UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
But is there really? Supply and demand keeps me from believing there is...
Not to jump on you but, that statement interested me. I believe you have to have that mindset, but in reality, I dont believe its true.
Why do people think business/capitalism is evil? Please discuss.
- Thread starter thedreampolice
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Beat This!The next Beat This! Competition is from November 27-28th!
But is there really? Supply and demand keeps me from believing there is...
Not to jump on you but, that statement interested me. I believe you have to have that mindset, but in reality, I dont believe its true.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Give me an example of a no way out situation. I am sure there are a few, but almost everyone can get out.
7thangel
7th Angel of Armageddon
ill o.g.
keep in mind, we're talking about the world here, not just america. this world, where there's religion and society that can determine your fate. nevermind, someones mental health due to the stress, fatigue, and assault to keep them down. have you checked the stats on the earning power of black women in the u.s.? the affects of racism, sexism, abuse, etc affects them and their prospects? how about women from the first nations, or in your case, native women? we can go on.
it's not about not trying, it's about acknowledging that not everybody has the same chance or any chance. capitalism and the economics behind it is dependent on much more losers than winners.
it's not about not trying, it's about acknowledging that not everybody has the same chance or any chance. capitalism and the economics behind it is dependent on much more losers than winners.
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
Sure, Supply and demand, you are a college grad, entrepreneur, gold digger, and what you supply (knowledge, Service, Trade, Ass) is already filled so there is no demand. Those that do make it out innovate and invent where there is a demand. When there is no more room for your supply what do you do? This applys to every job, trade, Stipend earning Volenteership etc.
Where was the way out for Thousands of NEWLY laid off americans? supply and demand...the corner stone of our economy. If you can tell me a definative way out for anybody unable to get work, you sir, should be a millionaire.
I see 7th angel already answered this, but I wanted to add to it.
Capitialism is an ideaology, like socialism and communism.
All have people that sell things, people have traded and bartered since long before capitalism was ever here. And will do long after its gone.
Business doesnt equal capitalism, capitalism is the privatisation of a countries resources for short term monetary gain. While many of the buyers of a countries resources come from another country. This is basically outsourcing ownership of everything that makes a country valuable. Water, oil, gas, transportation, energy supplies, schools, hospitals all being sold to the highest bidder and then run by the highest bidder.
For example a company like Shell oil can buy a school, and use its influence to adapt the schools curriculum to suit its own purposes, that is very wrong, but capitalism doesnt care about right and wrong, it just cares about profit.
Starting your own business is not capitalism, its business.
Capitalism is buying a failing business for much less than its worth then selling all the assets that company has to make a profit, capitalism allows speculators to destroy greeces economy due to greeces own financial mistakes, but making the problem much worse than it ever would have been, speculators success is the failiure of an economy, because they make money by betting on shares going down
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
Lots of stuff to answer ok
DONT CLOSE THIS THREAD BECAUSE WE DISCUSS RACE!
First off on the racial issues. 7th
"have you checked the stats on the earning power of black women in the u.s.?"
I do think this is horrible and I can't believe that racism is actually still a problem in this day and age but sadly it is, and I saw so much in Indiana I could not believe it. On the converse I do not think anyone getting or losing a job based on race is right. I don't think that the govern says "You have to hire so many minorities" is right. people should get the job based on qualifications PERIOD. And pay should be based on performance, not something a person can't control like race. And trust me if a black women applied for a job at my office and was qualified to do the job there would be no issue question I would hire her and pay fairly. I just hope by the next generation we can get rid of these race issues.
Another quick side note on this issue, I ran a tech firm for years in another city and it was a very white collar professional company. Only white people worked there. I once asked the owner why that is and he said "The minute a black person applies and present himself in a professional way I will hire him." So I started keeping a close watch on the applicants and EVERY black person that came in had worn out saggy jeans on with a baseball cap on sideways, talked slang to the interviewer and basically thuged out. I don't care what race you are that is not going to get you a white collar job. We had a Hispanic man apply who presented himself very well but had NO qualifications, ZERO but said to us "I really want to learn this trade and I will work a few days for free to prove that I am a good worker an can be valuable here" So we said ok and at the end of those two days not only did we pay him for them but we offered him a job and he worked for us for many years. So there is an example of a minority do something creative to learn a trade and get a job, a very good trade that will take care of him the rest of his life. And the owner of the business was thrilled to have him on board.
"capitalism is the privatisation of a countries resources for short term monetary gain."
No its not
The term capitalist refers to an owner of capital rather than an economic system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
All I can say 2GooD Productions is read more about it, because you are factually incorrect.
