You guys will hate me at the end of this.

[TrustNo1]

Hey guys , dont take this personally or anything, but i gotta rant somethin.

Sampling - in the sense that a whole bar or loop is taken from a record and then bass and drums are added by a "producer" .... to me this isn't producing. like i dont consider people who do this to be artists or musicians. cuz really i started off producing DrumNBass and Hard Trance, which relies more on composing then on samples. Then i got into hip hop production in the last year or so. I never sampled because it just seemed like a hassle to hook up a turntable to a soundcard, etc. and its pretty much biting someone else's music isn't it? ?? ?

taking a bunch of different loops from different records and arranging them on a step sequencer to me is just like working on a jigsaw puzzle: just keep fuckin wit different arrangements and eventually you will come up with something that can pass as a beat. even a kid could do it.

then again, producers like Primo can cut up samples and make some sick stabs and hits , which is not what im really talking about. I guess a beat i could refer to would be like "When we were kids " by Luda or any other beat that relies on a whole riff/bar taken from a next song. to me thats a cheap way to make music.


i think producers who compose from scratch are the real talent.

sorry, i had to get that off my chest....now before you guys lynch me PLEASE keep in mind that im generally new to the hip hop production, but i have been makin rock,metal, allkinds of electronic music for years. Maybe that has given me some kind of bias as to how music should be produced. I'm hoping that you guys will open my eyes up a bit on the subject. What u guys thinK?

Trust

 

[sonny cheeba]

i cant say any thing about your tracks because i cant get to your site so i have no point to see where you are coming from but sampling is sampling wether it be premo or p diddy its just some are just better at it. i do both there are times when a sample make a better point than keys. im not saying this is you but a lot of times when producers down sampling is when they cant do it. and it is an art to it. second sampling is at the core of what we call hip hop (two turntables, two records looping one break) thats how it had to be done before we could afford keyboards.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

yeah i thikn taking 2 bar samples and looping them is wack.

but i think taking a sample and flipping it is dope.

btw....i think making beats in general is a bit like putting together a jigsaw puzzle.....wether its keyboard beats or sampling.

 

[mercurywaters]

its the same old conversation. is sampling producing or not. i agree with trust. looping 2 bars and adding drums and bass is wack. its producing, but being a producer who samples, i like to put more work into my beats. i usually chop all the way down to one or two notes and build my own melodies and harmonies. even if you listen to premo's old stuff, he was looping 2 bars and adding drums and bass. the chopaholic premo you hear today wasn't always that way. now there are more options open to producers to make music with. its up to you to decide whether you want to stick with the old or get a triton and make club beats. my 2 cents

 

[fade502]

Peace to whoever mentioned the 2 turntable loop that started hip hop. As long as it is dope... I could care less. Unfortunately, most songs that are created with 2 bar loops and drum beats, don't make the dope cut.

I'd rather hear than than the same tired old club beats that keep comming out. For real...

 

[dacalion]

I agree 100%, thats some wack ish. Relying on other peoples work is str8 junk in my opinion.

 

[Ash Holmz]

it all about the finished product.... sometimes a 2 bar loop works..sometimes it dont but like merc said evry big time producer at one time or another has used 2 bar loops with drums over them... rza, kanye, just, alchemist,premo, dre, timbo, ...but i agree with that relying on that shit and doin it everytime is weak....but hey if its dope evrytime who am i to argue?..kanye does it alot..and it works alot too...so i cant hate cuz the final product is good

 

[Chedda]

i think if it's just a 2 bar sample and some drums and a bassline like you lot say then it is kinda wack, when people like kayne do it tho sometimes peoples judgement is clouded by the name the producer has, but sometimes the tune just sounds so dope you gots to forget about the sample issue and just feel the beat.

but when you're talkin the premo style, i see it more as using the sample as an instrument, cutting it at different pitches and making a nice sounding melody with what you got, i don't think there should be any kind of sample issue with those sort of beats.

