War Report!

[Cold Truth]

what is the " i am better than you" attitude that Israel gives off? this goes back thouands of years; everyone has tried (and failed.....) to exterminate Israel. remember the 6 day war? Russia? do you understand that every arab nation wants the Jewish nation of Israel gone? everyone wants to give palestine land that isnt even rightfully theirs, and everyone wants Israel to give in...... they are fighting for their lives, for their right to exist as a NATION. this has ZERO to do with any percieved arrogance.


when i said "hate for hate's sake" i am speaking of the volumes of people who have very little to back up WHY they feel what they do. plenty of people are hating for hate's sake.

and as far as attacking the terorists leaders not stopping terrorism, you got a point... however, what would you do? how would you handle it? do you think that when we get attacked as a country, we should do nothing about it? do you feel that as a nation, we shouldnt have any kind of homeland security initiative? every says its a joke, and it may be, but do you suggest that we should do nothing?

lets all sit here and twiddle our thumbs and get blown up, right? so we shouldnt go after bin laden, who has claimed responsibility and the various organizations that have made videos (the latest: KILL ALL AMERICANS) encouraging violenc etowards america? do you think that somehow, because you hate bush that that excludes you? NEWSFLASH! you are no different from the rest of us in this country, and you will be killed just the same if it arises. PERIOD.

everyone hates ariel sharon and george w.....

people say "yeah, saddam was a tyrant (understatement of the decade award, right there...) and osama is a terrorist, BUT BUSH AND SHARON... they are the real terrorists....so what if the palestinians have no right to the land that the rest of the world, arabs especially, want Israel to vacate so palestine (and vicariously, the arabs..) can have the land... so what if they are blowing themselves up in the name of their god in order to blow up a few hundred Jews. thats ok, but THAT SHARON, WHAT A TERRORIST! HE'S DEFENDING HIMSELF AND HIS COUNTRY, AND TAKES THE OFFENSIVE JUST THE SAME. AND DONT DO ANYTHING IN THE NAME OF JESUS... BUT ITS OK IF YOU MURDER IN COLD BLOOD IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. right?

people sit here and talk about being "closed minded" and yet the only views they respect are those that follow their own line of thinking. that (hate to break the news) is closed minded now, isnt it?

i dont mind being "closed minded" these days. i am through trying to be "open minded" because apparantly you arent open minded enough unless you happen to agree with the the views of others; which is colsed off on their part. i dont have to agree with you to accept your views, and i can disagree just fine without "hurtling things" at people. for some reason people equate disagreeing with "hurtling things".

oh, and wings... on the real, NOBODY here will EVER understand your position and what it is like there.

for the record me and wings are fairly tight (internet standars, i know) and there are plenty of things we dont agree on (i am a Christian, he is a Jewish athiest...how much more different can you get!?) however taht doesnt change the friendship one bit. we dont have to have the same world view to get along.

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

The End Of The Road

AMEN! word truth! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
exactly. we respect each other as human beings. and that's the most important thing.

my advice to ya'll is: FOLLOW THE LIGHT AND THE PATH OF TRUTH AND WISDOM.
DO NOT, HOWEVER, PURSUE AFTER HATRED AND ODIUM. ALWAYS TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE OTHER SIDE. DO NOT THINK OF ANYBODY AS AN ENEMY, BUT TRY TO SOFTEN YOUR FEELING TOWARDS HIM. COMPASSION IS THE KEY TO BLISS AND UTTER HAPPINESS!

(damn! i should have been a preacher! :yes: ).

One Love,
Wings

 

[Architect]

You can't really say that noone will EVER understand Wings point of view, but this isn't about any of us it's bigger than that. I never mentioned George W. Bush or Ariel Sharon, it's easy to put blame, but my views are this, I don't support any type of wars of this nature, forcing people to choose something they may not necessarily want, and also I know people who live IN ISRAEL, I'm down with the Hebrew Israelites which own restaurants and stores here in DC they have lots of people that live right there in Israel in the thick of things. I understand the frustrations, but this is 2004 haven't we learned that War isn't an answer it's a cop out! Its an escape to a problem which you have come to the conclusion that you can't fix. I believe if we really started to understand the people, the problems that they face, their needs and what we can really do to help them other than blowing them away we could really get somewhere.