I am also discussing here is free market Capitalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market
The theory holds that within the ideal free market, property rights are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged solely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. By definition, buyers and sellers do not coerce each other, in the sense that they obtain each other's property rights without the use of physical force, threat of physical force, or fraud, nor are they coerced by a third party (such as by government via transfer payments) [1] and they engage in trade simply because they both consent and believe that what they are getting is worth more than or as much as what they give up. Price is the result of buying and selling decisions en masse as described by the theory of supply and demand.
Free markets contrast sharply with controlled markets or regulated markets, in which governments directly or indirectly regulate prices or supplies, which according to free market theory causes markets to be less efficient.[2] Where government intervention exists, the market is a mixed economy.
In the marketplace the price of a good or service helps communicate consumer demand to producers and thus directs the allocation of resources toward consumer, as well as investor, satisfaction. In a free market, price is a result of a plethora of voluntary transactions, rather than political decree as in a controlled market. Through free competition between vendors for the provision of products and services, prices tend to decrease, and quality tends to increase. A free market is not to be confused with a perfect market where individuals have perfect information and there is perfect competition.
DONT CLOSE THIS THREAD BECAUSE WE DISCUSS RACE!
First off on the racial issues. 7th
"have you checked the stats on the earning power of black women in the u.s.?"
I do think this is horrible and I can't believe that racism is actually still a problem in this day and age but sadly it is, and I saw so much in Indiana I could not believe it. On the converse I do not think anyone getting or losing a job based on race is right. I don't think that the govern says "You have to hire so many minorities" is right. people should get the job based on qualifications PERIOD. And pay should be based on performance, not something a person can't control like race. And trust me if a black women applied for a job at my office and was qualified to do the job there would be no issue question I would hire her and pay fairly. I just hope by the next generation we can get rid of these race issues.
Another quick side note on this issue, I ran a tech firm for years in another city and it was a very white collar professional company. Only white people worked there. I once asked the owner why that is and he said "The minute a black person applies and present himself in a professional way I will hire him." So I started keeping a close watch on the applicants and EVERY black person that came in had worn out saggy jeans on with a baseball cap on sideways, talked slang to the interviewer and basically thuged out. I don't care what race you are that is not going to get you a white collar job. We had a Hispanic man apply who presented himself very well but had NO qualifications, ZERO but said to us "I really want to learn this trade and I will work a few days for free to prove that I am a good worker an can be valuable here" So we said ok and at the end of those two days not only did we pay him for them but we offered him a job and he worked for us for many years. So there is an example of a minority do something creative to learn a trade and get a job, a very good trade that will take care of him the rest of his life. And the owner of the business was thrilled to have him on board.
"capitalism is the privatisation of a countries resources for short term monetary gain."
No its not
The term capitalist refers to an owner of capital rather than an economic system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
All I can say 2GooD Productions is read more about it, because you are factually incorrect.
I am also discussing here is free market Capitalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market
The theory holds that within the ideal free market, property rights are voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged solely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. By definition, buyers and sellers do not coerce each other, in the sense that they obtain each other's property rights without the use of physical force, threat of physical force, or fraud, nor are they coerced by a third party (such as by government via transfer payments) [1] and they engage in trade simply because they both consent and believe that what they are getting is worth more than or as much as what they give up. Price is the result of buying and selling decisions en masse as described by the theory of supply and demand.
Free markets contrast sharply with controlled markets or regulated markets, in which governments directly or indirectly regulate prices or supplies, which according to free market theory causes markets to be less efficient.[2] Where government intervention exists, the market is a mixed economy.
In the marketplace the price of a good or service helps communicate consumer demand to producers and thus directs the allocation of resources toward consumer, as well as investor, satisfaction. In a free market, price is a result of a plethora of voluntary transactions, rather than political decree as in a controlled market. Through free competition between vendors for the provision of products and services, prices tend to decrease, and quality tends to increase. A free market is not to be confused with a perfect market where individuals have perfect information and there is perfect competition.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
"Where was the way out for Thousands of NEWLY laid off americans? supply and demand...the corner stone of our economy. If you can tell me a definative way out for anybody unable to get work"
I can actually if you want me to expand I will but it is long winded.
I can actually if you want me to expand I will but it is long winded.
Free markets are just a smokescreen for the g8 countries to maintain their domination of the world markets.
Instead of reading what the theory is, i look at the practice.
Free markets allow companies like walmart over there and tescos over here to put the small business out of business, good old competition and free markets. These companies make huge demands of their suppliers and often put suppliers out of business with their demand for low prices. Its all ultimately reliant on DEMAND and being able to SUPPLY that demand. Without the demand the business is dead. Small business cannot compete with powerful competition from these giants that can undercut the smaller business due to bulk buy discounts.
There were supposed to have been anti monopoly laws and yet i see more monopolies. Take clear channel for instance.
You seem to be caught up in the dream of what capitalism is defined as, rather than what it actually manifests as.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
"Small business cannot compete with powerful competition"
I disagree, I HAVE competed against wallmart as a small business and I won!
