white boys in the rap game

[classic]

First off, im not sorry I brought this topic up at all……
Im glad this topic is being discussed openly I love discussing and hearing different peoples perspectives.

just like everyone has already stated, everyone has different perspectives on hip hop and life in general. As I have stated before I was giving my perspective on the situation. (which I feel is valid)

I dont mean to offend anyone by my views, but i still strongly stand by everything i say (and have said)becasue those have been my experiences . Obviously there is more then one perception in life but I can only give you my “slice” of realitity
People can call my views ignorant etc.. and thats fine, your entitled to your opinion, thats the whole point of my starting that thread

But i have presented valid arguments (atleast i think so) of why i feel this way. This topic was only intedend to talk about white MC’s but as usual race is a very deep and opinionated topic that everyone has a view on.

Here are 4 main points I want to highlight

1 i have no problem with any race participating in hip hop, i do have a problem with exploitation. .i feel that cats like emniem are very dangerous because they have the ability to exploit and rape an artform and give it access to the masses. Forget what u heard, I don’t think hip hop is for everyone. There are some motherfuckers (black, white green , whatever) that just don’t belong in this hip hop shit. And I belive cats like emiem attract that type of wannabe crowed( I understand this is being done by some black MC’s as well)

2. Like it or not hip hop is an African American artform, and white MC’s have and will be looked upon with suspicion. Im not sayin its right but that’s the double standard that exists. Its partly do to suburban E-thugs giving good hard workin white MC’s a bad name, and its partly do to the mistrust of white America that is ingrained in hip hop culture and its partly to do with tradititon

3. I don’t know everything but I have seen and experienced more in my 24 years then most people in our age range. I say this because I don’t want u to think im just some ignorant fool talking out his ass. I was born and rasied in the southern urban enviroment,Ive travled the world, and im highly educated. So when I say something I put thought into it and I take into account ALL my experinces.

4. This is my opinion, take it or leave it

Class……

P.S
Duce thats dope you come from a place were all races get togher to enjoy hip hop like that. I would have loved to grow up in that type of enviroment. But even u have to realise that is a very rare situation. The real world aint like that.....

 

[Shonsteez]

This topic was only intedend to talk about white MC’s but as usual race is a very deep and opinionated topic that everyone has a view on.

What do u expect then? - I mean, what are u trying to accomplish in this thread then, thats it?....Cuz when u say that, yer applying that to any white person that holds and mic and spits hiphop, and that also clearly affects the other counterparts such as the people who help mold the music with him/her.

i feel that cats like emniem are very dangerous because they have the ability to exploit and rape an artform and give it access to the masses.

I agree to the fullest. I never saw anything promissing from him either in the ways u speak of as well.

*And actually to recap on this one regardless of how many stupid white kids in america love Eminem, i dont exactly see him as an actual "threat", or exploiting the artform,....all in all - the dude does rap becuase he loves it for one reason or another, therefore he became involved, its just that he blows and raps about stupid shit and people are eating it up, but i could name a million billboard emcees doing the same thing, maybe not to that magnitude - but its the same thing. Plus, people (the consumers) are obviously buying his shit, not only becuase they like his dumb ass for some reason, but also becuase EM has what u call a fantastic PUBLISHER and a rediculously influential Production team....Its all bizness in that respect. But dont dismiss the fact that he is just another rapper.

white MC’s have and will be looked upon with suspicion.

I agree, or it once was at least back when it all began....But the reality of the situation is that its fucking 2005 now and people should get over the stigma,.... as a white dude if im a rapper in the game, im not tryin to monopolize, or damage the business model, and i think ultimately thats bullshit anyways, the CONSUMER controls who stays in a job and who continues to get bread. Whats fucked is u need a "soul-card" to be accepted even if yer a producer and yer white. I do kno about segregation, and understand its harsh effects, and i as well should have mentioned that its not all peaches and cream where im from either. I just meant earlier that the people i have chosen to make friends and surround myself with believe the same views. Ive had black emcees not even want to work with me at first glance cuz they jus dont dig the fact that im white. Then they hear my music and things change. Its funny how people get this defense mechanizm up at first and then art breaks those beariers usually anyways.....

