Problem AGAIN

[MassAppeal]

why is it that many producers can make so many good tracsk when theyve never had any musical training, but when a person like me tries to make a beat i cant make nothing that sounds decent. Can someone give me tips to composing a beat?

 

[Hi-Lo]

why is it that many producers can make so many good tracsk when theyve never had any musical training, but when a person like me tries to make a beat i cant make nothing that sounds decent. Can someone give me tips to composing a beat?

how long you been making beats for man? its not like u can just jump into it and be dre...

second you gotta realize a lot of good producers are born with innate musical training. you could train all you want, and you'll never be able to have timbaland's rhythm...and theres a lot of producers out there who work perfectly in scales, transition from major to minor, i mean all kinds of "musical" shi* without even knowing that they're doing it- they just know it sounds right.

also i'd definitely try doing your drums first, i noticed in your other post you mentioned messing around on keyboards...if we are talking modern music theory here well...the drums are everything, period. you can have a great melody but if you got weak drums, either pattern or sound wise, and you're trying to sell it to someone as a hip hop track, its not going to happen...whereas a LOT of famous hip hop beats are 80% drums and 20% melody (jigga what, jigga who, for example).

 

[Relic]

^ nuff said...
For me it just comes. I think people who read music or are too trained have problems because there is nothing natural there.Too stiff, unable to just create. I dont read music, Ive studided it but playing someone else sux so I just do me.
That being said I never make the same track twice as a result. I rarely even use the same sounds twice.Once a song is done thats it next kit, next bank next record or w/e.

 

[Ash Holmz]

u gotta understand that ur making a beat .. not a musical score .... i think some people think that because they can play the keys well or because they know music theory that they should automatically be able to make hip hop beats too.. naw .. hip hop aint chords,scales,etc ... hip hop is an energy unto itself... hip hop is soul.....swagger....some people just have it .. others can learn it over time.. knowing your theory can help, but more importantly than any piece of theory is knowing how to make shit BANG ... theres no book or class in the world that teaches you how to make shit bang... ur either born with that or u have to learn it on your own in time .. and even if you are born with it u still have to use it or u will lose it

not to boast but people always ask me how i get so much "energy" into my tracks .... the honest answer is i dont know .. i couldnt break it down into any type of science or specific technique.. i just do what makes sense to me with the toolz i have available and it comes out that way... ..

i hardly ever start with drumz though ..usually a melody or a sample then add drumz to fit the texture of the melody

 

[misscc803]

PRACTICE PRACTICE...... It will come. I can say that from experience. Cause I was about to give up on beats cause I was like man I cant make shit. But i just started listening to albums and how producers arranged the artist beats and I learned from it. Now I can go out into the studio and actually make tracks that im very happy wit and can accept. U feel me. But keep in mind this took some months not in like 3 days(LOL). When I say months I mean like it took me along time to fully understand how to fully arrange the beat and make it stand out and not just be a big loop u know. But u will get it.

Nicole

p.s. Watch a few beatmaking vids( www.youtube.com ) that sometimes helps me.

 

[MassAppeal]

thanks for the support im just gonna learn as many minor scales,and exotic scales to expand my vocabulary. And listen to some more trax

 

[manguino]

Basic chord progress and scales!

 

[Hi-Lo]

thanks for the support im just gonna learn as many minor scales,and exotic scales to expand my vocabulary. And listen to some more trax

dude thats the point...stop thinking about scales and about all this stuff and make shi* that bangs and that sounds good. thats the problem...hip hop isn't about scales its about the energy and emotion you bring to a track. there are a lot of big hip hop tracks that have nothing to do with scales..."throw some d's" by polow da don...that melody is one note played over and over for the whole song, and hardly anything is added to it.

 

[MarkN]

i think you know u've got something going on when like ash said people ask you how you make something a certain way and you can't explain it you just did it becuase thats how you felt it should sound !
theory and compositional knowledge will help you once you've figured out how to make good ebats anyway, the difference between a good internet synth based beat producer and scott storch is quite often that storch has some much more knowledge or where he can go with a beat etc rather than just the same three chords every song !

