I hate to say it, but why do people want it so easy!?

jclay12345

JClay
ill o.g.
cleverwon said:
If you mean that you cant tell they produced a beat, then i have to disagree. Is that what you mean?

No I mean that they don't have a set style. Every time I hear one of their beats it sounds waay different from the others.
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
Nnxt said:
^^^ Awww See you messed it up for me i was gonna say the Same ish But in a Much Much more assholish way

Def Hit it right on the noggin (in my eyes anyway)

lol, thanks.. .hey man, remember to play nice though! lol
 

Cleverwon

Paradigm P
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 74
classic said:
IT sounds diffent but u still know its them. They have a certain signature that stands out in all their tracks. NO matter what they make

class..
Yea, thats what i'm getting at.
 

jclay12345

JClay
ill o.g.
classic said:
IT sounds diffent but u still know its them. They have a certain signature that stands out in all their tracks. NO matter what they make

class..


I disagree. The only thing that makes Jazze Pha's tracks stand out is that he says, "This is a Jazze Phizzle produc shizzle. My nizzle" or "Oh Boy" Without that you wouldn't know. You think you know, but you have no idea. -MTV Diary.
 

Cleverwon

Paradigm P
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 74
jclay12345 said:
I disagree. The only thing that makes Jazze Pha's tracks stand out is that he says, "This is a Jazze Phizzle produc shizzle. My nizzle" or "Oh Boy" Without that you wouldn't know. You think you know, but you have no idea. -MTV Diary.
Lol, you stupid as hell. (mtv diary). nah man, i still disagree. i can tell right away who produced a beat, including those 2 guys, as long as ive heard a few of their beats. ive yet to be stumped, and i think most people with a good ear for music would agree with me.
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
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Battle Points: 25
actually i think the truth lies in between on the jazze phe/ hi tek thing....

tek - WELL KNOWN for his sub bass, for example. thats one traemark; he uses a lot of claps that are unique to him in that they are small and "tight" as opposed to fat and open.
his snares are always "small", and usually "crack"- whereas alchemest has "wide", fat snares that "punch".... plus tek tends to have unique hats, a lot of times created as thinned out snares or sticks and rarely uses a straight ahead "tick-tick0tick-tick" hat pattern.. these are just small things but they are very characteristic of his "style".

jazze phe formula: either a neptune-ish drum/stick/bongos drum line or a mannie fresh-meets-little john rolling 808 line- almost every time out. add swirling wah guitars and organ stabs........ and ouila! jazze phe 101.

actually he is one of the more versatile guys i have heard.... but he does have his pet sounds like anyone else... wah guitar and organ stabs are VERY common in jazze beats. i prefer his more musical outings, i do not caremuch for his synth oriented tracks but the man has skills.
 

Equelizer

BEAT HEAD LOCKER
ill o.g.
classic said:
U have touched on a bigger issue

95% of cats out there have no talent, so they will countiue to follow trends and imatate something else instead of being orginal. These cats will countine by neptune and Dre drum kits and try to imate other peoples styles. These are the same cats who are to lazy to create their own music, they jack a 4 bar loop and call it theirs.

Word the fuck up, I feel you, Class. Shit is getting old hearing the same thing over and over. Big up to the cats that sit down for hours a day and create their own shit. :headbang2
 

jclay12345

JClay
ill o.g.
to cold and clever, ok yall got me, they do have some style similarities in their different beats. But it is not as strong as others. the average listener can tell a neptunes, dre, lil jon, or timbaland beat. But not everyone can tell a Jazze Pha. Only other producers with an ear for music. But I still think Jazze switched as he made more beats. Because when he first started coming out he had that wah guitar and organ thing happening, but he has started to shy away from it. Like I have this friend who can always tell one of my beats. So every time I try to make one so much different then the rest so he can't tell just because I don't want to beat stuck in a style. I got him a few times, but the majority, he knows it is one of my beats and he would also tell me why. Like I said before, it is nothing wrong with having your own style, I just don't want my own.
 

