Thoughts on pirated software?

[thedreampolice]

After getting to know a lot of the people the actually make the software and see the blood sweat and tears they put in to it to make it awesome it does suck for them not to get paid. The earlier Pepsi analogy is lame because physical product and digital products are totally different in your example there is only one Pepsi but your friend still keeps using his copy of Pro tools. By all definitions that is theft. That being said I think many of these company's make life hard on legal users and don't have good demos of the software, I have no issue downloading something and trying before you buy if that is what you really do. But most companies in the music industry are tiny (even digi is considered a small company) So when a large portion of the software users are not generating revenue for the company, that can hurt.

 

[dacalion]

Downloading pirated software is NOT stealing. Morally wrong maybe but definitely not stealing. Conpanies label it as "stealing". How the pirates aquired it could be stealing or they could have bought it and made it availiable for anyone to download, who cares? The people who made it care because its money out of their pockets but thats the nature of the internet. If anyone is guilty of anything, its the internet, which is only a medium for anyone to communicate and share.

If someone samples my work...its what we do. Within "what we do...." we modify the sample to make it orignal. As long as thats done in a way that it no longer "appears" to be my work then its no foul. If it sounds just like my work then its not right. But evenso, I knew the nature of the internet before I made it availiable for download. If its something that I would worry about being jacked, I would copyright it.

I too am like the others who dont promote it, I buy 99% of my programs but Im not gonna be ignorant either.

Bottomline, its a choice...its a decision based on our opinion of whats right and whats wrong. I cant knock anyones opinion nor their choice either way on an issue like this.

Damn good thread though...

dac

 

[SirSedric]

Bottomline, its a choice...its a decision based on our opinion of whats right and whats wrong. I cant knock anyones opinion nor their choice either way on an issue like this.

You are right about that.
Without sounding too much like a righteous internet warrior... It is a choice that people have that they may or may not understand the consequences of... In fact, I may not even know the consequences of it.. For example, how am I to know how many of those 1500 torrent downloaders would have actually purchased the product I was involved with?

Maybe I should be grateful that I helped make something good enough for people to want to take it without paying....But then again, I still feel like I'm being robbed...

 

[LDB]

You are right about that.
Without sounding too much like a righteous internet warrior... It is a choice that people have that they may or may not understand the consequences of... In fact, I may not even know the consequences of it.. For example, how am I to know how many of those 1500 torrent downloaders would have actually purchased the product I was involved with?

Maybe I should be grateful that I helped make something good enough for people to want to take it without paying....But then again, I still feel like I'm being robbed...

Trust and believe that if it was in fact that good the next time you put one out there FOR SALE ONLY you will get more sales. Think of the first round as promotion for what you do. It's like a new artist trying to breakout on the scene. They have to give away way more music than they'll make money from. They also have to do many many free shows.

 

[dacalion]

Maybe I should be grateful that I helped make something good enough for people to want to take it without paying....But then again, I still feel like I'm being robbed...

In a sense...you are being robbed...its like youre a victum of your own creation. Most people "WISH" for the right thing to be done but the internet has opened doors that I dont think were intended at the start. Before the torrent sites, we were very limited in what we could upload or download. Once people figured out how they could make a buck doing it, the game changed instantly.

Unfortunately we have to take the bad with the good. Priracy is wrong, accepting something that is made availiabe is not (IMO). Its alot like "natural selection" in the wild...a lion is gonna go after the weakest prey and people will go after whats free alot quicker than something they have to pay for. It all depends on which side of the fence youre standing on.

dac

 

[woohff]

Naw mang.. gotta get that shit cleared if you're gonna be releasing it on a label!

Isn't that something we all should be against? How many pieces of art hasn't been released because you cannot get shit cleared. I bet a lot.

How many awsome producers wouldn't be that awsome, if they never could've not downloaded a piece of software at some point.

But it's all in your heart, and you have to ask yourself "can i steal this once, so i wouldn't have to steal anymore in the future?".

For the sake of art I'd wish all these programs and samples and etc. were free, but I definately see the business and doing it for a living - point of view too. But you should remember that people prolly will come back to you when they're able to get some money with your program or whatever.

Oh and we might not have RZA and the Wu if ODB would've not stolen the first equipment for RZA. I definately think, that it was right thing to do. Look how many careers were launched from one stolen drum-machine.

 

[38th||]

Hmmm....I have my fair share of illegal software but over the past two years I have purchased the software I use most(Cubase, Ableton, Wavelab, Komplete, and Waves Platinum). I am neither for or against this argument but there is no way around it. We can twist the words around all day but if you install software that you didn't pay for then it is stealing. Just because you wont catch a breaking and entering charge doesn't make it less of an offense. We are either breaking a license agreement, violating a term of service, or some other similar act....but it clearly is stealing.

I personally valuable my intellectual property and consider it priceless at times. Anyone in any faucet of the entertainment or media business should understand this. Which is basically what software is, intellectual property, anyway...

