why hiphop changed?

[open mind]

hiphop didnt really changed there still peoples out there that keep the art in good health like the underground and sum of the commercial artist.but the thing that really changed is that FAKE BITCHEZ AND SO CALLED GANGSTA RAPPERZ seem the only that have huge success and this let lots of peepz think thats real hiphop.but they wrong heeheheheh

hiphop is still alive.

 

[StressWon]

hiphop didnt really changed there still peoples out there that keep the art in good health like the underground and sum of the commercial artist.but the thing that really changed is that FAKE BITCHEZ AND SO CALLED GANGSTA RAPPERZ seem the only that have huge success and this let lots of peepz think thats real hiphop.but they wrong heeheheheh

hiphop is still alive.

word. i think it changed, but in the mainstream. as soon as gangsta rap got popular, thats all the labels would push for. I blame NWA for that. And since it got popular, everybody else followed suit. But, if that never happened,,,we wouldnt have the different types of underground acts,,,

 

[ed_sizzahanz]

Record Labels!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[konceptG]

hip hop (on the radio anyways) changed because of record labels desire to sell more records to larger audiences. They found that the more gutter or ignorant the subject matter, the more the pop buying audience will like it. The pop audience listens to the lowest forms of any music. The are interested in instant gratification. They are the types that will buy Brittney and Backstreet before Carlos Santana or Thelonius Monk. They are the types will watch Jerry Springer instead of Meet the Press, Comic View instead of George Carlin, "Soul Plane" and not "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" (subtitled).

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with enjoying a bit of mindless entertainment once in a while, but these people are the types that can't appreciate anything that you have to work to comprehend. For instance, we all know Rakim is the lord of the mic and that The GZA weaves some of the most complex rhymes committed to tape. Neither are platinum selling artists, yet we KNOW they're better than 99% of the MC's on the planet. If either one would drop their skill level to that of Nelly they would sell platinum plus.

These days, the more ignorant the song, the more likely you are to have a platinum hit. Think about the songs on the radio right now: "Laffy Taffy", "Grillz", "I Think They Like Me", "Get Ya Shine On", so on and so forth. Their subject matter is completely stupid. It's made for empty-headed audiences, strictly for the "club mentality" set. Jay Z admitted to dumbing down his lyrics to get sales. This is the only cat I've ever seen that can talk about the same shit song after song and STILL sell records. Today's music is hook driven drivel. Think about it like this: Sir Mix A Lot has skills and is often overlooked when you talk of great MC's. His absolute biggest hit was a completely ignorant song - "Baby Got Back". Catchy hook, mindless subject matter, platinum sales. Most people forget that that was the SECOND single from that album. The first was completely overlooked because it spoke about something ("One Time's Got No Case"). I bought that vinyl the first day it hit the stores, I heard "Baby Got Back" and the first thing that came to my mind was "This shit sucks, if he ever releases it as a single it'll hit big as fuck and he'll have white college chicks singin that shit". Sure enough, that's exactly what happened.

Labels know the formula "ig'nant=$$$", they know that "intelligent" music has a limited audience so they will push stupidity to the masses and leave the good music to its own devices to gain record sales. I think we all liked "The Minstrel Show", it deserved to blow up but it didn't. I guarantee you tho, if LB had released "Cheatin" as their first single, it would STILL be on the radio even though it's a parody of the ig'nant shit that RnB artists are cranking out.


This is why hip hop changed.

"It was the money... it was the fuckin money... alright"

 

[J-ReZyN]

KonceptG - You speak the truth! You nailed that shit, and Stress was right too about gangsta rap being a turning point in hip hop. I just want to add my 2 cents if I could. I think part of the problem also is that most of the young cats coming up today that claim to be hip hop heads, the ones that MTV and Radio target, buy in to all that bullshit they are force fed by the media and the record companies and are too close minded to explore everything else thats out there. If you play them some older underground classics they never heard before, most of these kids dismiss it right away and say its wack. If you wanna call yourself a hip hop head then you gotta know your roots. There's nothing wrong with change. Hip hop needs to continue to change and evolve and break new ground, but open your minds and don't just settle for what the machine is feeding you. Go back, dig deep and explore the history of hip hop and you'll see that there is a whole world of intelligent, soulful, hot shit that you're missing out on. Before hip hop blew up and became mainstream, it was all undergroundand and all about the love of the music. Now, everyone wants money, myself included, but somewhere along the way, money became more important than the music.That's what's killing hip hop, because as others have already stated, it's the dumb shit that sells!

