Warzone Beat Battle - November 11-12, 2022

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Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 670
Any criticisms for me? I'm curious to find out?

Nice beat, is that a sample or something you played? that piano.

I'd probably have that sample playing center though. It just makes me feel a little lopsided listening to it. I think it'd sit great in the center too.

Got no real qualms about the mix tho, the track has a very oldschool aesthetic and I think the mix decisions suit that.

Nice stuff
 
Beat is dope. Love it.

Maybe only thing I'd change is the left panned sound that comes in, maybe i'd have it more central, or more like 'stereo'. Otherwise, dope beat. Would have got my vote if I got there!!!

Good work, brother.

Thanks man, yeah I’m still fuckin about with panning as @2GooD Productions kindly shared a pic of panning instruments however I need to use my ear for hiphop and not blindly follow the diagram as I’m not in a hall with an orchestra

Appreciate the feedback and good job taking that bronze off me, damn! Next time.
 

V.J. Retro

The silent beat assassin
Thanks for the input guys. I've been reading some materials that suggests to always keep the bass, kick and snare at the center but pan the melodies and background sounds. Now that I think about it, they might be suggesting that if you're going to have someone rap over the beat and not if it's just an instrumental.
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 670
Thanks man, yeah I’m still fuckin about with panning as @2GooD Productions kindly shared a pic of panning instruments however I need to use my ear for hiphop and not blindly follow the diagram as I’m not in a hall with an orchestra

Appreciate the feedback and good job taking that bronze off me, damn! Next time.

I kinda question the use of these mixing diagrams, I feel they can largely do more harm than good;

- either people are too new that they'll read the diagrams, and then just start boosting eq in every element it said to etc (which more than likely will just be detrimental)
- or, people are too experienced to really be needing this and should be focussing on their ears/listening.

For example on the frequency ones, it'll say like "boost 3k for *PRESENCE*". And someone will go "oh, well i want my pianos to have presense, so I'll boost that" etc, when maybe the pianos already had presence or maybe even had too much.

Similarly maybe with panning things it might say like "pan xyz instrument 75% left", but if that instrument is providing a key/main musical function, you'll likely want it more centred or stereo.

It all depends song to song, sound to sound, mix to mix.

I'm feeling inspired to make a quick mix guide.

You need to remember as much science is involved in mixing, mixing is an Art. Probably a dark Art, but still.
 
I kinda question the use of these mixing diagrams, I feel they can largely do more harm than good;

- either people are too new that they'll read the diagrams, and then just start boosting eq in every element it said to etc (which more than likely will just be detrimental)
- or, people are too experienced to really be needing this and should be focussing on their ears/listening.

For example on the frequency ones, it'll say like "boost 3k for *PRESENCE*". And someone will go "oh, well i want my pianos to have presense, so I'll boost that" etc, when maybe the pianos already had presence or maybe even had too much.

Similarly maybe with panning things it might say like "pan xyz instrument 75% left", but if that instrument is providing a key/main musical function, you'll likely want it more centred or stereo.

It all depends song to song, sound to sound, mix to mix.

I'm feeling inspired to make a quick mix guide.

You need to remember as much science is involved in mixing, mixing is an Art. Probably a dark Art, but still.

Yeah, mixing is an art alright, and you could give the same exact track and stems to 3 random mixing engineers, and they won't produce the exact same either, that's the beauty of music and individual tastes and styles.

I only use those diagrams as a reference if I feel the track is busy instrumentally but realistically, I think most of us can tell if it at least sound good or not by ear.

I love the feedback in the showcase too as I've had differing opinions a few times on a particular instrument or drums and that has shown me how even feedback is often personal preference unless its glaringly a standout point.

Go for that mix guide! Don't know if the market is saturated with them but you could probably do a more in-depth one too and make some money for your efforts. Start a YouTube Channel or even a kindle eBook. Never know until you put it out there.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I've been reading some materials that suggests to always keep the bass, kick and snare at the center but pan the melodies and background sounds. Now that I think about it, they might be suggesting that if you're going to have someone rap over the beat and not if it's just an instrumental.