3. I don’t know everything but I have seen and experienced more in my 24 years then most people in our age range. I say this because I don’t want u to think im just some ignorant fool talking out his ass. Ive travled the world, I was born and rasied in the southern projects and im highly educated. SO when I say something I put thought into it and I take into account ALL my experinces

I kno yer a smart cat class, i never ever doubted that...Its evident when you talk to someone who has a gift or is simply aware of his surroundings for example.

*I just wanted to say that MAYBE its possible even from what your surroundings have shown u, that they arent 100% acurrate in helping u make that descision? Because we all should know that your environment, your surroundings, all the way to the way yer parents brought u up effects even that descision u made today about whites in rap. That doesnt always make it correct tho. Im not the messiah either, im jus stating fact that i kno and have learned from my surroundings, education, blablablablabla........

P.S
Duce thats dope you come from a place were all races get togher to enjoy hip hop like that. I would have loved to grow up in that type of enviroment. But even u have to realise that is a very rare situation. The real world aint like that.....

See thats why i said i just think that its unfortunate u see things this way, Because its actually NOT SO RARE AS U MAY BELIEVE. - The world is like that in places man....in alot more places then u think

 

[Chrono]

^^ I must say Ra THe Rugged Man fooled me when i 1st heard him..Same with

Words Worth
Tone deff
Copywrite
Mr eon
Jon B

Alot of others

hey wordsworth is black.. he was on mtv's lyricist lounge a few years back

 

[Greg Savage]

hey wordsworth is black.. he was on mtv's lyricist lounge a few years back

Yes he is and im saying i couldn't tell that from his Voice Proving my point..

you cant telling someones race based on there voice

 

[Chrono]

aye nnxt

but hey, when it really comes down to it it's survival of the fittest. i doubt the white majority can take the reigns of hiphop away from the black majority. my only point to this whole thread is that the racist 18th-19th century white mantality died even though it had funded aspects of the economy at that time. Even though a certain majority of white businessmen killed frequently to maintain chattel slavery. The only thing you can count on in life is change. that piece of advice is probably the only thing i've ever really held on too, or was able too hold onto

 

[GucciCondom]

Underground Hiphop has tons of white kids who get respect.

Mainstream doesn't have a lot of white kids but thats controlled by the media. When the big record companies feel it will be profitable to start moving in a lot of white kids they will.

 

[Rhythmikal]

take it as a compliment, if every white kid is tryin rap and avoid dance or whatever, then people must see somethin in hip hop and have a higher respect for it than all the other shit.

u dont have a nation of black kids gettin into heavy metal.

sAfE.

 

[StressWon]

Underground Hiphop has tons of white kids who get respect.

Mainstream doesn't have a lot of white kids but thats controlled by the media. When the big record companies feel it will be profitable to start moving in a lot of white kids they will.

Thats exactly right!!!!! Welcome to illmuzik,,,I have a new friend! lol

 

[Cold Truth]

I say Em sinlge handedly breathed air into hip-hops lungs because of the content of his lyrics. He's a straight up comedian w/ mad punchlines. He isn't talking the same ole bullshit, like riding on 24's and fuckin mad whores.

there are SO many artists who fit this description to perfection its rediculous.

black star didnt breathe new life into hip hop? hell yeah they did. common? the roots for crying out loud? how much more can you do to breathe life into hip hop.

mad punchlines... ok...like chino xl didnt have more-arguably better-punchlines for eyars before eminem popped up on mtv. punch and words? CHECK. Black Star's "Twice In A Lifetime" was basically nothing BUT punchlines, and some pretty good ones were in there. common wasnt on the money/clothes/hoes tip either... i used to love her didnt breathe life into hip hop? how bout "things fall apart" how about "atliens" or "aquemini" or "funcrusher plus" or "soundbombing 2" i mean damn that was the major jump off for dilated, mos def, black star, common, pharoahe, i mean damn, those guys all went on to major careers (ok..cept pharoahe, but hes coming!) after that, and that album also featured...yup..you guessed it... eminem. that breathed more life into hip hop then most albums i can remember, because of the movemnt that followed.. actually lets go back to its cousin, the lyricist lounge vol 1, which more or less forshadowed SB1&2.