I appreciate your comments Wings, I believe we all agree that this fighting and hatred towards each other has to stop. Truth you can't really say that the Palestinians are fighting for something that isn't rightfully theirs, from what I understand and I could be wrong but a large portion of the land that is now Israel was occupied by the Palestinians. I mean do you really think they are waging war for something that isn't theres? What do these people have left? They live poor, they get rolled over by tanks, they blow innocent Israel people away! There is a huge problem but nobody really seems to want to stand up and fight against this! No one wants to understand behind all the rhetoric what the people are facing. And I'm not saying I'm against Israel or anything like that.


Back to topic, my opinion point blank we should not be in Iraq, look at the pictures of small children happy about the 4 american civilians who were killed mutilated. There is serious hatred towards the US and we are not helping by waving our guns!

 

[gram green]

COLD TRUTH... hate to be the one to tell you ... but wake the fuck up.... your missing alot of points my man.... saddam and 9/11 aint got one god damn thing in common..... bush wanted to get at em because of his daddy.... he lied about the reasons to go to iraq.... so fuck bush and he is making the hatred of americans abroad worse every day... "if you were a survivor of 9/11, i guarantee you that you would be behind that initiative AND the president 100% for doing it." ... can you explain that to me? .... that is bullshit man..... for reals... looks like you let our media and this presidency sell you a lie.... "and everyone somehow thinks bush is wrong for wanting to go after them for it... " who did bush go after? .... bush aint done shit about the terroism .... dont get me wrong... i hate a terroist down to kill innocent peeps just as much.... but believe me bush is fuckin shit up and making the problem worse... and him being able to lie to people like you and then you believe him and follow him is the real problem... open your eyes up my man.... of course saddam is an evil murderer... but there are hundreds, maybe thousands of saddams, and we give them money and weapons ao they can murder they own peeps.... but when we decide to not like this certain murdering dictator any more then its ok to go and destroy them?.... i mean fine if you want to hold that opinion, its not that bad of an idea to just declare yourself rightous and go around the world ridding it of evil dictators, i dont subscribe to that, but call it what it is.... and yo... i wouldnt speak on the oil shit until you do a little research... thats all i'll say bout that....

 

[Architect]

The US Government has supplied weapons and resources to both Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden in prior years, while they were both doing their despicable acts and the US knew it! They didn't give a damn about the people then and don't know. It's all a front. If we did think about the people over there we would not be putting them through another war! These people have been fighting all their lives! Iraq is a very complicated situation and I believe we really really really did not think it through before going over there to war, they have jumped the gun and said "WE WON THE WAR" we didn't win shit, and they are now looking to send more troops so what does that tell you.

 

[gram green]

oh they thought it out tec..... we aint who decide is the problem... bush got his reasons for going... i doesnt matter what "we" think or want yo

 

[SupaStar]

Everyone has posted some interesting points, but if I am to add, I feel the Iraqis are too third world of a country to realize when someones trying to help out a situation and I feel Bush's cause of bringing stability to Iraq is not worth 600+ souls even the murders of the Us missionaries. Point blank and clear any country that has people that would blow themself for the promise of sex n riches is too stupid of a country to save. If I had my way I would wish back the "Old Skool" America that kicked ass when ass needed kicking, y'all remember Japan when they blew up that ship, the next day America issued some serious ass whooping. ... Nowadays, you got to have panels and meetings, and this and that has to go through the board, before a bullet is fired, come on, and imagine this the soldiers cant cross an imaginary border line.....This is to easy of a war to loose so many,, when is America going to start showing its full potential...If I was in Bush's position, I would just move all media out the country and unleash a woo-ha up in that beatch,,, and think about the consequences after I have Bin Laden's head on a platter. Then leave Iraq and Saddam's loyalist alone there to kill they self off and starve, cuz what sense does it make anymore to be all nice........