Yeah, for Hip-hop, bass, kick and snare central. Hats I pan often at around 15ish to the left.
See that's my thoughts, panning obviously opens up the beat for a rapper but if your solely in a beat competition or instrumental then maybe less panning.

Again, its all preference individually.
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 670
Yeah, mixing is an art alright, and you could give the same exact track and stems to 3 random mixing engineers, and they won't produce the exact same either, that's the beauty of music and individual tastes and styles.
I love the feedback in the showcase too as I've had differing opinions a few times on a particular instrument or drums and that has shown me how even feedback is often personal preference unless its glaringly a standout point.

Yeah, so if you have 1 person saying your snare is loud, 1 saying it's fine, one saying it's quiet, you can ignore it. But, if like 5 people are saying 'yo your instruments are wayyy too quiet' then it's likely something to consider. But also, don't be afraid to stick to your gut. Especially on things that are more preference, that could be you developing your sound/brand/aesthetic.

I only use those diagrams as a reference if I feel the track is busy instrumentally but realistically, I think most of us can tell if it at least sound good or not by ear.

See this is the thing, if most are able to tell by ear, why even reference the guide? Might as well just open up them ears and dig in, otherwise the guide might have you digging in the wrong spot to begin with!

Go for that mix guide! Don't know if the market is saturated with them but you could probably do a more in-depth one too and make some money for your efforts. Start a YouTube Channel or even a kindle eBook. Never know until you put it out there.

Was just gonna be a simple guide on here, for illiens/illmuzik. My intention is to keep it real concise and focussed on the key points. Its goal will be to get people to approach their mixing in a better way. It'll be about listening, thinking, and perspective. Or somth like that anyway haha.
 
See this is the thing, if most are able to tell by ear, why even reference the guide? Might as well just open up them ears and dig in, otherwise the guide might have you digging in the wrong spot to begin with!

The guide is just that, a guide. It's always handy to have that knowledge to lean on especially for newcomers too.

Look at the post the other day from @2GooD Productions on compression, literally turned the process on its head but makes total sense. There will never be an Ultimate guide to mixing but the basics and fundamentals are always there.

Concise and to the point definitely, especially with todays 'tiktok' attention span :ROFLMAO:
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 670
The guide is just that, a guide. It's always handy to have that knowledge to lean on especially for newcomers too

I think it's more the fact too that it can obstruct you from trusting yourself - at least certain things did for me.

Like you might high shelf something by 12db and think 'no i go told no boost should be that much', or you might try boost the snap of your snare and only be boosting a certain freq because the guide. or things like 'dont clip', but your favorite record waveform is square af. So many things for me I figured out on my own, that i doubted/secondguessed or didn't trust, only yearslater to hear from top prods/engineers that this is the 'secret' methods they've been using.
 
I think it's more the fact too that it can obstruct you from trusting yourself - at least certain things did for me.