When walmart comes in to town small business has to step up there game, change strategies provide amazing customer service and really crush it. But what I see happen most of the time is that the small business owner wants to keep things the way they always have been and they just get lazy and complain Sorry if you do that competition will kill you.
Now I am no walmart fan mind you but they do allot of good things. They are credited with fighting inflation, they employ many people that would not have jobs elsewhere.
I DO NOT like that they force vender's to outsource to China. And many vender's stop doing business with Walmart for that reason. The big issue is choice. Walmart is so large because the American people make it so. They shop there, they support it. If customers stopped giving walmart BILLIONS of dollar they would be forced to change, but I think its though to call them evil because they are shrewed.
Freedom is why this country was started and that includes religion, race, and markets.
As said earlier America is great because you truly can make somthin out of nothin. Not many other countries will let you move up like that.
Guys I am just telling you now that I know many business men and several millionaires they are simply the nicest and most generous people I have ever met, the stereotype is just wrong.
I had one more thought on the race issue. I do think that since it is more difficult for an African american female to get a job in some places, then I would contend that business ownership is even MORE important for the African american and Hispanic groups. All I know is this. THE MOST LIKELY WAY OUT OF POVERTY IS ENTREPRENEURSHIP!
I disagree, I HAVE competed against wallmart as a small business and I won!
When walmart comes in to town small business has to step up there game, change strategies provide amazing customer service and really crush it. But what I see happen most of the time is that the small business owner wants to keep things the way they always have been and they just get lazy and complain Sorry if you do that competition will kill you.
Now I am no walmart fan mind you but they do allot of good things. They are credited with fighting inflation, they employ many people that would not have jobs elsewhere.
I DO NOT like that they force vender's to outsource to China. And many vender's stop doing business with Walmart for that reason. The big issue is choice. Walmart is so large because the American people make it so. They shop there, they support it. If customers stopped giving walmart BILLIONS of dollar they would be forced to change, but I think its though to call them evil because they are shrewed.
Freedom is why this country was started and that includes religion, race, and markets.
As said earlier America is great because you truly can make somthin out of nothin. Not many other countries will let you move up like that.
Guys I am just telling you now that I know many business men and several millionaires they are simply the nicest and most generous people I have ever met, the stereotype is just wrong.
I had one more thought on the race issue. I do think that since it is more difficult for an African american female to get a job in some places, then I would contend that business ownership is even MORE important for the African american and Hispanic groups. All I know is this. THE MOST LIKELY WAY OUT OF POVERTY IS ENTREPRENEURSHIP!
What I will agree with you on is the fact that we are blessed to live in rich nations where we can be afforded enough freedom to set out on our own and try and make a go of it. Work hard enough and you can achieve your goals. There is profit to be made in many places in the world, as long as you can find the demand and fill it.
The very nature of cut throat business practice is what is evil. But it is the nature of business, business doesnt necessarily have morals when they can get in the way of profit margins. Do you do what you know to be wrong to win, and in business unless you say yes, you will lose. This case will not always arise, it arises due to competition, will you do what it takes to keep the business in business. This is where the nature of business can be bad, but on the flip side, competition can create innovation in business strategy. There is a good and bad side to everything, because there are good and bad people.
Nothing is really inherently evil, its just that some of us are.
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
If it is practical, pleases do share. I can use the money.... and fame, for revolutionizing america lol
Business can't be evil per se, trading is what we do, it's part of the game since the dawn of mankind.
But the purist capitalistic approach as propagated by Friedmann and the Chicago school is a dangerous one. The basic services of a society cannot be subjected to stock markets and speculation. It might work on paper but they left human nature out of the equation (very much like socialist theorists once did I believe). Also I think, there have to be rules that companies of a certain size cannot act against public interest, as they have achieved their position only with the help of the public, manpower. Too much centralized money and power is dangerous and there have to be regulations.
selling beats for 500 bucks is cool tho.
my 2 cents
But the purist capitalistic approach as propagated by Friedmann and the Chicago school is a dangerous one. The basic services of a society cannot be subjected to stock markets and speculation. It might work on paper but they left human nature out of the equation (very much like socialist theorists once did I believe). Also I think, there have to be rules that companies of a certain size cannot act against public interest, as they have achieved their position only with the help of the public, manpower. Too much centralized money and power is dangerous and there have to be regulations.
selling beats for 500 bucks is cool tho.
my 2 cents
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
For sure, getting humans involved always screw things up lol
"Do you do what you know to be wrong to win, and in business unless you say yes, you will lose. "
I disagree on this point, Look at Warren Buffet he is all ethics and has won. I think you will find that businesses that are ethical actually tend to do better.
UNORTHODOX here is how to get a job fast and for more money.
