately and yeah its not good for me, I lost loads of weight.
Oh how I wish I could go back in time..

How is this what someone has told me? Thats most of my list.

Eh true but it still falls under my "How do you know it was real arguement"

But thats not my point in this thread and we will have no answer because we dont know for sure.

My ultimate point is, real doesnt exist. We have what we experience and what we experience others to say they've experienced. Real "Hip Hop" is a misconception. You feel it our you dont. Its good or its not.

If you call it fake, why call it Hip Hop?

And as for the existence debate. I think that deserves a 60 page thread all its own lol

 

[Formant024]

OT; Immanuel Kant is an 18th century philosopher of the German school. Probably the one that defined modern philosophy as you know it. Enlightment is probably his most-read but Kritik der reinen Vernunft is about more about reality than you can currently grasp. Hence me saying that adding philosophical issues to the topic will NOT go hand in hand...we'd go way off topic on a subject that really has been answered already (and would know if you'd read it )

 

[UNORTHODOX]

You know, i cant claim the name hiphop and make it have the value that belong to the skills you'd find back then, i just add REAL to it when the mc(fuck the distinction) spits and the beat is on point.
I disagree that its our job to bring back the values, you be you and if shits on point you'll be alright. If not, you'd still be you. I think the stuff i listen to is mostly those artist that have not changed in order to move units. They might be dedicated but i know theyre probably even-steven at the end of the month. This is also real and in all realness counts for the biggest part of all people living hiphop on the daily.

So, unless your name is Cage, just be you. I think if more people would cater to their own definitions, that movement grants itself the title of a real culture. Imo, that's why hiphop in the 90's got to be so fantastic...everyone was original

Respect.

And when i say you, I mean every producer, should produce for artist that has the qualities they love. Im an artist, I can change the coarse of history, which I plan to. Fight for what you believe in.

 

[2GooD Productions]

If you call it fake, why call it Hip Hop?

Hey if the artist is an emcee then he/she is hip hop, whether they are talking a load of bollocks, or not. Whether they are good or bad, if he/she is an emcee then they are hip hop.

Hip hop: emceeing, breaking, djing, graffiti, beatboxing, (and you can prob add hip hop style beatmaker to that list now)

 

[UNORTHODOX]

OT; Immanuel Kant is an 18th century philosopher of the German school. Probably the one that defined modern philosophy as you know it. Enlightment is probably his most-read but Kritik der reinen Vernunft is about more about reality than you can currently grasp. Hence me saying that adding philosophical issues to the topic will NOT go hand in hand...we'd go way off topic on a subject that really has been answered already (and would know if you'd read it )

Are you saying I cant grasp his writings? Im looking into this regardless. I already said, this convo deserves its own thread

Hey if the artist is an emcee then he/she is hip hop, whether they are talking a load of bollocks, or not. Whether they are good or bad, if he/she is an emcee then they are hip hop.

Hip hop: emceeing, breaking, djing, graffiti, beatboxing, (and you can prob add hip hop style beatmaker to that list now)

Agreed

 

[2GooD Productions]

Agreed

Whut Whut Whut???
You have thrown me now, I wasnt expecting that...
Lol, agreement.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Whut Whut Whut???
You have thrown me now, I wasnt expecting that...
Lol, agreement.

lmaoooo!! yea haha

 

[Formant024]

Are you saying I cant grasp his writings? Im looking into this regardless. I already said, this convo deserves its own thread



Agreed

well, the way you talk about it..you should've known who he is in the first place and hell yeah, regardless of whatever...its a fact you WILL like his writings. Once you do read it, you understand why i said grasp with the perspective on this topic lol(a priori vs a posteriori). Kant pretty much invented the term "common sense", though in some of these topics the ratio tips off the scale (which doesnt imply the topic sucks).
FYI -> empirical realism, you will NOT throw that in discussion in any topic on ill ever unless we have someone here that actualy did study philosophy or arts & science or art history since its not amateur literature (though there are quite a few good simpleton's guide to greek/german philosophy around).

 

[Sucio]

Real is a point of view. I think it still boils down to opinion and location when talking about "real". I've learned to get away from the whole "real" label and accept that Lil Wayne/Ross/Wiz,,etc are Hip Hop. I call it wack Hip Hop. Just as there is no underground or commercial anymore. Not since the invention of online marketing. How is there an underground? I shared the stage wit some cats who emulate what is out there now, not feelin their music, but they are cool as shit and guess what, they are Hip Hop. As a culture we need to stop labeling things and come together regardless of styles of Hip Hop. I never liked West Coast Hip Hop in the 90's but I wouldn't say it wasn't "real".

Man.. that is awesome..

Where's the like button?

 

[LouBez]

Brother 2good...Im 28


Your rant throughout this thread is proof that puristst do not truly understand hip hop...just the basics...ya ll euro cats overcompensate waaaaaaaay to much.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Brother 2good...Im 28


Your rant throughout this thread is proof that puristst do not truly understand hip hop...just the basics...ya ll euro cats overcompensate waaaaaaaay to much.

lol@rantings.

OK I dont have a clue what hip hop is about. I can accept that. Of course Im not american I cant possibly understand it. All these years Ive had it all wrong.

 

[dacalion]

I understand and relate to 2Goods feelings about the condition of hip hop. Theres no denying that hip hop has changed, some feel for the worse, some feel for the better, some think it hasn't done anything but evolved. So the root of this entire thread is based on what hip hop was, to what hip hop is now.

If your perspective is based on what you see nowadays, you can't really speak on what it was from the start simply because you don't know. You may think you know but if you didn't experience it first hand, then your ideas and beliefs are based on speculation and general knowledge. The very best way of learning anything is through experience/living through it. 2Good, skid, myself and a few others don't have a perspective based on speculation or general knowledge because we lived it from the beginning! It's easy to say..."you guys are stuck in the 80's or 90's because of your age BUT we are also experiencing what you guys are calling relevant, and the evolution of hip hop today.

One day, if you and the genre last (like we have...) you will try to explain to younger cats what hip hop meant to you back in 2011. By then hip hop will have evolved into something totally different and at that point I think you will understand what we are trying to tell you now. There will be cats that will call you "stuck in the past" and come up with some of the most off the wall shit that you've ever heard. Mark my words! ~

 

[Formant024]

Yo lou, eurocats are the ones that wear shirts saying "I hate hiphop"...go figure lol

 

[2GooD Productions]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYf5FXyoa-A"]‪KRS ONE- Hip Hop Knowledge‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]