The state of beat making in 2023

[Fade]

I'd like to know what everyone thinks of the current state of beat making in 2023. For the past while, the beats I hear both here at ILL and just in general tend to be stagnant.

In what direction do you see it going?

I find the beats are leaning more towards Electronic music, to the point where it's like a new genre. Obviously it's the current technology that we have to make beats that is pushing us in a certain direction, but I think it's also the lack of creativity to a point. I don't hear a lot of variety in the Hip Hop world (obviously there is if you look hard enough), but it's not so prominent as it once was.

When I saw the 50th anniversary performance recently at the Grammys, it was just so evident how much things have changed. It started with guys like LL and Run DMC, then onto Public Enemy, Scarface, Method Man, etc., then onto Busta and all that. But then it ended with today's artists and it was so evident how drastically it has changed. The transition from the 80s artists to the 90s artists just seem so natural. Then from the 90s to the 2000s, again, it just seem to be a natural progression. But then it seems the sound from the mid/late 2000s to now - the sound changed a lot.

I know some of the reasons for the drastic change is for example, there's A LOT of beat makers and artists now. There's a lot of money to be made now, so everyone is jumping on the bandwagon and just making what's currently popular. Things like that are a huge driving force, but I think it's an interesting discussion about where beat making is headed.

So I'm just wondering what everyone thinks is going to happen moving forward; if the beats are going to sound more Electronic or will some other style come in and dominate?

 

[OGBama]

There's a lot of money to be made now

This is the part that confuses me as I saw an article where someone working in a session with Oak Felder had to leave to go to an interview to work at a restaurant.

Either way AI can spit out some bullshit at a Draco’s pace but I won’t be using it as I’ma do my thing regardless.

 

[Iron Keys]

Some other thing will dominate.

This generation is ruined. They literally listen to the same one type of beat/song. The artists all have the same flow and vocal fx. They all use the same sound pack, plugin, and VSTs, and follow the same tutorials. Often their autotune is out of tune, and they barely rap/rhyme anyway.

This is worsened by the fact today everyone today is allowed to think they are a rapper/artist/producer. I think it's great that everyone has the accessibility to create, however the outcome has not been improved creativity.

Little Brad can download FL and buy some cheap mic and within a week be uploading music to YouTube Spotify BandCamp etc and claiming to be 'an artist' ... in previous eras, to be able to do that would probably take a lot more money effort and time, and if you sucked you would quickly find out and either a) realise to quit right there, as the money and effort is too much to not be good or b) actually strive to become good. In today's era, you don't lose any real money or time to be shit. And because there is so much shit out there you can probably get a few likes and think you're good.

I think the only real hope is that the next generation who emerge hopefully rebel against what is current and come with a dedication to quality, creativity and something that is actually decent.

Your rappers today are wearing nail polish and all 'Lil' 'Baby's and all that goes with it. Even some of the older heads have turned into washed up gossips on certain media platforms.

Out of "modern*" rappers, I find the females generally are more listenable (even tho they are very samey etc)

*not including rappers today who do older styles.

 

[Fade]

I'm not looking at the artist and lifestyle part really, it's more about the beat making aspect, although I get your point.

This generation is ruined. They literally listen to the same one type of beat/song. The artists all have the same flow and vocal fx. They all use the same sound pack, plugin, and VSTs, and follow the same tutorials. Often their autotune is out of tune, and they barely rap/rhyme anyway.

I agree, as I've mentioned numerous times about how if 1000 beat makers are all using FL and its stock sounds, then what do you think will happen? As opposed to the older way of making beats where everyone had the same drum machines and samplers, yet even though the styles were similar, there was a lot of variety in the sounds used.

This is worsened by the fact today everyone today is allowed to think they are a rapper/artist/producer. I think it's great that everyone has the accessibility to create, however the outcome has not been improved creativity.

You can make beats with your phone while on the toilet. That's both good and bad. It gives everyone the opportunity to create something but like you said, everyone thinks they're good at it.

Little Brad can download FL and buy some cheap mic and within a week be uploading music to YouTube Spotify BandCamp etc and claiming to be 'an artist' ... in previous eras, to be able to do that would probably take a lot more money effort and time, and if you sucked you would quickly find out and either a) realise to quit right there, as the money and effort is too much to not be good or b) actually strive to become good. In today's era, you don't lose any real money or time to be shit. And because there is so much shit out there you can probably get a few likes and think you're good.

