Question to old school/boom bap producers here

Hi there,

I have a quick and maybe obvious question to guys who make boom bap/old school here. Since I remember I've kinda struggled with getting a good sounding bass when I make boom bap/old school. Most usually I synthesize bass out of a filtered square wave or use a plugin with imitation of a real bass, but I got bored of it. :( It gives me kind of an '808-esque' sound and I now that it's not what I'm looking for.

Just to get this straight: I'm not asking about the usual smooth old school bass as I can get this one in the way I described before.

What I want is to get more 'fatty' and 'dense' bass like here ((I know it's a bit funny example but that bass that starts playing at 0:08 is absolutely fantastic to me!):



Or like in "Candling" by @Armani that he made for the recent Beat This! contest.

As I said my biggest problem is that my 'old school' bass sounds too much like an 808 (at least to me). And the problem is when I try to experiment with the real bass most of the time vsts that emulate real bass sound to high for my taste even if you play low notes and apply low pass filter on it. :(

Maybe I'm just overthinking it but if you could give me some advice as to what I should do or share your tips and tricks for making good sounding old school bass I'd be grateful for this.
 
As I said my biggest problem is that my 'old school' bass sounds too much like an 808 (at least to me). And the problem is when I try to experiment with the real bass most of the time vsts that emulate real bass sound to high for my taste even if you play low notes and apply low pass filter on it. :(
I think we somewhat share the taste here. in both kicks and basses I almost always go for the least "noisy" one to keep it out of the songs way. at some point I was even using pure sinewaves as my basslines lmao. even now if u listen to my tracks, my kicks are usually non-existent sonically. they just punch the sub-bass and leave immediately.

Or like in "Candling" by @Armani that he made for the recent Beat This! contest.
Here's the base of the bass sound (no pun intended) I used for the track without any effects (it's "electric finger bass" from FLEX. I played it on all octaves so finding similar sounds would get easier)

Here's the bass after the effects were applied


and here are the effects (The irony with the EQ tho... I didn't even remember that lol)

Screenshot (2557).png
Screenshot (2556).png



and the saturator is off. my guess is that I was tryna give it life with saturator, but then turned it off and tried to simulate the same effect with EQ. hope this helps.
 
Thanks for advice but holy moly I can't believe this is the EQ for the bass you used o_O. I never mixed bass like this. Will have to experiment with adding more harmonics to it like you did from 1 kHz to til the end of the high frequencies. But damn, for real it looks quite extreme to me :LOL:
Lmao I guess that's the fun in old school hip hop. the more lazy n fucked up you get it done the "grittier" it sounds :hahaha:
 
Thanks for advice but holy moly I can't believe this is the EQ for the bass you used o_O. I never mixed bass like this. Will have to experiment with adding more harmonics to it like you did from 1 kHz to til the end of the high frequencies. But damn, for real it looks quite extreme to me :LOL:
btw mr. memento, this is the second time I accidentally impress you while not knowing what in the allah's fuck I'm doing. I don't think you'd remember but, the first time was when you used to do these battle podcasts, and I made this beat where my dumbass entirely forgot to add bass. you gave a tiny note about admiring the creativity of making the kick huge instead of using bass, and you even said that you weren't sure if it was intentional. I was like "yeah no definitely intentional, totally. that's the Armani style". sittin there listening like

Suspicious Monkey GIF by MOODMAN
 
I don't think you'd remember but, the first time was when you used to do these battle podcasts, and I made this beat where my dumbass entirely forgot to add bass. you gave a tiny note about admiring the creativity of making the kick huge instead of using bass, and you even said that you weren't sure if it was intentional. I was like "yeah no definitely intentional, totally. that's the Armani style". sittin there listening like
Nah, I don't remember it because it was more than three years ago (sic!) and I completely forgot about it. I mean I remember making them and I still have backups of them just for the sake of memories but I almost never listened to them after I made them and sent them to Fade. So in that sense I have only a slight recollection of what I said in them. Some things that I do remember though is me answering the question about sausages xD And I remember that someone even left a comment that "damn, this dude knows a lot about sausages) :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Or there was also one episode where I literally didn't have much to review and I had to come up with some additional topic to make it a bit longer and it was about exercising and keeping an eye on your health as a producer :LOL: Yeah, that was pretty cool thing, but it wasn't worth continuing it as first of all, it was really time consuming (partially, because I was preparing a script every time I was recording so I had to write most of the things that I talked about down) and secondly, there was very little interest in it. Let's face it, besides people who participated in battles no one listened to it. So I was making it for maybe 20 - 30 people in total. If it had been for 200 - 300 people every week or 2000 - 3000 people then most probably I would have continued it.