 

[Cold Truth]

first of all, gram, i suggest you read the thread again- i reffered to several other posts, not just yours. and please, dont come at me or anyone else like that- "wake the fuck up". i suggest you change your tone a little when addressing people in the future.

there have been two wars in question in THIS VERY THREAD. terrorism and iraq. forgive me for not specifying which was which. my bad.

and i will explain my comment to you, clearly..
if you had been in that building, or had a mom or dad or brother or sister or friend or wife or child on one of those planes or in that building, chances are you would be all for the war on terrorism. i never said i believed everything he says, i actually disagree with a lot of things he is doing... but people sit here and act like bush is the biggest villain of them all. no on ever talks about the other side of things. i am not blind; i know some history. i know how we helped bin laden and trained him in the 80's, i know our role in suddam husseins reign as well. somehow everyone on the internet became a political know-it-all and an expert historian and all of a sudden knows everything there ever was to know about bush. but somehow have a short memeory as to the other parties. thats all. as far as the oil, i told copenhagen "I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THAT" in regards to the bush family owning oil in iraq. do some research in the thread before you speak on things i have said.

 

[Architect]

Common Krazy, you can't be that ignorant do you really feel that the Iraqis are that stupid! Don't buy into this big I little you crap, just because these are so-called third world countries doesn't mean that they don't have common sense. Some of you guys have the wrong idea I'm glad most of you aren't in politics LOL.

 

[Cold Truth]

the same can be said for yourself. just noticed your from d.c. i amsure you are a political genius because of that.....

oh and as far as palestine.......

1964 the U.N decides to grant Israel their wish to become a nation again- and palestine as well. Jews here, arabs there. the arabs dont like it, thus begins the 6 day war, where the odds of an Israeli victory are like, 30 to 1 (lets keep them conservative, shall we?) and... Israel wins! wow, wonder how that happened..

the rest of the arabs (i believe russia played a role here as well...) broadcast a message on radio to join them in fighting Israel, and Israel said to just stay out of it, let us fight he battle. the arabs made lots of promises, but Israel won..... and the palestinians fought against Israel during the battle.

so........ palestinians are left without a home! none of the arabs wanted to let the refugees into their countries and started the "coalition to free palestine" (the name is loose.....)and so here we have the war we have today, going on since then. a few years ago Israel waas ready to give them some of the land, but it apparantly wasnt enough.... so they fight still. but sharon is the terrorist, right?

 

[Architect]

Very funny truth LOL, when it all comes down to it, I know we all want peace and NOT WAR!

 

[1d3nt1tY]

I say to each his own... who are we to try and LIVE by shit like "judge not, lest ye be judged" and go and still judge, in the name of whatever you believe in and say who is right or wrong.

Our own country has it's own massive share of problems that need to be addressed before we go "freeing" other nations and liberating their poor to deeper poverty!

Why don't make a coalition to remove all forms of PROVEN and KNOWN racism, such as removing the confederate flag from all state capitals that happen to STILL FLY ONE?!?!?!?!?! In case you don't know what the confederate flag stands for, it was the flag that represented slavery, in the "special interest" of the cotton idustry...

It might be a messed up sitcho over there, but we have some pretty fucked up areas too. The war on drugs was a hoax, a reason to make more money for those who actually import the shit. I know you will object because you have been truly brainwashed or whatever, but I agree that people need to stop conforming to the media poop holes and start thinking for themselves.

I was not in direct line with 9/11, but honestly, what does 9/11 have to do with saddam? They hven't proven a single thread of anything they said he was capable of... not even a casing for a nuke... obviously a hoax. I agree that Osama needs to be caught and hung up by his nutsack, but I don't support the mistaken and mislead bombs that have leveled civilian structures and left people homeless. Our relief consisted of a few food drops, which most likely went to the badasses of the area anyways. How many weak and hungry people really got the attention or the true and "loving" condolences from our government for that misplaced aim?

In the first Gulf war, why do you think Saddam started torching HIS OWN OIL DERRICKS?! Because he knew the real reason we were there, for the oil, not to help save the poor children.