 

[Kontents]

u gotta understand that ur making a beat .. not a musical score .... i think some people think that because they can play the keys well or because they know music theory that they should automatically be able to make hip hop beats too.. naw .. hip hop aint chords,scales,etc ... hip hop is an energy unto itself... hip hop is soul.....swagger....some people just have it .. others can learn it over time.. knowing your theory can help, but more importantly than any piece of theory is knowing how to make shit BANG ... theres no book or class in the world that teaches you how to make shit bang... ur either born with that or u have to learn it on your own in time .. and even if you are born with it u still have to use it or u will lose it

not to boast but people always ask me how i get so much "energy" into my tracks .... the honest answer is i dont know .. i couldnt break it down into any type of science or specific technique.. i just do what makes sense to me with the toolz i have available and it comes out that way... ..

i hardly ever start with drumz though ..usually a melody or a sample then add drumz to fit the texture of the melody

True Dat. . .

HIP HOP is Energy. thats damn straight, hip hop aint a Eminor chord. its a feeling you get, its all about analyzing what songs that give you a vibe, and then find your vibe and express it.

 

[thaprecepta]

haha dre isnt tht amazing of a producer he just has a lot of cash so he can actually afford a turntable and other stuff that makes beats and he can actually go digging. name one good track he made (by himself) that didnt feature a sample... uhhhh didnt think so. its all bout the cash sampling doesnt take a genius just someone with patience (and basic rhythm)

 

[manguino]

haha dre isnt tht amazing of a producer he just has a lot of cash so he can actually afford a turntable and other stuff that makes beats and he can actually go digging. name one good track he made (by himself) that didnt feature a sample... uhhhh didnt think so. its all bout the cash sampling doesnt take a genius just someone with patience (and basic rhythm)

Isn't the majority of his more current work non-sample based? (Chronic 2001+)

 

[open mind]

Isn't the majority of his more current work non-sample based? (Chronic 2001+)

its a mix of samples and interpolation (replayed samples)
chronic 2001 credits
1. LoLo (Intro)
Performed by Xzibit and Tray Dee

2. The Watcher
Written By Eminem
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Keyboards: Scott Storch & Camara Kambon
Trumpet: Dr. Dre
Percussion: Taku Hirano
Chorus: Eminem & Knoc-Turn'al

3. Fuck You (featuring Devin The Dude & Snoop Dogg)
Written By Hittman, Devin The Dude & Snoop Dogg
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Keyboards: Camara Kambon & Scott Storch
Percussion: Taku Hirano

4. Still D.R.E. (featuring Snoop Dogg)
Written By Jay-Z
Keyboards: Scott Storch & Camara Kambon

5. Big Egos (featuring Hittman)
Written By The D.O.C. & Hittman
Keyboards: Scott Storch

6. Xxplosive
Performed by Hittman, Kurupt, Six-Two & Nate Dogg
Written By Hittman, Kurupt, Six-Two & Nate Dogg
Bass: Colin Wolfe
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Keyboards: Camara Kambon
Percussion: Taku Hirano

Samples Isaac Hayes' "Bumpy's Lament".

7. What?s The Difference (featuring Xzibit & Eminem)
Written By Eminem & Xzibit
Keyboards: Camara Kambon
Chorus: Phish

8. Bar One (skit)
Performed By Traci Nelson, Ms. Roq & Eddie Griffin

9. Light Speed (featuring Hittman)
Written By Hittman
Keyboards: Camara Kambon
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Chorus: Ms. Roq & Knoc-Turn'al

10. Forgot About Dre (featuring Eminem)
Written By Eminem
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Keyboards: Camara Kambon

Sampled No Doubt's "The Climb"

11. The Next Episode (featuring Snoop Dogg & Nate Dogg)
Written By Hittman & Snoop Dogg
Keyboards: Camara Kambon
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Bass: Preston Crumo
Additional Vocals: Kurupt

Contains replayed elements of David McAllum's "The Edge".