Next thing and also one of the major ones that contributed to it a lot was the fact that most of the time those podcasts were just boring. I mean there were maybe 8 - 10 really strong guys and most of the time they were winning so almost every week I was talking about them which was a bit pointless and not interesting. Also what can you say about a beat that is just good? How many times can you repeat "drums are on point", "good bass", "I like this, that" blah blah blah.

Anyway, it's nice that you remember about it. If I were to reactivate it I would do it totally differently. Most probably I would do it in a more YouTube way where I'm just talking to the camera and doing it without the script. I would just go with the flow.

btw mr. memento, this is the second time I accidentally impress you while not knowing what in the allah's fuck I'm doing
You are the perfect example that respect has to be earned. At the beginning I had a pretty negative opinion about you. First of all, you were a young brat and secondly, you were starting so naturally your beats were wack. But I really love seeing you progressing and developing. And in my eyes you really went from being an annoying kid to a guy that's really skillful and aside from this you can give very good advice not always linked to music.

I would really like to see you succeeding in the future at music because you still have a chance to do it. You're young, you have skills etc. So I keep my fingers crossed that maybe some stars will align in the future and someone will discover you.

In my case it's most probably not possible. Music career doesn't seem to be for me. :D Hobby? Probably yes. Passion? Maybe. But career? I don't think so. If I'm still not discovered by the age of 28 I doubt that I will be magically discovered at the age of 30, 35 or 40. Besides, the older I get the more pragmatic and realistic approach to life I have. Or at least I hope I have it. :LOL: One thing that I know for sure is that as a person I came to terms that I need some form of a creative release. When I don't make music I write short stories (I've been working on a few of them recently). But I doubt I will ever be someone important, famous etc. Also I don't think I need it anymore. Three years ago I would have loved to be famous. Now I wouldn't want to be. I'm looking for peaceful life not the one where someone will be tracking my every step all the time. Also I stopped perceiving myself as a "special person" or someone like that. I really let my ego go away and it massively improved my contact with other people. This also goes with being more realistic: I just realised that I can't pretend to be above the others if I haven't achieved much myself. It would be very delusional of me to think like this.
 
The bass in the song you posted is a bass guitar. I use R-Bass to fatten up the low 50-60hz(used to do it by adding a pure sine sub bass layer, lpf'ed at 80-100hz), I often cut above 4k but have at times cut it way down at around 80-100hz. It really depends on the bass sound Im working with, the context it is in, and the results Im going for that dictate how I will EQ and filter. At this point it can sound a little bit underwhelming after cutting frequencies, if it does I will add StandardClip Pro, use it in soft clip pro mode, add usually around 10% - 25% saturation, add gain until it takes a little bit off the top of the peaks making sure I cannot hear distortion, then I will sidechain the kick to a compressor(fastest attack, fastest release, ratio around 4:1 pushing around -12db of gain reduction) on the bass. If my bass covers more of the spectrum, due to being thick and having higher frequency information, I will go through other instruments/tracks that share the same frequency range, like grand piano for example, or cellos, or orchestral bass, I will either sidechain compress, or more likely sidechained dynamic EQ the offending shared frequencies on those tracks too, always allowing the bass to be as thick as possible, without having frequencies clashing and masking or summing and peaking. I usually do this by creating duck busses, one for the kick and one for anything that shares frequencies with the bass. That way one compressor or dynamic eq on each bus can control multiple tracks sent to them.
When I have multiple basslines, or layered bass, I will send them all to a bass bus and do all the sidechained processing on that channel instead of doing it to 3 or 4 different channels, this just allows 1 compressor/dynamic eq to do what would have taken 3 or 4 or however many tracks make up the basslines.

There are always many ways to skin a cat, whether its by layering to fill the frequencies that are lacking, equing to do the same, or using a plugin like R-Bass or a saturation plugin that creates harmonics for you. An EQ can only work with information that is there, saturation and R-Bass can create harmonics that arent already there, which you can then eq to taste to get the high freq grit while cutting or boosting other frequencies to get it to sit in its place properly.

I find that generally a bassline will be 6db quieter than my kick. This is more a guideline as I have never gotten my bass balance right consistently IMO. Getting the bass right has always been the biggest challenge for me, because of the energy that is contained in those lower frequencies its quite a balancing act, and a fun challenge TBH.
 
