Who's in Control?

[dacalion]

Aight peeps, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm sure I have the answer to this question but I wonder how many of you are being fooled and how many of you are really on point. A response to another thread that I posted brought this question to my mind. This is a very simple question with no hidden meanings behind it...

"Who is in control of hip-hop?"

holla back,--dac

 

[Sober]

the fans period! they buy the music, listen, and dance to it.

 

[Ash Holmz]

answer # 1...the real answer)... middle aged white guys..and corny off beat dancin white women......(I know this by fact...ive seen firsthand what these exec guys do and how they do it...they are in complete control of almost every aspect of the business)

answer # 2....the idealistic answer).... you as an individual....hip hop is defined by individuality and expression....so in essence hip hop cannot be controlled as it is a culture, a state of mind, and an outlet for expression.. hip hop's definition only goes as far as the people who represent and support it. We can all contibute and give to hip hop, but hip hop itself cannot be controlled or or even defined by any strech of the imagination..in fact we are all currently BEING Controlled by hip hop as that is what we love and are driven by

 

[sent_inc]

Corporate america

 

[vitaminman]

Hey,

From the point of view of someone who doesn't listen to hip hop, it looks like MTV and a couple of big names are in control (Jay-Z, Dre, Busta, Puff Daddy, etc.), they've got their fingers in EVERYTHING.

Nick

 

[Cold Truth]

hmmmm.... big money (whoever has it at the time), major media outlets and then the fans who are willing to buy their product, in my opinion in that order. the problem with saying htat puffy, jay z, etc., have any power at all is the fact that they still play it by the rules of the the corporate suits that they are partnered with. they do not have any control of their own merit; they dont play by their own rules..... from a worldly perspective.

BUT.....

to be honest with you, in my eyes God is in control of everything AT THE END OF THE DAY; however, we have all been given a measure of power with which to affect the things that surround our daily lives, and in the end we will all see who is REALLY in control. these corrupt suits (and many others...) who pull the strings on our little rap heros are puppets themselves, so how much control do they really have? i have more control over the course of my life and my destiny (that includes hip hop, my future success within it, radio play, exposure, everything..... i dont care what people say the formula is) then these guys have over it, even though they think they do, because of who and what i put my faith in, and it certainly isnt them. to be honest they have ZERO control to me. God does and i do. end of story for me.

 

[Equality 7-2521]

i agree with what Holmzini said. i think that Hiphop is an idea which is in the mind. Nobady can lay claim to an idea of Hiphop's nature.

however.....

fans are the ones who control which artists are financially succesful in Hiphop. and many of these fans are controlled by the media.

 

[dacalion]

Well, there are many different ways to look at this simple question but I'm looking for the very bottom line. Who's in control of hip-hop? The comsumers are. It's quite simple, if we stop buying garbage, they'll stop making garbage. When hip-hop went commercial it changed alot of things. One of the most important things that changed was it's ability to profit. Sells went though the roof and a new "culture of hip-hop" was born. Everybody wants to make dough. That's what it's all about from the producer to the promoter. Rappers had the choice of keeping it underground and live off of underground royalties OR go mainstream and live off mainstream royalties. Most of them chose to go mainstream and get the money, even some of the ones that we still think of as underground artist. It used to be strickly hip-hop heads that controlled hip-hop, now it's anyone who spends money on a rap CD. Thats just a part of moving up to a BIGGER audience. You have to give the people what they want in order to get what you want out of them. So when hip-hop starts slowing down and everybody starts screaming that hip-hop is dying, it's only because the comsumers aren't getting what they want and they are loosing interest. Hip-Hop will never die, mainstream hip-hop may, but the culture will live on. Believe that! I predict a whole new format of hip-hop in the near future, we're gonna see new styles, new flavor and new techniques from producing to promoting and you can count on one thing for sure...mainstream wants hip-hop as bad as hip-hop wants mainstream.

HOLLA BACK,--dac

 

[Cold Truth]

hmmmm.. i agree completely dac, save for one thing- the consumers are divided even among themselves. i myself represent a minority, being that i have equal disdain for both sides of the mainstream/"underground" coin. most consumers are getting what they want, because they are buying it up with abandon (lets not even get into the sales issue...) and gettin down in the clubs to certain things, causing dj's to spin certain people constantly which in turn serves to generate the sales for the artist. the fact that the segment of people with no real love for hip hop itself far outwiegh those of us who are passionate about this is the thing that waters it down the most. remember when craig mac went platinum? you think that would go over today? obviously we have outgrown the style within commercial media..... but the consumers themselves have undergone a great change. i personally think that at some point there will be an artist or two who obliterate the formula and become a major success in spite of these new consumers..... ah whatever its late and i am just rambling along now...