That's one of the biggest things today. I remember one of the episodes in that Wutang show where the RZA wanted to buy the SP1200 but it was something like $2000, which he didn't have. Even for myself I remember when the MPC 2000 came out and I'm standing there at the store looking at it and thinking, "I can't afford this right now". I can only imagine what kind of beats I would have made if I bought it back then.

Another thing is if you look at House music, it pretty much hasn't changed. EVER! It's really interesting how it's mostly the same style.

Since Hip Hop is tech-based (versus using instruments to create), how come it has changed so much AND now it's stalled?

 

[Iron Keys]

Since Hip Hop is tech-based (versus using instruments to create), how come it has changed so much AND now it's stalled?

This is one of the wildest things. Hip Hop came from poverty where you needed to be creative. You'd think with broader range of tools the scope for creativity would be increased. Especially with what would be the norm to want to be unique and do something different. But today's era seems to want to just copy completely. No individuality at all. Which is bizarre.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Production is what you make of it, you can make it ridiculously deep or completely simple. Its up to you.
Its less depressing worrying about what everybody else is doing and just do you, be unique and be original.

 

[iDeaLoGiK]

There's not a lot that can be done, people's tastes change over time. Hip hop culture used to be baggy pants and plain XXL shirts, now I see dudes wearing women's clothes and bright flashy shirts. Interests shift where the money goes.

I will always say that I blame the southern artists for creating the route of mumble rap taking over the airwaves. I hated most of the artists back when the south took over the mainstream, and I feel this is just a natural progression of things. There's some weirdness about Trap in the sense that there are two genres of music with the same name in it. The south made it first, but then the EDM community also created a genre that took hip hop elements and called it that. I think this is a big thing in what's going on here.

I don't think that means that hip hop culture is dying though. For every one dude out there clout chasing and shit, there's 1000 others who's interests lie in the groundwork that came before them. It's all a matter of perspective. People got to start somewhere anyway.

Its not like the market is a finite space. If you want to do it, then do it. If you don't like it, find something you do. If you have an idea, make it. There's a virtually unlimited resource of artists out there that is expanding every day. I'll never see a problem with people trying to work things out for themselves. Maybe we're seeing a generational shift again? Who knows.

All I know is that I like to fuck around with beat making because it gives me the creative outlet I had for writing lyrics and recording, without the limitations that recording lyrics has to successfully do it.

I do agree though, that FL being the most easily accessible DAW is kind of a problem in the sense that it's stock plugin list is atrocious compared to others out there when it comes to making hip hop. It's definitely electronic music oriented, be it pop music, or the shit you'd hear tweaked out at a rave. If there was one thing I could change about the program itself, that would be it. I use it out of familiarity more than anything, but I didn't really start making things that I found worthwhile until I started investing in expanding the tools I had to make music with.

 

[Fade]

One theory that I've always thought of is in a sense - maybe Hip Hop was never meant to be electronic-sounding. Maybe it was only ever meant to be sample-based. In a way, sort of like House music that's never really changed and gone into something new.

As for the future of beat making, I can't really see anything progressing into something groundbreaking. When it went from mostly drum machine tracks in the 80s to heavy samples in the 90s, that was a great transition. Right now though since so many are using virtual instruments and DAWs that make it incredibly easy, I don't see much changing except that maybe more beat makers will want to try an older approach, like making some old school stuff. Who knows.

For the DJs out there: One of the biggest differences I've noticed in styles is when I look at early DMC battles versus today. Back then it was two turntables and an analog mixer with some vinyl. Now it's all computer-based and it's changed in a huge way. It used to be more about using two popular songs and doing something with them, now it's a lot of synth sounds and the sets are insanely fast.

For example in the 90s:




The sets today are so busy with so much going on:

 

[OGBama]

Minus @iDeaLoGiK women's clothes I don't mind dudes wearing bright flashy shirts, hell, remember when cats rocked Kani AND Cross Colours and not a damn thing was lame about it? I miss that shit. Dude, I'm from/in the South and don't blame the South for "mumble rap" bullshit, blame the proliferation of ADHD and whatever symptom(s) of the day, week, month or year so more dummy drugs sold by Big Pharma to keep individuals and a portion of the masses pacified aka "too high to not feel any real emotion about anything besides more drugs" and coddled to the point of "trigger warnings" which sound more like a warning for epileptics.