12. Lets Get High (featuring Hittman, Kurupt & Ms. Roq)
Written By Eminem, Hittman, Kurupt & Ms. Roq
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Keyboards: Camara Kambon & Scott Storch
Additional Vocals: Mel-Man & Scruncho

Sampled Fatback's "Backstrokin"

13. Bitch Niggaz (featuring Hittman, Snoop Dogg & Six-Two)
Written By Hittman, Snoop Dogg & Six-Two
Bass: Mel-Man
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Keyboards: Camara Kambon & Scott Storch
Scratches: DJ Pen
Percussion: Taku Hirano

14. The Car Bomb (skit)
Performed By Mel-Man & Charis Henry

15. Murder Ink
Performed by Hittman & Ms. Roq
Written By Hittman & Ms. Roq
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Keyboards: Scott Storch & Camara Kambon
Background Vocals: Traci Nelson

Sampled the "Halloween" Theme

16. Ed-Ucation (skit)
Performed By Eddie Griffin

17. Some L.A. Niggaz
Performed by Defari, Xzibit, Knoc-Turn'al, Timb Bomb, King Tee, Hittman & Kokane
Written By Defari, Xzibit, Knoc-Turn'al, Timb Bomb, King Tee & Hittman
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Keyboards: Camara Kambon
Additional Vocals: MC Ren

18. Pause 4 Porno (skit)
Performed By Jake Steed

19. Housewife (featuring Kurupt & Hittman)
Written By The D.O.C., Kurupt & Hittman
Bass: Mike Elizondo
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Keyboards: Camara Kambon

20. Ackrite
Performed by Hittman
Written By Hittman
Keyboards: Camara Kambon

21. Bang Bang (featuring Knoc-Turn'al & Hittman)
Written By Eminem, Knoc-Turn'al & Hittman
Keyboards: Camara Kambon & Carl Breeding
Guitar: Sean Cruse
Background Vocals: T.Y. Nichols

22. The Message (featuring Mary J. Blige & Rell)
Written By Royce Da 5-9
Produced By Lord Finesse
Keyboards: Lord Finesse & Camara Kambon

Album Produced By Dr. Dre & Mel-Man
Album Mixed By Dr. Dre
Engineered By Richard Segal Huredia

 

[manguino]

nice dude, thanks for that info.

damn, that's really impressive

 

[Cold Truth]

dude thats the point...stop thinking about scales and about all this stuff and make shi* that bangs and that sounds good. thats the problem...hip hop isn't about scales its about the energy and emotion you bring to a track. there are a lot of big hip hop tracks that have nothing to do with scales..."throw some d's" by polow da don...that melody is one note played over and over for the whole song, and hardly anything is added to it.

oh lordy, no offense but this advice is bad, bad, bad

to discourage someone from learning even the slightest bit of real musicianship is bad advice. its never good advice, under any circumstances. whats worse is teaching someone to strive for the most basic "one note wonder" type of beat

this guy is obviously new, and he simply needs practice at his craft. thats IT. and whatever mode he gravitates towards, thats one thing; but to tell him not to learn scales, much less erroneously saying "hip hop aint about scales, its about energy"?

no, see, MUSIC has a number of elements and pieces of theory that make it what it is. music isnt "about" scales, but they are a part of music.

the shit that gets sampled, do you really think thpse guys didnt know their scales? those cats were great MUSICIANS- musicians that ere so good people sample their works and use them to create their own. hy discourage someone from potentially achieving those same heights?

everyone will have a different style and approach. some people can get by without knowing or even trying to learn a lick of theory, of course. don't discourage an obvious neophyte from expanding his palette and therefor his knowledge and understanding of MUSIC as a WHOLE.