do i hear anybody talking about how much those compilations did to reinvigorate hip hop, to ignite an ENORMOUS underground movement in the midst of the P Diddy/Big Willie era of all thinsg jiggy? how abuot the sway and tech wake up show tapes?

eminem gets so much undeserved credit and to be honest, i think that if he werent white... he would not be getting that credit, because those so-called "doors" that he "opened" dont exist. the only doors the dude opened due to his whiteness was his wack ass, no talent group d12 and gave 50 a home..... i dont see the hordes of white dudes gettin on because of him. the underground is seemingly dominated by whites these days, but that truthfully has nothing to do with eminem imho, because as it was pointed out, tehre were many other whites around his time with similar styles and characters.....
anyhow i got more but this is already pretty long.

 

[DJ Hoppa]

I am now dumber for reading these 5 pages.


Thank you.

 

[Fury]

I think if there nice and can catch my ear then they deserve the respect...Like Vinnie Paz that is my favorite rapper and he got my respect

 

[Rhythmikal]

hey at least white guys are acting like Eminem instead of acting like 50 Cent... now how much would that piss everyone off. picture a white teenager saying:

''watup shorty , i seen u in the club and if ya boi dont stop mean muggin me ima pop his head off his shoulders''

sAfE.

 

[Shonsteez]

It pisses me off "In GENERAL" seeing all these carbon copy clones of anybody - Especially EMINEM!..............Guess its all about yer perspective and where you come from???

Cuz -

picture a white teenager saying:

''watup shorty , i seen u in the club and if ya boi dont stop mean muggin me ima pop his head off his shoulders''

Sounds fucking stupid being said by anybody to me anyways!!!! - Its about the lyrical content, not the fucking dude holding the mic. "Stage Presence", "general artistry", "good delivery", thoughtfull lyrics, all that........All that shows me iz your age, and how intelligent u are in the first place. If that was a serious emcee saying that, i would be like "come back to me when u got something real to say in the first place"....

 

[o-a-ksavage]

"Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man's genetic lineage -- the notion that a man's intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors. Racism claims that the content of a man's mind (not his cognitive apparatus, but its content) is inherited; that a man's convictions, values and character are determined before he is born, by physical forces beyond his control. This is the caveman's version of the doctrine of innate ideas -- or of inherited knowledge -- which has been thoroughly refuted by philosophy and science. Racism is a doctrine of, by and for brutes. It is a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism, appropriate to a mentality that differentiates between various breeds of anmials, but not between animals and men. Like every form of determinism, racism invalidates the specific attribute which distinguishes man from all other living species: his rational faculty. Racism negates two aspects of man's life: reason and choice, or mind and morality, replacing them with chemical predestination.... Like every other form of collectivism, racism is a quest for the unearned. It is a quest for automatic knowlege -- for an automatic evaluation of men's characters that bypasses the responsibility of exercising rational or moral judgment -- and, above all, a quest for an automatic self-esteem (or pseudo-self-esteem). To ascribe one's virtues to one's racial origin, is to confess that one has no knowledge of the process by which virtues are acquired and, most often, that one has failed to acquire them. The overwhelming majority of racists are men who have earned no sense of personal identity, who can claim no individual achievement or distinction, and who seek the illusion of a "tribal self-esteem" by alleging the inferiority of some other tribe. Observe the hysterical intensity of the Southern racists; observe also that racism is much more prevalent among the poor white trash than among their intellectual betters....There is only one antidote to racism: the philosophy of individualism and its politico-economic corollary, laissez-faire capitalism."
--Ayn Rand breakin it down

 

[Ash Holmz]

Fucin CRacKeRS...................................

