Palestine has made some bad choices, Israel has too, America is nothing new to fucked up, hipocritical bullshit practices... If I were to believe what revelations says, I would wholeheartedly believe that America invading Iraq is so that the new day babylon could be re-created... the place by which all countries trade their wares and all merchants get rich by "her", an american constitution and democracy would provide that, right?

But it's a good thing I don't really believe all that at this point, it's just kinda pointless to believe in all that. Whatever happens happens, but KNOW THIS, humankind will find a way to destroy itself, one way or the other, there are too many people with pink pussy inside their hearts to face the real truths behind shit, they would rather just eat everything their destructive governments want to feed em.

really tho:

Why don't we create an employment reform that would allow better work for hard working peoples instead of raising the fuck out of their property taxes and dropping programs that stimulate growth?

Why don't we create a better educational system which will not tolerate the forms of racism that I myself have been a victim to in the past?

Why don't we work on bringing the inner cities better employment opportunities?

Why don't we try to feed the poor by offering incentive programs? or medical by not over taxing the elderly??

What can we do? Sit back and watch? woop di woo what can we do?

Talk about it and get all heated over some dumb ass shit that has nothing to do with what we want?

I don't mind talkin about it, or debating... but still too many feely things get hurt.

Oh well I said my piece.

 

[Cold Truth]

Why don't we create an employment reform that would allow better work for hard working peoples instead of raising the fuck out of their property taxes and dropping programs that stimulate growth?

"Why don't we create a better educational system which will not tolerate the forms of racism that I myself have been a victim to in the past?

Why don't we work on bringing the inner cities better employment opportunities?

Why don't we try to feed the poor by offering incentive programs? or medical by not over taxing the elderly??"

see, now this makes perfect sense. i doubt anyone can argue these points. would it be in our best interest to focus on these things? yup. sure would be.

you know, identity, you seem to be the only one getting your feelings hurt over here, since you have brought it up in seemingly in every post. people are arguing and debating back and forth; thats it. at the end of the day we sign offline and go about our business. noone is taking things on a personal level, so i dont understand where that keeps coming from.

 

[1d3nt1tY]

tru tru tru... my feelings aren't getting hurt though, I'm not intentionally trying to call out any one person either. You reply to my opinion alot though, and it pretty much seems like yer the first one to and are always kind of heated and upset at what my opinion might be. If I feel like you are calling me out, I'll usually say something, just to be sayin it. It might be direct or indirect, but it doesn't really matter. we'll reach an understanding at some point, conflicts by real people are usually get squashed eventually. I touched on religion in your thread, way off topic, and I admit I was wrong to spill that shit when I did, but you have to admit that you did kind of overreact in a melodramatic kind of way, callin me by name and everything... no big deal, it just started controversy and I don't hate you, I'll congratulate you for finding the peace where I saw chaos...

I have no problem with you, I'm just to that point where racism is too much and some (IMHO) have too lax of a view of what it still is, this war is too much and (IMHO) I feel like people just let their government do whatever they want, our political system is too much and people (IMHO) contribute to the issues at hand

No matter I believe or how hard, I'm not an island, I am only a tiny little spec of dust on the massive void of our universe. For every positive, there's a negative, every action has a reaction, and the basic properties of this world are in line with that.

Rage against the machine I say, and in this fashion I'll attempt to make my mark as large as I can before I disappear. Hoepfully my twisted views will be lost in translation, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the next generation of gang bangers and charlie mansonz.

Don't take everything I say so seriously... I'm really a coo ass mofo who would share his last buck with someone who needs it.

All that aside, I still say our government could do alot more at home, (remove the plank from our eye) before we start fuckn with slivers in their eye... you kno?

 

[Copenhagen]

I think that war on terrorism was born in the mind of our current pres simply to go to war with Iraq and drive the oil prices sky high... Bush has been linked to the oil industries, proven... his campaign was paid for by the oil industry, and if you think I'm lyin, look it up on google.