Nitecrawller

Member
ill o.g.
Ok what you're saying is true but in the end when you get a chance to record your beat in a professional studio you will probably experiment with thousants of dollars of neve preamps and compressor to make your s*** sound amazing.You might even come up with your own sound or signature.

Just because you make a beat at home doesn't mean it's gonna cut it in a professional studio. I can just imagine the sound engineer saying "I can't do anything with that snare it seems like it was recorded with a soundblaster".Even if you sample a kanye snare.

Later
 

Lex

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
classic said:
there is a differnce between using other peoples styles and adding your own flava and blantenly biteing somebody

My main influences are orginazed noise, you can here it in my beats. Thats fine casue even though my style borrows a little from theirs, i have my own flava.

If i sit there and just copy lil john beats all day for money(which i could do if i wanted) that shit is wack and shows a lack of creativity on my part.

And yes like it out not 95% of hip hop producers out their do not have talent.

What do
pete rock, kanye west, JD, just blaze, organized noise, DRE, hi-teck, madlib, DJ preimere, timberland and lil john all have in common.

Their own style

class...

^^ I have to agree with most of that. I don't know if people will feel me on this, but fuck it ....

In someway or another everyone is influenced by something or someone or a place etc when they make music [of any genre]. Wether you just get an idea, plan it out or it simply 'popped into your head', you've conciously or subconciously been influenced by something around you.
Sampling is simply a more direct way of doing this - you are influenced by a piece of music you hear and instead of vibing off the mood and creating a melody with a similar feel to it on the keys or the guitar, you are getting the sound itself then manipulating it be it by chopping, re-pitching, EQing...In doing so the music and its feeling/mood/atmosphere/vibe has been re-interpreted or changed by you.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
WhooooooO!!!...OK, Just got back from work for lunch, and dam this thread blew the fuck up!....

Yo to Equality and Clev - Yall hit it right on the nail. Class made a great comment too.

I didnt start this thread with intentions of a war, but i also immediatly expected cats to flip their lid that dont know what im talkin bout in the first place, or misinterpret what the thread meant to begin with. So, to Equality and Clev - Much repect, not becuase yer takin' my side persay, but rather becuase you 2 got the point of my rant 100%. And to the youngsters that think samplin another producer is the same as goin to the store to cop a record that will soon become sliced and diced to later fit yer shit, You fools need to go back to drawing board!....lol.....Yo, if you cant do the work yerself and instead let some other cat go do the most important part for you then yer a buster, and thats a large point of what i was tryin to get across....cats just dont repsect the craft in the same way anymore, its fuckin wack if you ask me.
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
well, tell me what the difference is? there is no difference..... its the same exact thing. the EXACT same thing- i took a kick and snare from rza that he took from someone else.... so what work did rza do that i didnt? the person who did the work in the first place was the guy playing the drums, the guy recording the kit, and the guy who engineered the sound, and rza took all THAT work from that guy, did he not?

wether or not you take the drum from a HIP HOP prdocuer or a an old soul record ITS THE SAME EXACT THING- you are taking the work of another person and doing your OWN thing with it. right? same EXACT thing- and if its wack for me to sample a drum hit from rza, it was wack for rza to sample a drum hit from someone else because HE took the work that SOMEBODY ELSE put in, just as i took the work that HE put in....right?

because to make this argument you have to open it up all the way.

so sampling is great, and all fine and dandy so long as you dont sample other hip hop- right?

how do you think the original drum player, the original engineers feel about us taking THEIR work and the product of HOURS of labor and THOUSANDS of dollars in equipment, and then we jump on our FL demo and snatch it right up for FREE? you dont think they sit there and say the same thing about us? you think that the guy who orchestrates a full orcestra with horns and a 30 piece strings section, how do you think he feels about spending endless hours writing an arrangement for a record nobody heard only for someone to pop it into a sampler and have a hit record that sells millions? they may not mind cashing that check, but i PROMISE you, more often then not, those guys look at guys like us and DONT respect us or take us serious as artists- the exact same way you are looking at people sampling drums from another hip hop artist..
 

jclay12345

JClay
ill o.g.
cold truth - thank you. that is exactly what I am saying.