 

[iDeaLoGiK]

Minus @iDeaLoGiK women's clothes I don't mind dudes wearing bright flashy shirts, hell, remember when cats rocked Kani AND Cross Colours and not a damn thing was lame about it? I miss that shit. Dude, I'm from/in the South and don't blame the South for "mumble rap" bullshit, blame the proliferation of ADHD and whatever symptom(s) of the day, week, month or year so more dummy drugs sold by Big Pharma to keep individuals and a portion of the masses pacified aka "too high to not feel any real emotion about anything besides more drugs" and coddled to the point of "trigger warnings" which sound more like a warning for epileptics.

The south made the triplet flow over 140bpm beats popular. Mumble rap came from southern hip hop.

 

[V.J. Retro]

I see beatmaking mostly going the way of electronic music especially with AI but maybe something new would come out of it. Although with vinyl records making a comeback in popularity, I think that there would be also be a comeback with hardware tools like the Emu SP1200 or something like it. I'm sure they're will always be a counter-response to whatever is popular in music. Hip-Hop from it's inception was an alternative to Disco. During the bling era, underground artist like Mos Def have become an alternative to the pop/shinny suits acts like P. Diddy/Jay-Z. Southern music was a response to the East Coast scene, etc... With today's Hip-Hop music being over saturated with similar styles, people are eager to hear something new and fresh.

 

[V.J. Retro]

There's not a lot that can be done, people's tastes change over time. Hip hop culture used to be baggy pants and plain XXL shirts, now I see dudes wearing women's clothes and bright flashy shirts. Interests shift where the money goes.

I will always say that I blame the southern artists for creating the route of mumble rap taking over the airwaves. I hated most of the artists back when the south took over the mainstream, and I feel this is just a natural progression of things. There's some weirdness about Trap in the sense that there are two genres of music with the same name in it. The south made it first, but then the EDM community also created a genre that took hip hop elements and called it that. I think this is a big thing in what's going on here.

I don't think that means that hip hop culture is dying though. For every one dude out there clout chasing and shit, there's 1000 others who's interests lie in the groundwork that came before them. It's all a matter of perspective. People got to start somewhere anyway.

Its not like the market is a finite space. If you want to do it, then do it. If you don't like it, find something you do. If you have an idea, make it. There's a virtually unlimited resource of artists out there that is expanding every day. I'll never see a problem with people trying to work things out for themselves. Maybe we're seeing a generational shift again? Who knows.

All I know is that I like to fuck around with beat making because it gives me the creative outlet I had for writing lyrics and recording, without the limitations that recording lyrics has to successfully do it.

I do agree though, that FL being the most easily accessible DAW is kind of a problem in the sense that it's stock plugin list is atrocious compared to others out there when it comes to making hip hop. It's definitely electronic music oriented, be it pop music, or the shit you'd hear tweaked out at a rave. If there was one thing I could change about the program itself, that would be it. I use it out of familiarity more than anything, but I didn't really start making things that I found worthwhile until I started investing in expanding the tools I had to make music with.

I still rock the baggy clothes. Wish they were more available in local clothing stores XD.

I think part of the blame with trap and mumble music becoming popular is both the East and the West Coast not taking the South seriously and it showed during the Source Awards when they booed Outkast. That's when Andre started that infamous line "The South got something to say" and that's when the South really got the ball rolling.

I agree about FL Studio although Producers like 9th Wonder have used it to make amazing beats.

 

[iDeaLoGiK]

I still rock the baggy clothes. Wish they were more available in local clothing stores XD.

I think part of the blame with trap and mumble music becoming popular is both the East and the West Coast not taking the South seriously and it showed during the Source Awards when they booed Outkast. That's when Andre started that infamous line "The South got something to say" and that's when the South really got the ball rolling.

I agree about FL Studio although Producers like 9th Wonder have used it to make amazing beats.

Yeah, that was kind of a general statement I made and with no relation other than to introduce the idea that trap music and EDM are connected and has been for at least 10 years, if not more. I don't hate all of southern hip hop, but that style has churned out a whole hell of a lot of garbage to widespread popularity for some unbelievably stupid reason. Thing is I don't even hate the more electronic sounding hip hop beats. With the right flow you can make some pretty nasty stuff. It's all about who's on the track more than the beat itself to me.

I dunno though, people are into what they're into. Who am I to force my opinion on them? Like I said, there's a virtually endless supply of hands on hip hop music. Theres room for everything.

 

[Iron Keys]

Here's where I find myself...

I'm kind of bored of the old stuff (though can still enjoy it); and I don't like most of the new stuff. (There is some good you can enjoy but)

In terms of both listening to, and making beats (or music). Can leave you in a tricky position.