It is also being proven that Iraq was on Bush's top to do list BEFORE 9-11 happened. HMMMM

Why would the US want to drive the oil prices sky high? Why would the US want to pay more for something they rely on so much?
One of USA's main interests in the middle east is to keep the region stable to thereby keep the oil prices stable, and not too high.

Also, Iraq was not on Bush's to do list, but on Donald Rumsfeld's to do list, at least to my knowledge, and from what the 9/11 day report from the White House reads.

...why start in Iraq, why not with Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe or off to Sudan where hundreds of thousands have been killed in a matter of months.

This is another thing that bugs me. When 3-4.000 people are killed on 9/11, it was all over the world news every day for ages, with moments of silence I don't know how often in many countries etc etc, yet the 800.000 who were killed in Rwanda or the daily guerilla battles in Africa don't even get 2 minutes, they get 2 lines. I'm not saying 9/11 isn't a tragedy, but why are these lives worth more in regards to airtime and paying respect than the lives in Africa?

i for one am all for taking up arms for Israel, however. it seems the whole world wants them wiped out (wonder why...)... so i support defending them 100% (besides, our boy wings is there... we CANT lose him!)

I have nothing against Jews (though I am not too happy about orthodox Jews who have little or no respect for non-Jews, but then again, I don't really like anything orthodox, whichever religion it may be).
However, how come they have been chased since the middle ages? There must be a reason and they must also be able to look at themselves and say "where are we going wrong?". I am not talking about Jews in general, but unfortunately most of the outspoken Jews (or in power) are not able to look at their own mistakes, but instead cry anti-semitism whenever someone remotely criticizes Israel or Jews. I'm mostly referring to the right wing here, who unfortunately are in power. Even Wings know what I'm talking about here.

w8 a sec, the whole reason for Israel being persecuted is mainly because of the whole "I'm better than you" attitude that they exude so freely. Ariel Sharon handles shit like a thug, not a PM. Let's blow up a house with some innocent peeps in it because they are family to a terrorist. Men women and children, not to mention taking bribes and extortion... I think that he is probably one of the biggest reason for the terrorist threat... an opressed people will do just about anything.

And you don't think that these Orthodox Muslims think that they are better than Jews, Christians etc too? And they don't suicide bomb hundreds of innocent civilians too? None of this is okay, but at least Israel has a clear target.

If I had my way I would wish back the "Old Skool" America that kicked ass when ass needed kicking, y'all remember Japan when they blew up that ship, the next day America issued some serious ass whooping. ... Nowadays, you got to have panels and meetings, and this and that has to go through the board, before a bullet is fired, come on, and imagine this the soldiers cant cross an imaginary border line.....This is to easy of a war to loose so many,, when is America going to start showing its full potential...If I was in Bush's position, I would just move all media out the country and unleash a woo-ha up in that beatch,,, and think about the consequences after I have Bin Laden's head on a platter. Then leave Iraq and Saddam's loyalist alone there to kill they self off and starve, cuz what sense does it make anymore to be all nice........

Remember that Japan bombed Pearl Harbour, a naval base...a military target. Yes there were civilians there (and that's of course bad), but there was still a goal.
USA nuked 2 cities!! I am sorry Krzy but there's no way I'd ever defend doing stuff like that again. To me, that only proved what terrible things Nuclear Weapons can do and that we for man's sake should do everything to eliminate these types of weapons, ALSO the ones that the US possess.
Also, these panels are there to make sure that no drastic measure are taken, like invading a country based on bias and incorrect information...(read: Iraq). They serve a purpose.


Oh, and I wouldn't exactly say that the UN fixed the deal with Israel. Yes it was in the name of the UN, but to my knowledge, Palestine was a british colony, and they are a close allie to USA, who had/has a strong and powerful Jewish lobby in Washington fighting for Israel, so it was mainly their decision. There was boats filled with Jews off the shores and nobody would take them in, so that land was given to them. For the same reasons, Britain and USA should be responsible for making things work and USA should not be as biased towards Israel in those disputes.

Anyway, enough of me. My opinion is simple...war sucks! The human race should have learned that by now.