We cant use the analogy of software being too expensive cause I don't see too many people trying to boost MPC's from Guitar Center which are equally as pricey. Why? Because its not easy to do and the risk is so great that no one would risk jail for one. But because we can all sit at our computers and download music, movies, and software, with pretty close to anonymity, little risk, and with little effort, it feels as if it is ok.

We cant download preamps. We cant download turntables or monitors. We cant download the computer we run the software on. But we refuse to pay for something that we use in a practical application on a daily basis. Yet, we want people to listen to our music...how oxymoronic.

 

[SirSedric]

We cant download preamps. We cant download turntables or monitors. We cant download the computer we run the software on. But we refuse to pay for something that we use in a practical application on a daily basis. Yet, we want people to listen to our music...

Say word son!

It's hard to talk about this stuff sometimes, there's a lot of issues wrapped up into one on this topic...

There's the argument that it is or isn't stealing, the argument that "corporate america" deserves to be stolen from, the argument that the internet is a place where we must accept piracy as developers uploading our products for buyers to download, the argument that is our customers who share and begin the piracy....as well as the argument that it's not stealing if someone gives it to you....

In the end, I guess no one can ever stop piracy... and the harder you try to stop it, the more your potential customers begin to despise you *cough*DigiDesign*cough*.... If I were to make a plugin or a sample library that required some sort of extensive activation/ registration procedure, people would think I was a douche (if they don't already)...

I guess I really should just be thankful that I have had a hand in something worth stealing...

My grandpa would have said "You pray for problems like these"....and I think he was more right than I'm ever willing to accept. Just like with sample clearance... you pray that your song becomes popular enough to have somebody notice and want a piece of the pie. It seems the only solace I can find is to make more stuff, people can choose to buy it.. people can choose to acquire it through alternative means... as long as it helps them make more music... I give up.

 

[LDB]

I can only speak for myself. Had I never stumbled upon Reason learned how to freak it I would have never walked into the Guitar center and purchased it. Had I never stumbled upon Ableton and learn how to freak it I would have never purchased it.

Bottom line these company's need to rethink there business plans and approaches to selling there software. The internet is not going anywhere nor is piracy. U either find new ways to market and sell your product or continue to get robbed. They need to give a SERIOUS discounts for upgrades instead a few dollars off. Do you want life time customers or here today gone tomorrows? They need to give the average Joe more of an incentive to legally purchase there shit. Ableton, Reason and Logic have been the only 3 recent programs that in my opinion have been WORTH purchasing. There upgrades have been significant, meaning they didn't just add a new sound module pretty up the box and jack up the price $100 and call it NEW. Most serious producers WILL purchase what they use on a regular basis. I'm proof of that. And these trial periods need to be a hell of a lot longer and totally unlocked. U can't ask me to buy some shit based on a trial period with limitations like most these bastards put on them. It's in most people to do the right thing but if I feel you're just in for profit and your don't really care about me as a consumer then I gives a fly fuck if you make a dime. Plain and simple!

P.s. the hardware , software argument is senseless to me. One is not looked upon in the same way as the other. NO MATTER HOW U DRESS IT UP....

 

[dacalion]

SirSedric, Im only starting to understand your view on this. Im not sure what was jacked from you and it ddoesnt really matter because its obvious that it was something that you poured you heart into. I gotta stand on the fact that if someone gives me something its not stealing. At the same time, I dont promote piracy.

Anyway, dont give up...keep on standing for what you believe. It says alot about who you are and your moral values. There is no answer for piracy yet. What LDB said really makes sense. Companies are gonna have to make better decisions on marketing their products or continue to get jacked. Thats the first line of defense fo sho.

Peace Kings,

dac

 

[SirSedric]

SirSedric, Im only starting to understand your view on this. Im not sure what was jacked from you and it ddoesnt really matter because its obvious that it was something that you poured you heart into. I gotta stand on the fact that if someone gives me something its not stealing. At the same time, I dont promote piracy.

Anyway, dont give up...keep on standing for what you believe. It says alot about who you are and your moral values. There is no answer for piracy yet. What LDB said really makes sense. Companies are gonna have to make better decisions on marketing their products or continue to get jacked. Thats the first line of defense fo sho.

Peace Kings,

dac

I feel it, no harsh feelings to anyone here of course...

Unless you stole my shit!

 

[dacalion]

None takened...being my ILL bro means that I can piss you off and you can piss me off but NOBODY else better not %#@% with ya!

And no I didnt steal ya ish, I havent stolen anything in a minute. Thanks to people like Chrono, Relic, Fade, LDB and 2Good, Ive turned from jacking people into a masked murderer instead.

Peace King,

dac

 

[SirSedric]

. Thanks to people like Chrono, Relic, Fade, LDB and 2Good, Ive turned from jacking people into a masked murderer instead.

Good to know, if I ever need some problems taken care of.... ; )

 

[DaWorldFamous]

Is it wrong to download software..man please...