 

[Relic]

I'll cosign to this whole thread so far and I have said this exact same ish in other threads.
Stress is right tho on the NWA thing of which I am a fan.During that time you had the Luther Campbell free speech thing going on and as I have said before when the execs at the top saw the green from ignant ish they stopped calling rap a fad and started pushing it for the green.
I agree that the dumb shit sells because like you said people dont wanna have to think when they listen to music most of them just want to dumb down.I like to think, especially when it comes to rap, because its such a vehicle to get lots of information across to a listener in a short amount of time, I always said hiphop can make a change and lo and behold it has just not for the better currently.
We need to have a competition to see who can make the absolute dumbest F'n ish ever for a song.
I mean you couldnt just go "AHHHHH" on the mic I mean it would have to be like that damn "Step Daddy" song.
You cringe because you know they tried to do that.
I bet you someone here with FL will make millions if they just keep the lyrics stupid enough.
Might be more challanging than you think, when it comes to hiphop most here are kinda "High Brow" with their standards ya know? LOL
Glad I found this place I thought all the real headz were dead.

 

[classic]

kinda tired of seeing these long rants bout this topic

Its simple, hip hop is an artform, and EVERY artform changes & evolves to refeclt the values of a culture at a specific point.... People need to get away from the US vs them mentailtity, check out this blog that Little brother put up. It sums it up perfectly.. Its long but its a good read and should dead this snooty uppity views once and for all...

__________________________________________________________________________
I am the biggest fuckin' hypocrite yo: All Star Weekend 2006


So I was chillin' at the Boost Mobile party in Houston, dancin and watchin Jeezy perform "And Then What" while sippin' some orange drank when it hit me: I am the biggest fuckin' hypocrite yo……or at least that's how I probably appear to most of my fans right now….


Oh, the irony.

When we decided to name our album "The Minstrel Show," I pretty much had it in my mind that we would be misunderstood, misinterpreted, misrepresented and hated on by 'Them.' You see, all artists have an "Us vs. Them" complex when it comes to their careers because we all want what we PERCEIVE ourselves as not having. So best believe that for every LB or Doom who wants love from 'the streets,' there's also a 50 or Jeezy who wants that same respect from 'the true hip-hop niggas.'

And therein lies the irony of the whole "Us vs. Them" mentality: Nobody ever knows what side they're REALLY on, or who their allies are.

If you claim to represent 'Us', what do you do when the carpet is pulled from under you and you discover that *gasp* 'They' are really big fans of your work (i.e., Bun B. bigging up Minstrel Show)? Or even more importantly, what do you do once the tables turn in your favor and you suddenly BECOME one of 'Them" (i.e., Kanye)? Y'all follow me?

Which brings us up to this past NBA All-Star Weekend in Houston….

Now normally, I avoid these kinds of events (i.e. Howard Homecoming, South Beach, etc..) simply because unless I'm working, I have no reason to be there. I don't drank, I don't smoke, I don't luhhh dese hoes (anymore), and I really don't fuck with clubs unless its somebody like Jeff, Rich Medina, Bobbito, or one of my niggas spinnin.... Those star studded 'industry events' really aint my thing…..I'm a 'sit at home and watch my DVArrah' kinda nigga….

So what happened when Tigallo, a self-confessed studio hermit and overall hater of all things that involve any more than 4 people, begrudgingly went out to the biggest weekend in Houston?

He got hit with a flurry of jabs and sucker punches that shattered his pre-conceived notions and left him flat on his hypocritical ass.

It started when we went out to the Atlantic dinner and hooked up with Kev Liles and Fat Joe. It didn't really surprise me to know that Joe was up on our shit, because after all he IS in a little clique called D.I.T.C., who along with Primo, Pete and The Beatminerz, are responsible for damn near all of the classic early 90's hip hop that shaped my career. Nah, that was nothing…

The first surprise of the night came from who?

Mike Jones.

Who?

Mike Jones!

WHO?

I gave Mike a pound and was like, "yo…..I'm glad your hard work is paying off fam, much respect…."

To my surprise, he was like "yo, man…I been bumping y'all shit…..y'all niggas dope…"

Huh? What? © Joeski Love

Again, the whole "Us vs. Them" complex rears its head on both sides. I think Mike was equally as surprised to know that me and Pooh were up on his mixtape shit as well as his cameos with Consequence and Warren G……

But the Mike Jones incident was just a hard right that connected on the chin…

The sucker punch of the night came courtesy of Mr. F. Baby Please Say The Baby himself at the radio station, when out of NOWHERE, Wayne says on the air, 'yo, shout out to Little Brother waitin out in the hallway, them dudes be spittin'…..niggas is dope…'

HUH? WHAT? (c) Joeski Love

All this time I'm thinking Wayne didn't have a clue of who we were…

It got even crazier when we talked out in the hallway and he was like, 'yo, I'm working on Dedication 2 right now….let's do something….." I even told him about my 'He Speaks So Well" blog and how its fucked up that cats consider him one of the best in the South instead of one of the best period. He just kinda laughed and shook his head. I think he's well aware of the bias that a lot of northern cats have against him…

Sooooo kids……….what did I learn from all this?