j/k




























the problem here does not lie with race ... the problem here is the same problem with American capitalist society in general..... that the fortunes, futures, and potential growth of MANY individuals lie in the hands of a FEW... the fact that 2% of the people own 98% of the wealth effects EVERY industry... hip hop is no exception... controversy sells, scandals sell, being shot 9 times sells, comng out of a coma sells, beaing a near fatal car accident sells, ........... creativty alone does not sell, being a poet alone does not sell, having an ill flow alone does not sell, the people gettin exposure and really gettin on heavy got talent and a controversial story.. and many times its the story more than talent that gets them those sales... G-unit is the like best sellin rap group of all time.. they all been shot.. coincidence?... look at evryone who sold big in the last few years... controversy, controversy, controversy.... race isnt an issue... the reason why em was so successful is because he was "first" to blow on that level with that style and it created "contoversy" cuz a white boy who could murder dman near any nigga on a mic creates "controversy" and his problems with his girl and shootouts and pistol whippings all lead to more controversy... hip hop is like the 11 o clock news nowawadays ... a whole bunch of controversy and gossip then there that little 2 minute segment where they actually show something positive.... how cute

 

[o-a-ksavage]

^^^^^^
I think you're right that skill doesn't sell in the short term as much as a lot of gimmicks. But over time skills will prevail, and wackness will fall off. A guy like Chingy will not last more than a couple of years. Someone like nas or outkast will have a long, productive career, with a following of people who can actually judge quality that continues to grow. Who cares about what the morons think? Yes, it might be sad that skill doesn't always bring in the most money, but wackness cannot last, talent will always eventually prevail.

 

[Shonsteez]

Well said OAK.

 

[maddogg]

my 2 cents I see alot of people sayin theres no white rappers "out" besides bubba and em. To me that means you need to search a little harder for music theres plenty of white cats payin bill off rap producing under the radar they got deals distribution etc just cause there not on mtv every 20 minutes or have 100 copies of there latest album on the front shelves of best buy doesnt mean they dont exist.

2nd Im white and when I see a white rapper i think hes a joke until proven other wise.This is because 8 times out of 10 they pretend like there super thugs.

3rd point i seen someone made a point of saying that when they see a white rapper they get scared because they know what they can do to a black artform. My opinion on that is that rap music was raped when rappers started gettin deals with labels these labels were payin artist 1000 dollars for a hit record. They put out some wack crossover pop artise like hammer vanilla ice etc..So to me certain artist that didnt know any better sold the music to these old white record execs. Rap music is mainstream now and it is "POP"ular music.

Anyway the music lost its purity when it left the street it lost its ownership it was sold...

money is the root of all evil
Peace

 

[Haze47]

yea harking back to the begininning TIGER went thro loads of shit. He had death threats all of the time, people saying golf was for white men. he also got shit from the blacks, cuz he quite often put his nationality as asian on scorecards, his mum is thai.

But the only racism I PERSONALLY ever see, is black people or asians ganging up on white people, and it all starts with the classic line, What are you looking at? now, im not saying that white people dont do this as well, but IMO white people are far too scared of trying anything with a black person, for fear of being dubbed a racist and facing charges of Inciting Racial Hatred. It is a viscious circle most definately. But blacks play to this. and that is the excuse i hear for the justification of violent behaviour. @CLASS your comment about the country club owner is UTTER BULLSHIT, it is not the way it is, it may be the view of a some small minded minorities, but you are tarring all owner thusly, that in itself classes as SUBTLE RACISM VIA ESSENTIALISTATION AND EMPHASIS ON NEGATIVITY, and all of this bollox is fed to us by the fucking media, so all i can say to EVERYONE HERE is DO NOT TAKE EVERYTHING THE MEDIA SAYS FOR GRANTED, EVERY PIECE OF NEWS HAS ITS FACE VALUE MEANING BUT IT IS THE CONNATATIONS THAT INFLUENCE AND EFFECT US. and rasism is ALWAYS at the centre on news issues in some way, as is CREEDISM, which is a lot more harmful. For example in LEEDS, i get stopped 3 times a week by the coppers, because i wear a cap and a hoodie, it is this that should concern us all, WE AS PART OF THE HIPHOP COMMUNITY are tarred with the brush of early 90s gun culture, and thusly we are ALL persecuted by the pigs, not just whites and not just black, WE HAVE BEEN STEREOTYPED as crims all of us.

on apparthid - as you (mr...) said it ended nearly 10 years, so why are there still hangs ups, It is all of this anti white propaganda, that is harming africa in general. As a sounth african it is your countries duty to shoulder the rest of africa, and without a united south africa how can there be an africa without corruption and with stable useful world economy. Without the white in SA, the country would be in dark ages still (AND I AM DEFIANTLEY NOT CONDONING RACIAL SEGRAGTION) the dutch and the brisish EAST INDIA companies turned sounth africa into the sounther hemispheres most powerful country as the trading routes have to round cape of good hope. Also, remeber that basically all AFRICAN aid is distributed by the UN the WORLD BANK and the IMF, all based in white westernised countries.