Like many of u have said who has the money to go out and buy this shit. If u ask me all of this is poetic justice. Software developers and the music industry has been ripping us off for years. I only wished I would have taken advantage earlier. I have been "FINDING THINGS" since 2002 and I show no signs of stopping. WHO REALLY CARES?...who is going to listen to your stuff and not like it because u used pirated software. Furthermore, who is gonna ask if u registered your version of fruity loops? How will they know unless u tell them and really, who is gonna care? I would post a link to a forum but it's against the rules. I have a link that has everything, Get at me if u want it...

It's not stealing if u FOUND IT anyway. the niggas doing the dirty work are the ones stealing.

Anybody want that link?

 

[SirSedric]

Is it wrong to download software..man please...

Software developers and the music industry has been ripping us off for years.

My only point of contention is that I'm not a 'software developer'... nor am I 'the music industry'....
I've never ripped anyone off, never overcharged for the work, never put out anything but good vibes into the community...

I'm just a dude who put lots of hours into making something as both a personal investment and a resource for other musicians. One is happening, one isn't.

I've tried to keep it all relatively nameless, I don't want any flak from these guys I worked with... but we made a Reason ReFill... It's not like I care or even know how many people have pirated Reason.. In fact, they need Reason to even use it... maybe Propellerheads sells enough product to support themselves even with the rampant piracy... But I don't... and it's because after pirating Reason, people go and try to find any ReFills they can... including the one we did.

In the end, the salaries of Propellerheads' staff gets paid regardless of what happens. I only get paid for what sells. So yeah, maybe all's fair in love and music... but from where I sit it doesn't seem like it.

 

[thedreampolice]

"Software developers and the music industry has been ripping us off for years."

Mot of the software companies in the music industry are tiny are are not making loads of cash. There are a few exceptions but most pro audio companies are only 3-4 people. Digi, Mackie, Tascam are some of the big guys but what about Spectrasonics, Toontrack, Heavyocity, Rob Papen, Steven Slate, Drumagog. These companies are just a few people and piracy really does hurt there ability to put out new plugins and pay there staff. I have no problem with try before you buy, but if you get paid for your work your goal should be to make your software legit. Also getting real updates is very nice!

"In the end, the salaries of Propellerheads' staff gets paid regardless of what happens."

Thats not true at all if sales slow for whatever reason than the staff gets laid off or the pay gets cut. Thousands in the music industry have been laid off in the last few years.

 

[DaWorldFamous]

"Software developers and the music industry has been ripping us off for years."

Mot of the software companies in the music industry are tiny are are not making loads of cash. There are a few exceptions but most pro audio companies are only 3-4 people. Digi, Mackie, Tascam are some of the big guys but what about Spectrasonics, Toontrack, Heavyocity, Rob Papen, Steven Slate, Drumagog. These companies are just a few people and piracy really does hurt there ability to put out new plugins and pay there staff. I have no problem with try before you buy, but if you get paid for your work your goal should be to make your software legit. Also getting real updates is very nice!

"In the end, the salaries of Propellerheads' staff gets paid regardless of what happens."

Thats not true at all if sales slow for whatever reason than the staff gets laid off or the pay gets cut. Thousands in the music industry have been laid off in the last few years.

Ah look at u niggas with your morals...I will continue to use this shit homie, because I am a struggling producer. I might and I do mean I might buy some shit when I get it poppin' but until then, If it's availiable, I'm gettin' it. You dudes sound crazy as hell. You can't knock someone who is trying, and not hiding behind the excuse of, "If I only had money to buy the new Reason...I could...." If you got the cash to buy it, go buy it and enjoy it, but don't knock those who don't just because you can. It's like u are looking down your nose at the have nots. Do you and I will do me.

 

[DaWorldFamous]

I wish I could steal a MPC...excuse me "FIND" an MPC

 

[SirSedric]

. Do you and I will do me.

What if part of you doing you takes money out of my pocket?
I would never do that to another musician.... that's all I'm saying.

I'm not some moral beacon or anything... like I said, did my dirt and lost my shirt....not trying to chastise those who do what they do get their studio's running either... just disheartened that so many people have taken my work and therefore my money. As much as I'd love to be able to say that it's not about the money.... it is.

 

[DaWorldFamous]

What if part of you doing you takes money out of my pocket?
I would never do that to another musician.... that's all I'm saying.

I'm not some moral beacon or anything... like I said, did my dirt and lost my shirt....not trying to chastise those who do what they do get their studio's running either... just disheartened that so many people have taken my work and therefore my money. As much as I'd love to be able to say that it's not about the money.... it is.

You are damn right about that one....

However, it is all about the money or lack there of. If I can't buy software what should I do...give up or use my mouse to click download? This is keeping me in the game...I wouldn't be doing music had I not found these sites and delved into the technology....One man's ceiling is another man's floor, so U have to do what suites you the best.