*sighs*

Niggas love to make generalizations. Yes, even me.

I think my whole experience this past year with "The Minstrel Show" was a textbook lesson on how perception is SO MUCH more important than reality. It's sad but true….

The perception of your average pimped out, gangsta'ed up, ice-grilled rapper is that them niggas are just dope boys who are contributing to the death of 'the culture' one verse at a time, and have no idea about 'real' hip-hop.

The reality is that Gangstalicious and 'nem are probably listening to the same Common/Mos/LB/Roots shit that you are.

Conversely, the 'perception' of Little Brother is that we are true-school hip-hop enthusiasts (read: music snobs), who only listen to 'conscious rap' (whatever the fuck that means….) and turn their noses up at anything dated after 1995.

The REALITY of Little Brother is that in addition to Tribe and De La, we also grew up listening to some of the most violent, misogynist, ignant shit ever like 2 Live Crew and early Rap-A-Lot, and when "Laffy Taffy" dropped last night in the club, niggas was tipsy as hell, laughing our asses off, leanin and rockin with it, and having the time of our lives just like everybody else.

Do I think "Minstrel Show" was a mistake? Absolutely not. It's a record that I'm extremely proud of, and I felt needed to be made.

Do I think people just looked at the title and thought, "Eh……these niggas is on some holier-than-thou, talented tenth shit" and missed the music? Hmmm….possibly so.

And I accept my responsibility on that part….Bun's interview helped me see that. Maybe as an emcee I didn't fully articulate that 'pro-Minstrel Show' doesn't automatically mean 'anti-Get Rich or Die Trying'….its just all about trying to strike a balance between the two..….

Hopefully, our upcoming mixtape with DJ Drama ('Separate But Equal') will help bring cats back down to earth so to speak, and help kick up dust for our next single/video (I'm 90% sure its gonna be "Slow It Down")……. Its just ironic that cats have to come back 'down to earth' because I always considered myself lyrically to be pretty personal and painfully honest with my shit…..

Oh well…..

There's always that Percy Miracles, Yolanda Adams, and T-Pain duet I can hook up if this rap shit don't pan out…..

That would be so fitting for a fuckin hypocrite like me.

Still leanin, and still rockin,

Tigallo, aka Mr. Chic-o-Stic



This has been a Real Nigga PSA(R), sponsored by the Percy Miracles

 

[StressWon]

kinda tired of seeing these long rants bout this topic

And I'm tired of the lame ass history lessons.

 

[konceptG]

Honestly, I DON'T think that "gangsta rap" was the turning point to what we have today. Fr a while during the late 80's and early to mid 90's hip hop coexisted with itself. Cats was open to all forms of hip hop. You could be playing Warren G one minute and Mobb Deep the next. What happened is that ig'nant shit started to draw attention and money. Like I said, Jay Z could regurgitate the same themes in his rhymes over and over and still sell records.

This shit really didn't hit full stride until No Limit and Cash Money started sellin' platinum numbers. Then JayZ hipped himself to the formula and dropped Hard Knock Life V2, then Nelly dropped, Eminem dumbed his shit down a little on "The Slim Shady LP" and continued that downward spiral (only briefly regaining his former "Infinite/Slim Shady EP" self on the 8 Mile soundtrack). Once the formula had proven itself, the labels came full force. "Country Grammer" sold 15 Million world wide, Fiddy and the rest of G-Unit kept it going, and everyone from NYC to LA tried to cash in.

What's fucked up is that during this time, we had excellent releases from the likes of The Roots, Common, Outkast, and the like and with the exception of Outkast it all got overlooked.

Kanye comes on to the scene with some good shit, but turns around and drops the ig'nant anthem "Golddigger", a direct rip of EPMD's song of the same name. Think before you comment that I'm tripin about that song: His more conscious songs (and arguably BETTER songs) that were released as singles were barely a blip compared to the success of "Golddigger".

I thought there was hope for real hip hop to make a stand when Dialated Peoples had a hit with "This Way", and Common charted with "The Corner" and "Go", but alas I was VERY wrong. Last year we saw an explosion of ig'nant shit come out of EVERYWHERE. It was far more than Common could handle alone.

 

[J-ReZyN]

Yo Classic and Stress - respect to you Illmuzik vets - I know y'all musta heard this shit a thousand times before and for that ya got my sympathy, but cut a newbie some slack, I'm just trying to voice my opinion. I thought that's what the Ill forums were about.

Classic - nice post and I feel it. Ya got me lookin at it from a different angle. I think what's trying to be stressed here though is that people are buying into the dumb shit while the meaningful and more intelligent music isn't getting the play or the attention it should.