 

[Medicine Man]

Why does it always have to be sampling vs. playing it all yourself??? I make some beats with only synths and instuments, but sometimes I find a tight sample and construct a beat off of that. Most of the time I will add stuff I play to a few tight samples, or play something tight on the keyboard, then add some obscure samples that fit with the track. And hasn't anyone ever heard of using found footage in movies. Film makers use it all the time, but no one says they're biting. Its just that every new generation uses the last's film footage for there own montages. Plus, I've heard plenty of techno tracks that sampled shit. And what about covers in techno and rock! Most rock groups always play a few covers at a show. How are these rock groups not being critictized for not being original, or biting other groups shit?? The rock group No Doubt has a cover of a eighties song right now, but they don't get critized like P. Diddy did for his tribute to Biggie, "Missing You". It's a double standard every other style of music puts on hip-hop, and it's getting old. The bottom line is that hip-hop is here to stay, and sampling is part of hip-hop. So if you wan't to listen to or make hip-hop, then get used to sampling.

 

[Shonsteez]

I do both.
I feel tha beat out and it kinda tells me whether or not to add a sample or a synth...or both for that matter.
What ever tha outcome: I always try to be as creative as i can and not just slap on a sample and let it go...I usually do alot of filtering, change of starting points or ending points, envelope adjustment, and also connecting various pieces of samples to one another to form a completely different work of art...And yes im proud to say i create art.

 

[K.O.]

i personally have never sampled, not sayin i never will but im not into it.....but for some people they just cant do it any other way. for some people sampling is the only way for them to make a hot beat.

 

[Cold Truth]

*yawn* here we go again............

two bars aint wack. i dont give damn what you do, if it sounds dope, hey, i could give a rats... listen to kanye's "song cry" and listen to the original sample.... that doesnt mean it wasnt a dope beat.........


we can argue wether its wack or whatever but the truth is that it really doesnt matter- there are some classic jewels that were just loops with drums on em..........

and i am one who swore off sampling a while ago (i'm just all about composing my own stuff these days) so, it aint like i am tryin to defend myself here...

and by the way, why does it seem like everyone wants to add little stipulations to making beats? i say, "shut up trust"- no ofense- i just think this is a pointless issue. someone mentioned how primos tracks "shouldnt be an issue" or something to that effect, and why not? why should sampling be an issue at all?

bottom line: it isnt for any of you (or myself) to decide- leave that up to the guy gettin ZERO on his album because the original artist jacked him for like half the publishing not to mention giving the guy who made the beat another fat chunk.


but on a side note.......................

anyone else get asked where thy got taht sample from often? when it was your melody? i love that feeling..!

 

[mercurywaters]

well you have a motif truth. that keyboard has sounds in it that sound real. if i had a motif i wouldn't need to build instruments from samples all the time. you self-righteous bastard. just kidding truth.

 

[mono]

Originally posted by Holmzini
it all about the finished product.... sometimes a 2 bar loop works..sometimes it dont

right man. fuck it, its hiphop. it came from the breaks, flipping the "2 bars" from a song that made you crazy. plus there where no instruments. its a part of the cultures essence i think.
nobody said we are the big musicians. what we are is, the dope cats, spittin tight lyrics over an ass shakin sample. and i dont care if its a simple loop or a complex synthie production. if its dope, its dope !

 

[Cold Truth]

nah i sold the motif! everything you have heard in the last two months is off sampletank, which costs about a third of the motif! you should get it... i highly reccomend it..

 

[soundboy2]

2 or 4 bar loops come from funk, when you dig you got to study that stuff to. If loops are wack to you, you dont like hip hop

Rob Base, Audio Two, stuff like that is the best shit in the world.

I can create my own drum patterns and play with syths sound. I do that pretty well. But I love to find loops that the average person wouldn't find, I got loops that are simple in format, but when you hear the whole song ,you wouldn't know that was in there, unless you fuck with it for hours . But I like to just loop a lil Isleys or James and write a hook to it, let somebody spit to it, Thats fun to me. I'm not acting like I re-invented the wheel. Thats hip hop to me, Makes me feel like I'm Bambada or somebody. A loop, a mic, a MC , thats the DNA .