 

[Hi-Lo]

oh lordy, no offense but this advice is bad, bad, bad

to discourage someone from learning even the slightest bit of real musicianship is bad advice. its never good advice, under any circumstances. whats worse is teaching someone to strive for the most basic "one note wonder" type of beat

this guy is obviously new, and he simply needs practice at his craft. thats IT. and whatever mode he gravitates towards, thats one thing; but to tell him not to learn scales, much less erroneously saying "hip hop aint about scales, its about energy"?

no, see, MUSIC has a number of elements and pieces of theory that make it what it is. music isnt "about" scales, but they are a part of music.

the shit that gets sampled, do you really think thpse guys didnt know their scales? those cats were great MUSICIANS- musicians that ere so good people sample their works and use them to create their own. hy discourage someone from potentially achieving those same heights?

everyone will have a different style and approach. some people can get by without knowing or even trying to learn a lick of theory, of course. don't discourage an obvious neophyte from expanding his palette and therefor his knowledge and understanding of MUSIC as a WHOLE.

dude he said he already has musical training, thats why he started the thread! his whole problem is that he knows scales and all this stuff but has trouble just making a nice hip hop track, and after we explained to him that he needed to stop focusing so much on theory, his response was he was gonna try to learn some exotic scales...i was making a point saying thats the issue, dude already has plenty of musical training, he just needs to practice and stop worrying about all that stuff.

and by the way, ash said the exact same thing about hip hop being about energy, i was actually trying to reinforce his point- he actually said "hip hop aint chords,scales,etc ... hip hop is an energy unto itself." sounds oddly like what i said..

i would never tell someone not to know any music theory, but that wasn't this kid's issue man.

 

[Relic]

oh lordy, no offense but this advice is bad, bad, bad

to discourage someone from learning even the slightest bit of real musicianship is bad advice. its never good advice, under any circumstances. whats worse is teaching someone to strive for the most basic "one note wonder" type of beat

this guy is obviously new, and he simply needs practice at his craft. thats IT. and whatever mode he gravitates towards, thats one thing; but to tell him not to learn scales, much less erroneously saying "hip hop aint about scales, its about energy"?

no, see, MUSIC has a number of elements and pieces of theory that make it what it is. music isnt "about" scales, but they are a part of music.

the shit that gets sampled, do you really think thpse guys didnt know their scales? those cats were great MUSICIANS- musicians that ere so good people sample their works and use them to create their own. hy discourage someone from potentially achieving those same heights?

everyone will have a different style and approach. some people can get by without knowing or even trying to learn a lick of theory, of course. don't discourage an obvious neophyte from expanding his palette and therefor his knowledge and understanding of MUSIC as a WHOLE.

I was thinking that he already knew all the scales and that the rules were standing in his way..Of course you should learn about everything, but it shouldnt be a wall because your music teacher wouldnt approve of something lol.

 

[Cold Truth]

dude he said he already has musical training, thats why he started the thread! his whole problem is that he knows scales and all this stuff but has trouble just making a nice hip hop track, and after we explained to him that he needed to stop focusing so much on theory, his response was he was gonna try to learn some exotic scales...i was making a point saying thats the issue, dude already has plenty of musical training, he just needs to practice and stop worrying about all that stuff.

and by the way, ash said the exact same thing about hip hop being about energy, i was actually trying to reinforce his point- he actually said "hip hop aint chords,scales,etc ... hip hop is an energy unto itself." sounds oddly like what i said..

i would never tell someone not to know any music theory, but that wasn't this kid's issue man.

my bad, i misunderstood you. i didnt see the ash comment either.

 

[Erica Johnson]

haha dre isnt tht amazing of a producer he just has a lot of cash so he can actually afford a turntable and other stuff that makes beats and he can actually go digging. name one good track he made (by himself) that didnt feature a sample... uhhhh didnt think so. its all bout the cash sampling doesnt take a genius just someone with patience (and basic rhythm)

What the ... you're kiddin right? Are you new to this?

Anyway, there was some good advice in this thread. That's awesome to see 'cause you can't get that anywhere else but on sites like IllMuzik.

 

[sYgMa]

MY advice would be to try to emulate differents styles 1st and then to find your own...

By emulating, you'll get to know who to get the level of energy you want to have and then, with your musical training, you'll be able to use it to make interesting melodies...

Actually, with you're skills, what you could try to do is to make try to compose a basic melody first and then to make the beat around that melody.

Or make banging/smooth drum pattern 1st and add the rest of the instruments over it (but keeping in mind you still want the same or more energy...