 

[Equality 7-2521]

decalion...the only thing consumers control is who makes money from Hiphop.

but, for example, nobody is in control of the MEANING of Hiphop (anymore)

I think you have to define the meaning of "control" before you ask your initial question

out

 

[sent_inc]

Guys wake up. Big business tell us whats hot or whats not. They pay the radio station big money to play the same songs over and over and over. They force music on us. Thats why independent artists can not succeed.

 

[dacalion]

Control means to regulate, and any business thats based on sales is regulated by it's comsumers (the people who spend their money). Wal-Mart is the No.1 retailer in the world due to it's sales. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world due to sales. Hip-Hop is giving us what we're getting right now because of it's sales. Like sent_inc said, we are force fed alot of what we're getting these days. People who are the "so called" leaders of Hip-Hop don't control our taste in music or our money, they control the "influence" aspect of it. It would be in their best interest to influence us to buy their music and clothes not ours. That is why it seems that PD, JayZ and all the CEO's are in control but they aren't. WE the comsumers are "in control" and like Stone Cold says..."and thats just the bottom line". If the consumers stop buying it, they won't stop selling it, they will change it up.

--dac

 

[nobodyfamous]

the only people you see in the spotlight who have any sort of control is diddy, dame dash, jay z, la reid. then you have folks like russell simmons. these are really the only african americans with any sort of weight in the industry, im sure im missing some, but u get the picture. the rest of the major labels are white owned by huge corps. but you have to also think, these labels are after POPULAR music, so thats basically all you see on tv and hear on radio, and what everyone usually likes. there is still tru hip-hop out there, it is underground and its and endangered species. in these times, its not about true anymore, its about money.

 

[dacalion]

Here's the deal...
Sober said "the fans" - BINGO!
Holmzini said "middle aged white guys"...(lmao) - they control the influence.
sent said "corperate america" - control influence
vitaminman said "JayZ, PD, Dre..." - control influence
Truth said "comsumers, (with some stipulations) - BINGO! (kinda)
Mr. Messenger said "fans" but then said that the media controls the fans" - I think the media "influences" the fans.
pboyproducer said "PD, DD, JZ and russell simmons" - they control influence.

The point I'm trying to make is that "WE" (the comsumers) control hip-hop. I'm not talking about the culture or the nature, I'm talking about the business. We have the key to it's success and it's key to failure. That key is the "money" that we spend when we buy a CD or buy their clothes. They have control over the "influence" of what we buy. If we stopped buying even under their influence, they would have to change the format or get out the business.

I'm not trying to call anyone out or say that you're wrong for what you think because everything that I've said is based on my opinion and knowledge of sales and promotion. I am just trying to shed some light on "who is really in control".

peace to my brothers,--dac

 

[DJlow2]

dont forget those parental advisory stickers...

hahheheh

-Dj Low 2

 

[MarkN]

its the fans at the end of the day if we didnt buy the middle aged hite blokes wouldnt make any money so however muchthey think they are in control, they're not we are !

 

[God]

Yes I am in control... just kidding... well, in reality, I kind of am...

The media conglomerates number few at the top and are a consortium of multinational corporations whose subsidiaries, the record companies, are continually pushed to trim the fat off their artist roster whilst remaining profitable even in these tough times. Thus, the best bet for many major labels is to invest in their current talent rosters of superstars like Beyonce, and also develop new cookie-cutter bands albeit hip-hop, rock, etc., in order to give the consumer music that is created with money invested at a lower risk than trying to break something "completely new" and not being able to break even on the investment.

It is a business, and profit is a necessity, the lowest probability of losing on an investment is dealing with superstars proven to sell, or developing bands that sound like what is mainstream right now. Also, there are studies and tests done on study groups in order to assess what the people would like, and many people tested from these demographic studies like the garbage you hear on the radio and on MTV.

Also, there are different psychological profiles that media companies cater to, and these profiles are usually angry males, or hypersexualized female images, both of these are evident on MTV and also other teen to preteen media outlets. It's quite sickening, but it is the game.

Also, there is a new push to cater to baby boomer generations (like your parents) to repurchase their favourite music, that is a big market as well.

All in all, the consumer thinks that they really have power, which they do, but are moulded by the images they are bombarded with since childhood, and these images make you align with various social groups, all of whom are studied by record companies, and try to predict the next trend.

So, that's who's in control. Don't be naive about it. But you do have a choice by purchasing or not purchasing. How you were normalised to make that choice is specific to what you were presented during your formative years.

Sincerely,
God

 

[dacalion]

I posted this question back in 2003...7 yrs ago! So much has changed and yet its still the same. Obviously there was problem with hip hop back in 03.

 

[Sucio]

And the problem still remains in 2010....

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Yo, anyone heard from G? he hasnt posted in forever.