DueceMade Ent. - man, I just kind of lost respect for you. Not because you don't see my point, but because you are downing everyone that doesn't see your point. Talkin bout ya'll youngsters and people needing to go back to the drawing board....Who are you? I haven't heard your music on any radio or anything. There is no right way to sample. If you want to spend countless hours on one sound, that is your business. But I would much rather spend hours pubbin and sellin my music on the street getting it out to people. what is it that you want people to respect? I respect a tight beat. I don't care how you made it. If it is tight, it's tight. I never heard anyone say, "Hey that Timbaland beat is super. I especially like the eq and filter on that snare. It really feels up the track. He must have dug for hours to get that. I really respect who he got his sample from." No, but I have heard someone say, "That Timbaland track is tight. That boy is genius on the beats."
 

ghostmusic

Member
ill o.g.
It's hard to draw the line and decide what is ok and isn't ok to sample. The real fear is that the true nature of Hip Hop sampling has been lost. People need to look back to the roots of Hip Hop sampling. The beauty came from the fact that the sounds came from all over music. I just don't want to see people sampling Hip Hop records so much that the evolution of Hip Hopi is stifled. If you want to sample a Dre beat, do it, but go out find whack folk record and find a way to flip it and make it dope. The idea, and beauty of sampling is that it can come from anywhere. So sample the TV, sample a crowd, just get past the Hip Hop section of Tower.
Just mt 2cents...
 

Cold Truth

IllMuzik Moderator
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 25
"it can come from anywhere"

well thats my point.

you cant say "it can come from anywhere" and then say"but you cant get it from hip hop"
it just doesnt add up. you may not like it, but to sit there and say "oh, you are wack if you do it this way" is rediculous... people these days are so concerned with the process of other producers that the final product doesnt even matter.. when i am done with that RZA snare and kick they wont even sound like the same samples, but i will i win dup using the raw version as well as the created one.

and seriously, if you think that makes me a wack producer cause i got a drum sound from another.... then your opinion of what makes something wack or not is seriously flawed, because now it isnt on the merits of my product its a judgmment call on my process.

some food for thought: these arent my words, but that of a friends...

When there was no such thing as a sampler, drummers were tryin to find out what "Type" of snare SO&SO uses. WHY?

You know.


When Stevie Wonder showed up on stage with a Hohner that NO ONE had EVER seen, cats lined up at sotres to snatch it up.

SOOOO, the technology has surpassed the need to stand in line and purchase the snare. You can download that Virtual keyboard and have it in minutes.

Lenny Kravitz is probably the ultimate at the "OLD SCHOOL" swipin, he once studied an old photo of a studio just to turn around and drop TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars to replicate that photo. Settings and all!!!

The only difference is dollars.
 

M!nd_Ctrl

Posted Up
ill o.g.
When Hip Hop first began peeps were lifting drums and melodies straight from other artists without changing a thing, but a new essence was creating in combining the sounds. I agree that it's good for people to change samples up to make them theirs, but this is something that we, the new generation created and hold as "true" Hip Hop. No one back in the day cared where the shit came from, just as long as it was dope.


Ctrl.
 

CampO

BEAT u DOWN
ill o.g.
I agree with Jclay .............
 

MGTheFuture

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
classic said:
U have touched on a bigger issue

95% of cats out there have no talent, so they will countiue to follow trends and imatate something else instead of being orginal. These cats will countine by neptune and Dre drum kits and try to imate other peoples styles. These are the same cats who are to lazy to create their own music, they jack a 4 bar loop and call it theirs.


Chuuuuuuch.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
jclay12345 said:
cold truth - thank you. that is exactly what I am saying.