First some facts 90% of all jobs available are not advertised and are only known internally to the company. If you answer a job post or newspaper ad you are already in competition with other applicants making it hard to get attention. What you need to do is remove that competition. Also small business in America creates over 150k new jobs per week. So there are jobs out there.
Now the strategy. Most of the job search is actually self reflection, what are you good at? What do you love? Lets really think about this.
Second pick 40 companies that have the job that you want and would be good at, find out everything about the company and the NAME of the hr manager.
Write an intro letter (yes in the mail not email!) to the HR manager saying that you will be sending your resume in a few days. Getting a job is actually a sales process so you want to get your name in there head!
A few days later send your cover letter and resume. Make sure this is also address to the NAME of the HR manager and not "To whom it may concern" Also remember that a resume is a sales letter to get an interview and will NOT get you a job.
A few days latter call the HR manager on the phone and introduce yourself and ask for a time to get together and discuss any opportunities. Don't leave a message, get them on the phone call back every day if need be. You now have three points of contact for them to remember you and believe me they will. Now you should have at least one but hopefully multiple interviews. How to interview is probably for another post. But using this strategy WILL work and will make you more money and get you a job you enjoy. This is also the cliff notes version I would be more than willing to help anyone through this process. Also I have used this process several times. I have even had several interviews when the company was not hiring but they really wanted to get to know ME!
Anyway hope that helps and makes sense. Let me know if I need to clarify.
"Do you do what you know to be wrong to win, and in business unless you say yes, you will lose. "
I disagree on this point, Look at Warren Buffet he is all ethics and has won. I think you will find that businesses that are ethical actually tend to do better.
UNORTHODOX here is how to get a job fast and for more money.
First some facts 90% of all jobs available are not advertised and are only known internally to the company. If you answer a job post or newspaper ad you are already in competition with other applicants making it hard to get attention. What you need to do is remove that competition. Also small business in America creates over 150k new jobs per week. So there are jobs out there.
Now the strategy. Most of the job search is actually self reflection, what are you good at? What do you love? Lets really think about this.
Second pick 40 companies that have the job that you want and would be good at, find out everything about the company and the NAME of the hr manager.
Write an intro letter (yes in the mail not email!) to the HR manager saying that you will be sending your resume in a few days. Getting a job is actually a sales process so you want to get your name in there head!
A few days later send your cover letter and resume. Make sure this is also address to the NAME of the HR manager and not "To whom it may concern" Also remember that a resume is a sales letter to get an interview and will NOT get you a job.
A few days latter call the HR manager on the phone and introduce yourself and ask for a time to get together and discuss any opportunities. Don't leave a message, get them on the phone call back every day if need be. You now have three points of contact for them to remember you and believe me they will. Now you should have at least one but hopefully multiple interviews. How to interview is probably for another post. But using this strategy WILL work and will make you more money and get you a job you enjoy. This is also the cliff notes version I would be more than willing to help anyone through this process. Also I have used this process several times. I have even had several interviews when the company was not hiring but they really wanted to get to know ME!
Anyway hope that helps and makes sense. Let me know if I need to clarify.
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
This may work for you or me, but what if EVERYONE is doing it. (remember "theres a way out for everyone"?) Again the supply will exceed the demand.
Where are you getting your facts from btw? I find it hard to believe america has this many jobs (per week mind you) and so many people are still unemployed. Especialy with such a big concerted effort to 1) create jobs and 2) find jobs. Why were creating jobs such a commanding issue if so many were readily available? ...conspiracy theorists need proof too, otherwise its speculation.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
ha ha
"but what if EVERYONE is doing it."
Everyone won't people are to lazy and this takes lots of work.
for proof go to Craigslist, and monster and look at the thousands of job postings and again 90% of all jobs are NEVER advertised. We are talking several billion people 150k in a week for a whole country seems reasonable. I am sure the number goes up and down a bit but that has been the average for the last 10 years.
"but what if EVERYONE is doing it."
Everyone won't people are to lazy and this takes lots of work.
for proof go to Craigslist, and monster and look at the thousands of job postings and again 90% of all jobs are NEVER advertised. We are talking several billion people 150k in a week for a whole country seems reasonable. I am sure the number goes up and down a bit but that has been the average for the last 10 years.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
5th Sequence
Hip Hop Head, Certified
*takes off reading glasses*
DAMN. great points on both sides. Can we put a poll in here to vote for 2good or dreampolice?
or an ultimate beat battle titled "EconomicsTHAT" to settle it all in a cut throat walmart style instrumental supplier... small business.. rape...... round robin... beat tourney
lol too far?
DAMN. great points on both sides. Can we put a poll in here to vote for 2good or dreampolice?
or an ultimate beat battle titled "EconomicsTHAT" to settle it all in a cut throat walmart style instrumental supplier... small business.. rape...... round robin... beat tourney
lol too far?