 

[konceptG]

Classic - nice post and I feel it. Ya got me lookin at it from a different angle. I think what's trying to be stressed here though is that people are buying into the dumb shit while the meaningful and more intelligent music isn't getting the play or the attention it should.

And that's exactly what I'm getting at. I'm not trying to give it an "us vs them" slant to it, I just wish that intelligent music in general would get a chance to shine. We used to hear it on the radio, we used to see the videos but we don't anymore. It's time for the scale to tip back to center so we can have a chance to enjoy all facets of hip hop together.

 

[StressWon]

Yo Classic and Stress - respect to you Illmuzik vets - I know y'all musta heard this shit a thousand times before and for that ya got my sympathy, but cut a newbie some slack, I'm just trying to voice my opinion. I thought that's what the Ill forums were about.

.

naw fam,,I wasn't referrin to yall. I like this thread, plus, I like to see where the newer cats are. You'll see what I mean eventually,,,lol. Respect.

 

[Relic]

Classic that was a good article, you know no matta how I feel about music and the state of hiphop the truth is , it is what it is...

 

[J-ReZyN]

naw fam,,I wasn't referrin to yall. I like this thread, plus, I like to see where the newer cats are. You'll see what I mean eventually,,,lol. Respect.

No doubt Stress! I'm sure in time I'll see this topic for the 100th time and grow tired of it too. You don't know though - I was having this same conversation with one of my boys yesterday and it was still fresh on my mind so I just had to jump in here when I saw this. Peace y'all!

 

[bigdmakintrax]

we all know Rakim is the lord of the mic and that The GZA weaves some of the most complex rhymes committed to tape. Neither are platinum selling artists, yet we KNOW they're better than 99% of the MC's on the planet. If either one would drop their skill level to that of Nelly they would sell platinum plus.

The 18th letter went platinum
http://www.thaformula.com/rakim_-_tha_return_of_tha_mic_god.htm
but GZA as a soloist didnt but he put out the liquid swords joint....and that should have been easily.....but anyhow imma sum it up....much of what is considered really good concious hip hop was a continuation of the knowledge and science from the 80's, there was a whole lot of social issues that were spoken on in the music say from 88-95 or so.....you had Chuck D and Public enemy mostly speaking nothing but hardcore social and racial issues, and sort of showing the radical side with folks like sistah solja, red black and green medallions with africa silouhettes , BDP and "edutainment", Black cop LOL but at the same time or lil before you had De La soul coming out with 3 feet high and rising, also Jungle brothers the jaybees.........but then from out of nowhere these completely raw loop based hip hop beats laced by some west coast gangsta killing rap....yes this is where it began at least I think so....it was so different for me and most of the people I know back in college to hear it the first time, I had classmates from out in oaktown and richmond that brought us the DOC...yep to me that when it started changing because about the same, I think there was another group called above the law that kind of had a style like NWA but I think it may have even been more gutter LOL....anyhow thats when wires started getting crossed up.....everything that was rap at that time was not considered hip hop and thats a real fact......anyhow then about that same time a lot of the south music was popping off but with their own regional flavor.....just like hip hop has its own flavor overseas........but I respect all hip hop in good taste and a message, but some of the this crap that is out has absolutely no business with an Hip or a hop in front of what it is as the genre description..........I think that music evolves, but it must bear at least some resemblance to the originating genre......I feel like evolution of music is inevitable but then thats why new genres form......I think most professional musicians know their music history as far as Jazz or classical musicians and they are very interested to know about it.....because many of the previous styles are implemented into the music and compositions that they write, or play......this is what allows the music and artform to grow but yet not deviate very far from the original formulas that define the genre......I think there is a lot of people in hip hop that either dont know or dont want to know anything about the history of the music genre and art they are trying to either break into or master......that is the sadness of what I see nowadays, its about the "in thing" or cool thing to try and do...or try to get rich...

 

[bodega]

hip hop is not on the radio. like dj premiere says. i agree 100% its all bullshit. mind less garbage.

 

[Relic]

I remember when hiphop was like all breakdance music, the rappin was just part of it,the lyrics then were nothing great either but they just sounded cool with the beats.
They had a cool way of mixin then.

 

[KurtisRich]

Everything's changing. Clothes, technology, music, etc. It's life and life involves changes. That's why hip hop is changing because people and everything around us changes.

 

[Bloodybastid]

Yeah but sometimes change isn't a good thing

 

[Burna]

Yeah but sometimes change isn't a good thing

Ya I agree, shit honestly went down hill. I remeber when actual hip-hop was cats like "Aseop Rock', "SLug", "eyedea", "DJ Abillities", "Sugar Hill Gang". I can go on for ages. Now ever since cats like 50cent and Cam'ron "Hip-Hop" has turned to Rap, and rap has turned into nothing but beef'n bullshit.