@ CLASS again, White people ruining rock and roll? white people ruining hip hop? WTF, so hip hop is for blacks only. I though hip hop was for those who couldnt afford a 1000£ fender guitar, who wanted to make music and had the love for the old, i dint realise it only applied to blacks, I NOW MAKE PROG HOP haha, white hip hop....lol, most hip hop in contries other than USA is white i would say.

Last point, WHAT ABOUT STRESSWON, he is white!

 

[classic]

long post, but there is video lol

if u noticed in an eailer post in this thread I stated that a lot of African Americans “cry wolf” and play the race card and I think that is unacceptable. It makes the real bullshit I grew threw seem meaningless.

Again I respect your opinion man and it was well spoken but this goes back to what I said earlier. We live in too sepreate realitites. IN my realitity, that is the way things are.

Im not going to get into to much detail, but I am a graduate student in Information systems and im in my last semester finishing my thesis. I cant even begin to tell u the bullshit I have to go threw daily,
-professors thinking im the fucking janitor,
-Students spreading rumors im cheating becasue I get very good grades
-Faculty thinking the only reason why im in the program is afframtive action

Not to mention am one of only 3 African Americans in my grad dept.
This is my reality man, this shit still goes on and I aint just making it up. So for every black person u see playing that “race” card bullshit, there are 100 people like me that are living this shit daily. Don’t get it twisted. This shit is real.

@CLASS your comment about the country club owner is UTTER BULLSHIT, it is not the way it is, it may be the view of a some small minded minorities

Now what u fail to understand is that IS the truth, that is the way it is,. Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. THis not the view of some small minded minority. This is the view of a large chunk of white America PERIOD. Most just try to hide behind fake smiled and empty gestrures. How do I know this???because ive seen it and experienced it my entire life.
This shit is not being made up by the media. You have to understand that there are some things your not going to understand or be aware of unless you experience it first hand.

but you are tarring all owner thusly, that in itself classes as SUBTLE RACISM VIA ESSENTIALISTATION AND EMPHASIS ON NEGATIVITY

I don’t feel im empahisiszing negativity at all. I think negative is when people live in la-la land and sit there and try to say race dosent matter to them when that is utter bullshit. U cannot live in the 21ist century and not be affect by race. It’s the predominate matter of our times.

Last point, WHAT ABOUT STRESSWON, he is white!

I will use an example of my fraternity to represent how I feel hip hop…

I am a member of an historically black fraternity called phi beta sigma which has over 300,000 members. For those who don’t know black fraternities (males) and sororities(girls) are immensely popular in the black communitity and have played a key role in the social gathering and education of black people since the early 1900’s(there are 4sororities and 4 fraternities total). Don’t get it twisted black fraternities are nothing like white fraternities that you see on TV. They are close nit and serious, they are a life long commitment. Once ur in , you in.. that’s it.
Recently we just initiated a white member into my frat. Needless to say, this was a big deal, people were shocked we let in a white member in. All hell broke loose. But we felt he upheld the ideals of our frat so we accepted him

If u click here
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~jason12/5 me_steppin.MPG
u can see him stepping with all of us.(he is in the first row on the left) (im in the second row in the center). HE has been a member for 2 years now and he has become a of a celebratrity), He gets love from everyone and is treated the same despite the fact he is white. (he pulls more chicks then me now, that bastard)

My point is this. IF a cat is real he is real, regardless of color, but just like my fraternitity I feel hip hop is black American art form that reflects the experiences and culture of black Americans.(just like the blues and jazz) Anyone is allow to participate an add their own flava as long as they realize and respect those facts

My humble opinion

Class….