In my case it's most probably not possible. Music career doesn't seem to be for me. :D Hobby? Probably yes. Passion? Maybe. But career? I don't think so. If I'm still not discovered by the age of 28 I doubt that I will be magically discovered at the age of 30, 35 or 40. Besides, the older I get the more pragmatic and realistic approach to life I have. Or at least I hope I have it. :LOL:
The only people you should be trying to get discovered by is fans. "Waiting to be discovered" translates to me as "waiting to be exploited by one of the most fucked up dirty industries".
My attitude since my second heart attack is do the things I love, and I love making music, I love the process, I also like to use my creativity. I think our creativity is the greatest gift that separates humans from animals. The business side has always taken second place for me, making better music today than I made yesterday is my number one goal, everything else is secondary. It's my own personal journey, people can choose to be a part of it or not.
If you want to be "discovered", given a massive loan that is expected to pay for EVERYTHING, that you will most likely never earn back or ever receive a royalty check for, then carry on. It will likely not end well.
You are still young, so chase what it is you wish to achieve, opportunities aren't going to fall from the sky and land in your lap, you need to put yourself in front of those people, you need to hustle, make connections, people that know people and grow your circle and grow your opportunities, in music or any other industry.
In life and many businesses its not always what you know, but who you know too.
Glad to hear you are taming your ego, Im still taming mine, as creatives our work is our baby and no father or mother likes people talking shit about their offspring.
But at the same time, need a thick skin in this game and in life in general.
 

Fade

The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
The bass I usually use is from an old plugin and it's a low end bass which is good enough but for my productions. I always add a low pass filter on it then tweak it from there. I've always found that filtering really helps a lot (along with EQ) for bass. It can take a long time to find a bass plugin that you really like, but once you do it makes a big difference. A lot of VST basses do sound thin/cheesy/clean so that's where you have to dive into using various effects to get the sound you want.

Just for a test, try starting off with the bassline first in your next beat and build from there.
 

OGBama

Big Clit Energy
If @Memento Beats you enjoy music and making music, keep on doing it for you. There is an audience for everything but the economic reality is just because we are free to aspire to commercial gain does not mean that we will be able to commercialize what we want to do because the market is all about the 1% that have exploited and do exploit the 99% that they sell distractions (sex, drugs, etc.) to. Waiting to be discovered is how/why the business preys on the naive and impressionable and its wheels are greased by the naivety of easy to exploit youth.
 
Thank you @2GooD Productions @K-waz @TWU @Fade @Iron Keys for all your advice. That's very helpful :giggle:

It wasn't til I read arvins reply that quoted the OP that I realised Memento was the OP

I was shocked :eek:

Can't believe Memz is asking that. Thought he'd be too good for such question
I like this monicker: Memz :D Yeah, just as I mentioned in my original post maybe I'm just overthinking it. Keep in mind it's not about the fact that I can't make a bass but I'm looking for some new ways of making a bass that I could use in old school beats. Or maybe different sounds etc. And due to the fact that I've been using the same or similar pattern to make it over the years I just got bored of it. So I decided to ask. :)

Secondly...

This kind of EQ curve is why I can never fully trust arvin.

Morally speaking
I know right?! :LOL::LOL::LOL: This Arvin's EQ is some kind of strange abomination xD But it also shows that those rules that some people follow don't always work. I like his solution because it's totally out of the box.

3rdly... don't use square wave... use sine. Maybe double osc it an octave up.

Then saturate it enough it kinda bubbles or sounds fluffy. Subtle growl.
Nah man, square wave is great but as I wrote in my original post it's good for making 808s. I don't know why but sine wave is just to plain and to simple for me. :( Blank. It has too many characteristics of sub bass and I've always struggled with exposing a bass made out of a sine wave. Even if I add some saturation, harmonics, distortion etc it's still not what I like. I will have to experiment with it more.
 
@OGBama @2GooD Productions I have a feeling that either I wrote something wrong or you misunderstood my intentions. So let me clarify and let me refer to your posts so that you have a better perspective of what I mean.

The only people you should be trying to get discovered by is fans. "Waiting to be discovered" translates to me as "waiting to be exploited by one of the most fucked up dirty industries".