I'm also taking guitar lessons and learning to really write and play to.
But I dont think sampled loops are wack, thats were we came from.
Thats like saying yo mama is wack.

You got to be new to this,

 

[Shonsteez]

If loops are wack to you, you dont like hip hop

Word tha fuck up!

That basically sums it up i think.
Hiphop is strictly rooted in simple boom bap structure with fly ass samples that loop over and over....that doesnt make it wack tho.
Its simply a newer form to manipulate sound, and i think that it has a come a long way and tha greats have shown it plenty of justice.

But I love to find loops that the average person wouldn't find

Thats what its all about...I love that shit!........Random crates that jus all of sudden turn on a light bulb in yer brain.

 

[SupaStar]

Hasn't hip hop always been about the lyrics ?
I guess Trust your forgetting that as a beatmaker you focus on ish thats totally different to the listeners of hip hop. Fans and lovers of hip hop i doubt they pay any attention to wack ass loops or samples - its what the artistes are say'n.
So i believe its you thats just too much of a critic with ya fine tuned ear thats been trained to listen for every damn thing thats wrong with a track - i have this problem and its sad now I cant listen to my joints in peace anymore cuz i keep criticizing ish thats not even important.
My two cents

 

[bigdmakintrax]

I don't hate anyone for asking a question from their viewpoint, but I think a lot of focus is put on categorizing individuals, I think that if you sit in a room full of people, each one gets a ball of clay and you tell them create each person is going to interpret "Create" differently and yeah you will have those that come up with a nice creation and then you will have those in the room that have to look over their shoulders to get ideas to build their ideas........ok you ask what the hell does this have to do with the question........well basically production has many different interpretations.......just because DNB required this and that or other forms more composition its cool....My opinion of DNB was somebody did actually take a shot a making hip hop from loops but they sort of didn't know how.....but back to your question....loop production or from scratch production are equivalent, there is not one any better than the other..... a well put together basic beat can either loop over and over or you might choose to alter the kick every 2 bars and the snare every three and maybe create and intro for 4 bars etc and then go into the verse for 8 bars and then do a 2 bar hook.......it doesn't matter how you get to this end product that is called a song.......production is required to get to that point.......Pete Rock and a lot of old Skool producers were sometimes limited by their equipment, sample times etc.......but they wanted to keep their production as close to hip hop roots as a DJ would do it......DJ's sampled loops from vinyls to make breaks and then later on find good enuff loops for someone to rhyme over......(I know there's way more details than that but I don't have time to do a GOD post...).......bottom line I don't believe in the whole hierarchy or difference between producers....production is production if you had two spoons a pan and a tape recorder and you threw a sample in there......production is if you had every software and hardware known to man to make a track.....production is production if you ask me........as long as you have a piece of work that you created even with borrowed elements such as samples or even if you created the track completely from scratch........you are a producer or whatever you wish to call yourself.....if you do an album.....the credits should list you as a producer of some type.......that's my thoughts.......if you accepted a grammy for the work and you used those pots and pans to make the beat they will most certainly refer to you as a producer as far as I know...

 

[Equality 7-2521]

well im not gonna quote anyone at the moment cos otherwise my post would be too long.

on the issue of "its the finished product that matters" and "2 bar loops are wack"............i agree with both.

and that may seem like a contradiction but its not

i think 2 bar loops are wack because even though it sounds dope sometimes, i think it is a lazy, uncreative, overused method of making beats. to me, Hiphop is about progression......sure you can make a catchy tune with ease but your not "taking Hiphop production to the next level" by any means.

i think that the finished product is the most important factor in music................but, i think that looping a 2 bar samples is awefully close to the line between using someone elses finished product to create your own finished product......to me that isnt the way it should be. shurely the producer can find a bit more inspiration than to only add drums n bass.

ps. on this issue ima have to say....fuck what the tradition is. holding onto that concept for this issue is detremental in my opinion.