Like you might high shelf something by 12db and think 'no i go told no boost should be that much', or you might try boost the snap of your snare and only be boosting a certain freq because the guide. or things like 'dont clip', but your favorite record waveform is square af. So many things for me I figured out on my own, that i doubted/secondguessed or didn't trust, only yearslater to hear from top prods/engineers that this is the 'secret' methods they've been using.
There is also being able to comprehend what is even being told. I have seen many videos and still do that go right over my head, but my level of understanding what Im being shown has grown greatly over time and experience. There is no better teacher than just getting stuck in, making the mistakes that you need to make in order to learn the valuable lesson that came from realising the mistake.
That can be accelerated by watching videos when you are ready to absorb what they are teaching, but watching things that you dont quite comprehend can give you a pointer on to where to take your journey of learning, or it can confuse and be misleading, drawing the wrong conclusions.
There are many ways to skin a cat, and different ways to achieve the same result. Some are easier than others, some people prefer one way over another as it suits their workflow or they have a particular vst or hardware to do a particular job, like a compressor for example. Ultimately we can only work with what we have, and the more we work with what we have, the better we get at making the most of it.
Just keep making music, good and bad. Its not really about the destination, its about learning how to get there and taking the journey in the first place. Unless the destination is financial stability, the best route to that would be study hard at school, get good grades and or if your arent academically gifted then get into a trade like plumbing and worry about a lifelong career and forget about making a fortune from music. Fame is fleeting, a career can be for life.
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 670
There is also being able to comprehend what is even being told. I have seen many videos and still do that go right over my head, but my level of understanding what Im being shown has grown greatly over time and experience. There is no better teacher than just getting stuck in, making the mistakes that you need to make in order to learn the valuable lesson that came from realising the mistake.
That can be accelerated by watching videos when you are ready to absorb what they are teaching, but watching things that you dont quite comprehend can give you a pointer on to where to take your journey of learning, or it can confuse and be misleading, drawing the wrong conclusions.
There are many ways to skin a cat, and different ways to achieve the same result. Some are easier than others, some people prefer one way over another as it suits their workflow or they have a particular vst or hardware to do a particular job, like a compressor for example. Ultimately we can only work with what we have, and the more we work with what we have, the better we get at making the most of it.
Just keep making music, good and bad. Its not really about the destination, its about learning how to get there and taking the journey in the first place. Unless the destination is financial stability, the best route to that would be study hard at school, get good grades and or if your arent academically gifted then get into a trade like plumbing and worry about a lifelong career and forget about making a fortune from music. Fame is fleeting, a career can be for life.

This!

Ha the one that used to get me is "it's subtle, but listen to the difference this makes..." NO MR YOUTUBE ENGINEER, I CANNOT FUCKING HEAR IT. Lately though, I've been able to hear that stuff. And it's crazy, because when you realise how subtle a lot of the stuff pro engineers do is, even when you used to be aware of 'make small changes', you're like damn. So newcomers, who aren't yet adept at hearing the subtleties, that's why they (and we when we started) were doing absolute madnesses even when we thought we were being subtle.
That being said, there is still a few times recently where I really just can't hear the difference, but could be down to YouTube audio and the engineers have also mentioned it being ultra subtle. But the fact I'm now hearing a bunch of stuff (with the same monitors I've used since day) is interesting progression.

And that's a good point tbf... You and myself advise a lot of illiens here about 'using their ears' to actually hear what needs to be done, and catch 22, maybe they can't yet 'hear' what needs to be done, which, ironically is why they need to just keep listening until they hear it.

And that's the thing, some will see the advice of compression to achieve 'punch', then do some heavy handed compression to achieve this --- but they have to learn first, does it actually need that punch? What does that 'punch' actually sound like? and the fact that you probably only need to hit like 1db of GR to achieve that difference in the sound; where let's say the sound DID need punch, they may hit it with like 6db GR and ruin the sound, but they didn't know how to hear that subtle difference.

STILL though, the sooner you focus on listening and questioning, the sooner you'll be able to 'hear' and apply all this.

My biggest turning point in my mixing, evidenced here on the ill, is when I stopped touching any EQ or Compression in my mixes. I started getting praise for my mixes, and eventually was able to start adding those processes back in. Informed from the real learning offered to me simply by listening and questioning my mixes.
 
ILLienz here have helped me massively and I remember early feedback where I literally had to go research what the fuck advice you just gave me so I could understand and respond. Now, I'm still a fledgling in comparison to most ILLienz but I now feel and hear enough that i can offer and respond to some feedback for others.

Early on I held back as had to get my own work up to a point before I felt I could offer any credible feedback.

Many thanks to all of ya, much love!
 

Iron Keys

ILLIEN MBAPPÉ
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 670
I remember early feedback where I literally had to go research what the fuck advice you just gave me so I could understand and respond
hahahaha them ones

my bredrin used to hit me with some science article, and be like 'bro, what are your thoughts?'

I'd be one sentence in and already had to study 5 different wikipedia articles about theories and concepts and then even research further into those things :confusedphones:
 
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