Which producer do you resemble the most??

[Lex]

naw man,,don't go there,,,them cats are pretty nice.

LOL, man I wasn't going anyweher near there....I'm really into pretty much all of the Def Jux artists. I was just trying to give a completeley unbaised view - i.e. I think he is entitled to think the artists are shit, but judging any label for that matter and simply ruling all their artists as 'shit' just isn't very fair.

 

[Vince]

for it to be a bandwagon, it would mean that no def jux artist has any skill and they dont offer anything admirable.

Bandwagon: When someone adopts a popular point of view for the primary purpose of recognition and/or acceptance by others.

Okay, I was wrong when I assumed that you were on the bandwagon. But "most" of the people(in my opinion) that listen to Def Jux/Anticon and at the same time praise it as the sound of the Hip-Hop culture. They're people who really don't know shit about hip-hop and they've just adopted theese artists as their favorite rappers as they are viewed upon as "real hip-hop" and "cool underground indie rappers". In fact, my biggest problem with Def Jux/Anticon is their following.

I'm sorry if you felt disrespected. Cause it was aimed towards the music you listen to, and not towards you personally. But I don't see how theese relatively new artists can be anyone's primary influence. In my opinion this shows that one got relatively little knowledge about the hip-hop culture, hip-hop music and it's history.

I only react in this way cause of my love for hip-hop and in my opinion Sage Francis is as much as a threat to hip-hop as Nelly.

And in the words of PMD:
No talk or playing, sucker MCs I be slaying/
Get off the bandwagon, you know what I'm saying /

 

[Agent Smith]

ok, good shit.

since you didnt hurl insults back i feel like i can respond. the general question was who are your influences. i took this to mean who influences your sound. If the question was who's most important/influential in hip hop, my answers might have been different. As far as them being new, that's exactly whats interesting. whether or not they keep integrity in what they do is up to the individual's opinion. Simply because they are doing something different gives us the opportunity to build on with that integrity, which needs to be done to advance the art of hip hop. I don't think someone's influences have to have a classic sound in order to be valid. influences can come from anywhere, new or old. Also, it doesnt mean we have to completely emulate our influences...that wouldn't do any good because we would be running in circles and thats where biters come from.

i agree, def jux is not end-all be-all "sound" of hip hop today, but it is a respectable facet of the multi-layered art that is hip hop. and plus, if you listen to most of these guys, (songs, interviews) they often do give dap to the classic cats and they'll most likely say that they are continung on in the tradition of innovation (whether they do it effectively is also up to the individual's opinion). Its really the fault of the journalists and critics who seperate people like anticon and def jux from other brands of hip hop with bullshit labels like "emo-rap" or "intelligent/nerd-rap"...that opens a door to seperation and an opportinuty for ultra-cool white bread hipsters to cash in on the undeniable appeal of rap while still saving face and not opening themselves up to racial/social critisizm, and have "instant credibility" at the same time. Another thing is that although i personally draw a lot of inspiration from some of these guys, it doesn't mean i don't have appreciation for others...and i do listen to quite a lot of hip hop besides def jux.

Nelly is a threat to hip hop because he brings nothing new to the table, has nothing to say, glorifies degradation of women and profits form it. I think what you're saying is that Sage is a threat because new cats in hip hop may get the idea that that's the true sound of hip hop when in reality its just a facet, and misrepresent hip hop accordingly. The thing is, if you look at it as just one of the many hands of hip hop, and not all that hip hop has to offer, theres nothing wrong with branching out as he does. to all his own though.

 

[Vince]

You make a valid point.

But I'm one of thoose who feel that hip-hop can evolve, but it can't stray away from it's core, it's pure essance. And when I say that, I don't talk about hip-hop as a philosophy or as a cultural phenomenon, but about hip-hop music. Something, that I feel, already has a defined sound. And when you stray to far away from that, it stops being hip-hop music.

Some people can say "well, this is how hip-hop sounds to me. so this is hip-hop to me." and I don't agree with them since hip-hop is something that's defined, and not one's personal opinion.

...and the point is.

When I listen to stuff that Sage Francis does, it just isn't hip-hop. You can't say that it's hip-hop. You CAN'T bundle everything up and go "oh, all of this is hip-hop, hurray. let's be a family".

I mean back in the days when N.W.A and the whole West Coast gangsta scene blew up, people would seperate Hip-hop music(Rap) and Gangsta Rap. They would seperate Rap, and Miami Bass, and so forth. Now it's all "Hip-Hop".

And I belive that Def Jux/Anticon and it's followers belives that anything goes when it comes to hip-hop (just as the radio listening "teenie boppers"). And the only thing that matters is how "underground and indie" it is. And in hip-hop music, it doesn't work that way. Anything doesn't go. So it doesn't matter if it's Nelly or Sage Francis to me, but I hate the fact that Sage Francis is generally more accepted and considered "real hip-hop" while Nelly is a "pop ass no good commerical rapper".

Personally I'd rather listen to Nelly than Sage.