If you want to be "discovered", given a massive loan that is expected to pay for EVERYTHING, that you will most likely never earn back or ever receive a royalty check for, then carry on. It will likely not end well.
"The only people you should be trying to get discovered by is fans. "-> Well... This is what I've been trying to do for the last 7 years. And maybe not only this. I wanted was to get clients, people who would buy beats from me or with whom I could form business relationship to secure a steady income. And I'm not talking about income that would allow me to buy a mansion on Bahamas. Let's be real here. Of course I used to have dreams of being famous etc but my main goal was to support my living from making music and being within the industry. That means making enough money to buy food, pay the rent, buy myself some new clothes from time to time etc. Just to cover living costs. Later on after I was failing to find those clients etc they transformed into "getting a bonus from time to time". What I mean by this is I'd have a normal job and from time to time I'd have a collaboration with someone or someone would ask me to buy some of my beats and I'd get some extra cash.


opportunities aren't going to fall from the sky and land in your lap, you need to put yourself in front of those people, you need to hustle, make connections, people that know people and grow your circle and grow your opportunities, in music or any other industry.
In life and many businesses its not always what you know, but who you know too.
Don't even get me started on this one... I'm tired of all this talk about "hustling" and "chasing opportunities" and stuff like that. Man, I've been uploading my beats since the 3rd July 2016. Since that time I uploaded 132 beats to my YouTube channel and for this moment I have 88 400 views (half of those views was generated by one remix that was magically promoted by the algorithm). I was making beats when I had 50 subscribers and I was uploading 2/3 beats every week then. Since the very beginning I tried to make connections with a local rap scene. I had some collaborations like the one with you when we made a beat tape. I even went to Poland's Got Talent (although I was singing there not making beats). I participate in some remix contests like recently I took part in Rockstar Energy Drink remix contest where the task was to remix an original song by one of the best Polish remix artists and producers - Tribbs. The goal was to remix instrumental from this song:



But I knew I would blow it because first of all I received an info about this contest about a week before the deadline where I needed to send a remix and it was in the middle of the exam session on my studies. I barely found 3 hours to make it. So I knew it wouldn't be anything special. Especially when I heard other submissions that were distinguished (because on the website with this contest they were posting the best submissions that they got).

I tried to get into this business also in the other way: last year I took part in a contest organised by Newonce Radio - it's a radio in Poland and they were looking for a radio host. The task was to record yourself talking about the recent event in pop culture (I chose Eurovision because it was right before the final concert on the Eurovision contest) and prepare an exemplary playlist consisting of 10 songs. So I did it and I never heard back from them.

So concluding, please don't throw all these blank phrases about "putting yourself out there", "you gotta hustle" blah blah blah. Everyone hustles here in some sense (I mean on Illmuzik). Everyone's trying to make it somehow. These are the words that I've heard millions of times from some motivational gurus etc. So please spare me this. I'm too old for this kind of bs. Really, the reality doesn't look like this. You can burn yourself out "hustling" (I f*cking hate this word for real), you can work your ass off and get nowhere.

The one thing that I do agree with you though is that it's more important whom you know. But somehow for me it's much more difficult to make connections within this artistic world than it is in a business one. This is why I came to conclusion that music will probably be just my hobby. But who knows maybe I will meet someone from the industry who will open some doors for me. I don't know it. The thing that I do know though is the fact that I'm not actively looking to meet someone like this. The problem is also with my personality - I wouldn't want to get somewhere just because I know someone and someone referred me somewhere. Even in my professional career I had some moments when someone referred me somewhere and believe me it didn't make me feel good about myself. :( The satisfaction from achieving something on your own versus getting it handed on a silver platter can't be compared.

Another thing is the fact that for example in my professional career I see constant progress. I earn more and more money every year although I make small steps. I know that I earn good money (I mean good for me), but I know that I can earn more in 2 years, 5 years etc. But every point on my resume symbolises better salary. So I do feel happy with my current workplace. Probably for the first time in my life. I'm finally happy with my regular job because it's very enjoyable and the conditions I have are great to me.

When it comes to music recently I got more subscribers but that's it. It's still just my hobby and I know for a fact that brand Memento Beats is finished and dead. Basically, uploading new things to Memento Beats Official is pointless because I ruined the algorithm for this channel over the years. I would have to create a new brand and the good thing about it is that now I know how to create a brand. I know that all elements have to be coherent with each other. The colors of your graphics/ thumbnails, fonts and especially the sound of music. You have to be consistent. It has to give a sense of familiarity to people. I also know how to make things more entertaining to viewer/listener. But although I know all this stuff and I know that I would be able to create a new channel that could be more successful than Memento Beats I don't know if I want it.

You mentioned that I'm still young but I don't feel like that. As I mentioned the older I get the more pragmatic I become. And now if I have to choose between spending time on learning something that in a few years will give me better job opportunities (for example learning a new language, learning some technology, tool etc) and spending time on making music I will probably choose the first one. And if it's not the first one then I prefer to just chill, go to the gym, play basketball, go running, watch a movie, play a video game. Because at the back of my head I have those hundreds of hours spent on making music that literally got me nowhere.

So that's it. I hope this clarified my point of view a little bit.
 
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