I have a lot less 'fun' making Hip-Hop beats now. Sometimes I still can. But what hangs over the head of that fun, is the nagging question of - but where does this fit? Does it fit?

I mean... we're discussing this on a Hip Hop beat making forum (that's right you house entry battle dweebs), we have different tastes influences opinions and talking about the state of hiphop and how it will or won't change --- we're in the position on a platform to find explore and create what's next.

Instead of going to war over boombap vs trap.

Think about it.

 

[Fade]

I mean... we're discussing this on a Hip Hop beat making forum (that's right you house entry battle dweebs), we have different tastes influences opinions and talking about the state of hiphop and how it will or won't change --- we're in the position on a platform to find explore and create what's next.

Instead of going to war over boombap vs trap.

LOL no one's going to war over Boom Bap vs Trap. I just wanted to have a conversation about where does everyone see the beat production going since it seems to have leveled off the past few years.

The whole Boom Bap vs Trap was always silly, just like hardware vs software which has been debated endlessly for years.

I'm also looking at it from the perspective of both hardware and software and where that's headed. I don't see how any new controllers can improve except for slight changes because it's all been done already. The same with software such as DAWs and even plug-ins - how many new compressor plug-ins are going to come out?

This is why I think we've reached the limit as to what can and will be done with beat making, except for beat makers that will naturally try different things to see what they can come up with. Who knows.

 

[V.J. Retro]

LOL no one's going to war over Boom Bap vs Trap. I just wanted to have a conversation about where does everyone see the beat production going since it seems to have leveled off the past few years.

The whole Boom Bap vs Trap was always silly, just like hardware vs software which has been debated endlessly for years.

I'm also looking at it from the perspective of both hardware and software and where that's headed. I don't see how any new controllers can improve except for slight changes because it's all been done already. The same with software such as DAWs and even plug-ins - how many new compressor plug-ins are going to come out?

This is why I think we've reached the limit as to what can and will be done with beat making, except for beat makers that will naturally try different things to see what they can come up with. Who knows.

Honestly I think a little healthy competition between boom bap vs trap doesn't hurt if it pushes producers to create better music and it keeps the competitive spirit of Hip Hop alive; however you can always combine the two and create a new trend.

Yeah. It's hard to picture any revolutionary changes to hardware and software today but I bet there's an individual or a team who are planning on something innovative in possibly the near future.

 

[Fade]

Honestly I think a little healthy competition between boom bap vs trap doesn't hurt if it pushes producers to create better music and it keeps the competitive spirit of Hip Hop alive; however you can always combine the two and create a new trend.

Yeah. It's hard to picture any revolutionary changes to hardware and software today but I bet there's an individual or a team who are planning on something innovative in possibly the near future.

Maybe there's some new tech coming out which would be interesting if it's innovative. However, it would probably make it easier to make beats than ever before, sort of like where AI is headed.

Imagine a controller but it looks like a McD's cash register and there's just pictures on it. You press what you want and the AI makes it! That would be cool but sad too. It would be crazy too though.

 

[Iron Keys]

LOL no one's going to war over Boom Bap vs Trap. I just wanted to have a conversation about where does everyone see the beat production going since it seems to have leveled off the past few years.

The whole Boom Bap vs Trap was always silly, just like hardware vs software which has been debated endlessly for years.

I'm also looking at it from the perspective of both hardware and software and where that's headed. I don't see how any new controllers can improve except for slight changes because it's all been done already. The same with software such as DAWs and even plug-ins - how many new compressor plug-ins are going to come out?

This is why I think we've reached the limit as to what can and will be done with beat making, except for beat makers that will naturally try different things to see what they can come up with. Who knows.

I'm not saying that.

But that's all it is here. Either you ride boombap or you ride trap. You make one, or the other. Sometimes you might try make both. But largely your making and voting will lean one way.

But either way. It's still just that - stuck in the past, or just generic modern day shit.

Where's the innovation or differentiating?

What are we doing?

 

[Iron Keys]

Honestly I think a little healthy competition between boom bap vs trap

One is outdated the other is played out.



(Effectively both are outdated)

 

[Fade]

I have to disagree. It seems that anything that is not Trap is Boom Bap. Both have unique sounds. There's also Lo-Fi, for example which is not Boom Bap. But I'm not looking to get into a debate about that, I was just mainly talking about the tech side of beat making, not really the styles.