Where do we go from here?

[Cold Truth]

well, nas took it there for a minute conceptually.... second childhood was an ill idea, but he flipped it in such a generic way lyrically,.. like when he sais "she's in her second childhood" i'm like, ok, whatever happened to subtlety? concepts like that are better alluded to, and when you come out and say "now he's in his second childhood" its like there was a creative block there, so that instead of skillful descriptions completing the task, its like "in case you didnt get it...." and never mind the fact that the title says it all in regards to the theme. ..... any how i think that it is things like this that get overlooked in writing.

how about studying up on the way they did things in the classical era? production wise, look at the four seasons.... vivaldi took that into four distincitve moods that flowed flawlessly together...nas once again, the guy who did the beat for "one mic" did an excellent job (am i the only one who recognizes this as an obvious reinterpritation of "in the tonight"?) of telling the story with the beat. hip hop can stand to use real choruses and bridges as a staple and not a rarity..... but that doesnt mean tht other formats do not have a place.

 

[T-Dash]

Hmmm...I dont completely agree with all aspects of this. Alot of the underground emcees that spit battle style lyrics are being very creative with what they're saying and focusing their rhymes on make witty punchlines and getting the effects (eg. "We make headlines like a cordoroid pillow"). So they're not really in it to make a point, they're flexing their skills and proving that they can rhyme better than the mainstream.

Plus, it depends what artists you buy when considering the content. There are a few artists out their that dont go into the thug shit and don't feel the need to define themselves through what they wear, what they do, etc. Although rapping about non-hiphop related things is a novel idea, the real question is, who is actually gonna be interested in hearing a track about a particular car? It just sounds like it'd end up as a corny radio advert trying to capitalise on the success of hiphop. On the other hand, artists like Dead Prez talk on political issues and people aren't particulary interested. So I ain't really expecting a major change in the music really, I think it'll just evolve but stay reasonably similar to how it is now. Cause when it comes down to it...is the stuff that NWA made really that different to the stuff that Mobb Deep would spit about and is it that much different from the kinda stuff you'll hear 50 Cent spitting about now? Its similar content just slightly evolved. I think thats how it'll continue with a couple of new sub-genres appearing every so often to either fail or just mix into the underground scene. I personally feel that with so much money in the game, the liklihood of people experimenting with new things will decrease and artists will just go for their piece of the pie wit the exceptions of those that love the underground and don't wanna go mainstream.

 

[Cold Truth]

yeah, they are proving that "they can rhyme better than the mainstream" but thats just the thing- thats the whole focus. they might not be out to make any real point, but they are still just as mindless as say, little john. you can sit in your room for hours and come up with some ill wordplay, but at the end of the day you still suck as an artist. these guys usually make horrible albums with beats that all sound the same, and they all are doing the same things and saying the same things, which comes down to it being "real hip hop" because the mainstream isnt. these guys need to really get a life because they are only different in the theme of their music.

as far the song about a car, i personally dont think its a great idea, but look at air force ones by nelly? thats the lamest song and everyone eats it up. girls love it for some stupid reason. the car song would probably go double platinum if you put a bouncy synth beat to it.

as far as content, yeah, it probably WILL stay exactly the same, it will be the same ignorant mentality that has had for the last 15 years, and this will prevail. but there will be those precious few who come along and provide something of substance and just be different.

the problem is that there are a lot of heads who just want to be mainstream so they can be like the mainstream because the mainstream looks so rewarding...... BECAUSE THEY ARE AFFECTED BY WHAT THEY SEE AND HEAR BY THESE GUYS. they are driven by the lifestyle and mentality that these rappers present to them.

 

[Copenhagen]

I think Europe is doing a good job at creating new things and trying to "keep it real", where USA is caught up in corporate america and everyone is using Hip-Hop to make a dollar, because the money is there. Very little money is to be found in the European market so only a few people try to do commercial stuff in an attempt at making it big, which is a good thing...for the same reason, I don't think that american Hip-Hop will change before the mainstream takes a break from it and jumps on the bandwagon of another culture...not until then will there be any room for people to sit down and find ways to make Hip-Hop evolve.

Going back to Outlandish, glad to see they're making it. I know Aischa has been no. 1 in Germany for some weeks and that the tour they did with Busta Rhymes helped them a lot.
I remember them saying something like "if we made the same as any other US rap group, we'd be on 1 in a million, so why would people pick us". I guess, staying true to their origins and incorperating that into their music has given them a fresh sound that gave them a head start.

God, you're right, I'm sure only a few wil ever admit that the Neptunes and Timbaland sounds are much like that of earlier European Dance/Club music.

 

[Cold Truth]

most of us in the states havent heard those songs, so we couldnt agree with you. i would certainly take your word for it, because hip hop has always borrowed from other elements.

 

[T-Dash]

Hmmm....not sure I agree still with the underground artist thing. Ill punchlines are not what they're always about. Take Tonedeff for example, prolly one of the best rappers in the industry, he writes dope lyrics, has awsome song concepts, amazing delivery and makes dope beats that are always different. Cunninlynguists are very similar, Kno is prolly one of the best producers in the states right now...but being on the underground not a lot of people hear him. They have some of the best song concepts imaginable and their lyrics are sharp and witty and the list of artists goes on.

The problem is, underground cats now get stereotyped as uncreative and nothing but good lyrics, but thats not true. Often its due to label loyalty, not wanting to be part of the mainstream, the majors only wanting people like Nelly and 50 Cent or because their image isn't marketable. Its only a myth really that underground artists drop half assed albums with no content. I don't denny that often people like E F@mm and the Demigodz have made drops that were more battle orientated, but thats because its what they enjoy doing or because they have such good material that it needs to go somewhere. Bah...anyways, its not really that important...the only thing that can really change an opinion is seeing it for yourself. A good example of a dope underground album is Cunninlynguists - Southernunderground...cop it cause its tight.

I agree that Neptunes and Timbaland use a lot of European influences. Alot of the stuff that would get played on the radio over here (from the electric/dance genre) have a lot of similarites with their stuff.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Originally posted by God
Copenhagen, I agree with you, a lot of the Neptunes' stuff has been heard in European dance music before, and also Timbaland's sounds. The sad thing is, I don't think many people are willing to accept that account.

I usually don't argue with GOD but I do not agree with this I doubt they stole the music or patterns from EuroDance??????.....their patterns if any thing sound like some of the patterns you may have found in the early and mid eighties looking for the perfect beat planet rock and Afrikaa bambaata type patterns or soulsonic force type patterns slowed down and mixed with basic 1 & 2 then exploited by changing the snare drops etc and bringing back the good ol clap mixed with a snare and filtered......now don't get me wrong for what you may think is the resemblance to the euro dance music you may find they actually borrowed patterns from early house and early hip hop and disco...that's more like it ok and sped it up...??????.....now maybe some of the sound or soundsets might be similiar or identical...we know that can happen...but I doubt they got their ideas for laying the hip hop patterns....could be... but doubtful...they tend to have reached back to the eighties and either sped up the patterns and etc....

 

[Copenhagen]

BigD, I think both of us referred mainly to the sounds and soundsets and the patterns of their synths.