 

[Cold Truth]

yeah, thats last line is something we all can (at least, should..) agree on.

intersting about the britain/u.s/palestine/israeli tie there.. i want to research that now.

 

[1d3nt1tY]

but blood and guts are so intriguing! Check any car accident you ever saw and there's a few hundred people who break their nose on the window tryin to see some gutz on the ground.


copenhagen, I am on the same page as far as Israel goes... I am not a hater of jews... or any race for that matter, You see, I am a non-religionist... you might peep my other posts here n there, I am not in any way saying that Israel is the ONLY evil or whatever, and I certainly DON'T speak for every person there. But it is certainly fueling some of the fire and acting eradically as is Amerikkka but there is a different view for anyone involved directly or indirectly.

And yes, the British and American oil industries have alot to gain from the rising prices of oil.

the majority of Bush's presidential campaign was funded by the fossil fuel companies, 37 billion or so of the 58 bil...

The gov't has been meeting with these fossil fuel companies to plan the post-war expansion of oil production from Iraq's underdeveloped oil derricks.

Bush's friends are now busy laying a pipeline across Afghanistan, to bring out Caspian Sea oil. Soon Iraq will follow.

USA has a goal of becoming fossil fuel independant without drilling our own reserves in Alaska or Texas, this has been a presidential issue for decades, as we always knew that one day we would run low on crude petro and need to seriously look elsewhere (late 80's we were running dry)... Why not make a few hundred trillion dollars in the process? Why buy the benz when you can "legally" take the muthafucca? Nobody is really sayin shit to Bush, he'll get a lil slap on his hand and do what he does.

Once we're in charge, we'll decide what price Iraq should charge for its oil (cheap), and we'll buy it all (cheap) and resell it to ourselves at 2000% markup.

And everyone will pay that 2.00-5.00 a gallon for gas because they are so blindsided by some lame excuse of a war on terror that they don't see how bad they are being raped every day at the pump. And after the war they will just say that there's a shortage of oil due to the war. conspiracy theory? it's real. You pay for it every day.

I know it seems like I am just slammin on Bush, but guess what folks, if he handled shit differently from the getgo, and wasn't so damn shady, maybe I would bow down and kiss his royal ass, but he shows his own true colors.



And my basic foundation is that this war is bs and too many people have died over stupid shit.


I feel the point about africa 1000%


but I've said my piece once again and I'm DONE.

p e a c e l o v e h a p p i n e s s and all that other mushy shit.


[edited to put this link in]

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/iraq.html

 

[N.A.R.]

War iz stupid lets just face it.....

 

[gram green]

yo you should change your name to cold bush or cold lie

hahaha... dont get pissy yet... i thought that was funny


"if you had been in that building, or had a mom or dad or brother or sister or friend or wife or child on one of those planes or in that building, chances are you would be all for the war on terrorism"

Ill take whatever tone i like my man... i felt i kept it cool... i do feel cats like you should "wake the fuck up" to reiterate that.... but all due respect at the same time... feel free to tell me my political ideas are wack, my beats are wack, whatever... its just some "critisism" dont get all huff about it... anyways you did it again... iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 ... you dont know if anyone i know died on 9/11, if someone did i would be more pissed at george bush and probably would feel like i had to stop him... but luckily i can just stay out of it.... if my mom did die that day i would probably dedicate my life to letting people know how full of shit bush is, how iraq is his personal trip and has nothing to do with the war on terroism... i am for a war of some kind against terrorism.... one more time cuz .... Bush aint done shit to fight terroism and iraq has nothing with terroism.... WAKE UP HOMEY....

gram greezy

 

[Cold Truth]

I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT TERRORISM HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ.

why dont you read the post again?

i have no problem with your political views; they are what htey are. i have my own. i do not tell you what you need to believe...

i do, however, have an issue with you coming at me the way you have in your last two posts. you would be wise (and it would be appreciated) if you would learn how to address to people without the attitude.

is that ok? can we do that? can we discuss the topic without taking personal shots the rest of the way? i hope so.