DueceMade Ent. - man, I just kind of lost respect for you. Not because you don't see my point, but because you are downing everyone that doesn't see your point. Talkin bout ya'll youngsters and people needing to go back to the drawing board....Who are you? I haven't heard your music on any radio or anything. There is no right way to sample. If you want to spend countless hours on one sound, that is your business. But I would much rather spend hours pubbin and sellin my music on the street getting it out to people. what is it that you want people to respect? I respect a tight beat. I don't care how you made it. If it is tight, it's tight. I never heard anyone say, "Hey that Timbaland beat is super. I especially like the eq and filter on that snare. It really feels up the track. He must have dug for hours to get that. I really respect who he got his sample from." No, but I have heard someone say, "That Timbaland track is tight. That boy is genius on the beats."

Whatever dude, hate me then. Aint gonna change my perspective, and i aint tryin to brainwash fools either, im just recognizing what hiphop is great for and what its not basically. Im trying to have other cats acknowledge that the artform is diminished when u dont even put in the work or even know the source your utilizin in the 1st place. And my bad for callin anybody out that took the youngsters bullshit to heart, i shouldnt have said that and i dont know everyones age by memory but i do kno theres a gang of really young cats on here nowadays that are going bout samplin like that, so in that repsect, my bad, but thats where the comment came from....But yo, dont try to get all "cocky" just cuz I apparently touched some kinda personal note with yer beliefs in hiphop....Go head and state yer beliefs but dont try to call me out with the cliche "who are u kid!?" routine....If you wanna go that route, i could be equally fucking childish and ask you about why i never heard your fantastic music on the radio as well coudnt I?....FUck that, im tired of when ever someone speeks on somethin like this, you always get some dude that wants to use that kinda repsonse as a valid way to state yer claim....If u believe a certain way, then belive it! - and go ahead and say why, but to me thats a fuckin cheap shot.

Whats retarded is hella people all misinterpreted what the fuck i was sayin in first dam place!.....The only cats that honestly got it were Equality, and Clev.....If you wanna understand better what i was talkin bout, go back to the beginnin of the thread and re-read Equalities post.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recaping on one of the biggest misconceptions that alot of people made about what i think is this:

That sampling another beatmaker is wack, and you should put in yer own work.

K, now i could have gone into massive detail about why i said this and the context in which it needs to stay in or else it turns to shit as it already did, but i just assumed most people would see where i was comin from to begin with that comment, i mean, i didnt try to attach any magic tricks to it.

Basically; this is it - YES, i do think its wack to sample another beatmakers already dug samples for one thing, or for that matter snatch a kick, snare, hh, etc.....Stayin within the context of course that one recognizes the fact that anyone and everyone can go buy a sound cd and use one shots on it to make a drum beat (the kind thats commercially available on bigfish for example)....To me that doesnt even count, and shouldnt be included in this argument since this isnt somethin that u sampled in the first place, its more a "set-kit" approach. (and yes, someone sampled those sounds in a studio to make that cd and so yer sampling, ok we get it, lets not got there)....PLease, you gotta remember to try and keep things in the context of some kind of generally known sampling etiqite so to speak.

So when i say its wack to sample premos beats for example, it is because, he made that snare and kick individual that way on his own, even if it was from a sample-cd. This of course is comparible in some respects to what the bands went through to make the records that you sample, but the thing is that were talkin bout a old nonexistant bands piece a vinyl versus a fresh out the box beatmakers song thats still playing on the top-40 for fucks sake.

To me its like: Ok, well i know i can EQ my drums and compress them on my own to give them a particualr color similar to the shit im interested in, but thats where i draw the line....Cuz to simply pop in P-Diddy or somethin and just sample his snares is rediculous....Plus alota hiphop uses the same classic kits, like the Roland 808 sounds...that shit in its self is timeless and u cant even bother includin sounds like that into the argument, they just are hiphop, period. But whats even worse is the fact that anybody can make their drums sound like that particular way with the proper EQing and chopping, or FX for that matter....So why bite another beatmaker????

When this comes to the realm of of already sampled drums, or samples themselves by beatmakers that have the shit on their own album, one could argue its the same cuz if u sample, u bite someones work regaurdless, I agree to an extent, I mean samplings a touchy thing in the first place, but thats the point, since it is a touchy thing - why degrade it more?
 
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