T
The Bastard
Guest
thats cool i dont agree
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Beat This!The next Beat This! Competition is from November 27-28th!
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
how do you not agree?
so...
basically, you are saying that everyone should produce hip hop one way... everyone should sample... so should people follow a set of rules as opposed to what they want to do as an artist?
and which roots are we talking here? rappers delight sounds different from sucker mc's.... and planet rock was far different from both. so which is it? didnt planet rock use synths? which of these early hip hop songs should we emulate?
the "roots" taht people always talk abuot tends to be the late 80's and not the early 80's/late 70's...
so people should do something a certain way because people did them a certain way before them?
as opposed to doing the things that come naturally to them?
so, i should sample- even if that isnt what i am best at- just because thats what someone used 20 years ago?
people swear those guys used what they used because that was a preference... its not like htere were options that were feasible at the time. you dont think they would have used an mpc 4000 if it were around at the same time as an sp at the same price? you dont tink duddes would have rocked a motif if thats what mom and dad had instead of a record collection?
so...
basically, you are saying that everyone should produce hip hop one way... everyone should sample... so should people follow a set of rules as opposed to what they want to do as an artist?
and which roots are we talking here? rappers delight sounds different from sucker mc's.... and planet rock was far different from both. so which is it? didnt planet rock use synths? which of these early hip hop songs should we emulate?
the "roots" taht people always talk abuot tends to be the late 80's and not the early 80's/late 70's...
so people should do something a certain way because people did them a certain way before them?
as opposed to doing the things that come naturally to them?
so, i should sample- even if that isnt what i am best at- just because thats what someone used 20 years ago?
people swear those guys used what they used because that was a preference... its not like htere were options that were feasible at the time. you dont think they would have used an mpc 4000 if it were around at the same time as an sp at the same price? you dont tink duddes would have rocked a motif if thats what mom and dad had instead of a record collection?
T
The Bastard
Guest
I Dont Agree Wit U Sayin People Dont NEED TO Know Where Hip Hop Came From..., AND I DONT AGREE WITH ANYONE THAT SAYS USING SAMPLED LOOPS ISNT RIGHT BECAUSE IT ITS BETTER THAN RIGHT ITS HOW IT STARTED
MY WEASEL KNOWS WHERE HIP HOP CAME FROM,SO SHOULD EVERY OTHER BEATMAKER OR PRODUCER
http://pictures.sprintpcs.com:80/i/...&border=2,255,255,255,1,0,0,0,0&outquality=90
MY WEASEL KNOWS WHERE HIP HOP CAME FROM,SO SHOULD EVERY OTHER BEATMAKER OR PRODUCER
http://pictures.sprintpcs.com:80/i/...&border=2,255,255,255,1,0,0,0,0&outquality=90
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
i never said people shouldnt know where it came from or how it was done. i said that people dont need to recognize that a turntable is all thats needed.... people need to recognize what their strengths are as an artist and play to that. tahts all they need to be concerned with. everyone knows how it started; its common knowledge. i have yet to meet this kid everyone talks about who thinks that we have always had tritons and mpc's. no one i have ever met has been under that impression. not one person.
knowing what some guy used 20 years ago has no bearing on what i do today as a producer. they didnt have the tools that i have access to, and thus i will learn things entirely differently. thats like making your kids watch a black and whit 13 inch, becasue, well, thats what you had and that was good enough for you back then.
its like today, people use fruity loops cause they cant afford anything else... and if thats what cats had back in the day, thats what the old heads would swear by today.
people need to quit trying to make everyone operate the way they do.
what good does me knowing how marley marl made beats do me? it does me no good. nothing. at all.
knowing what some guy used 20 years ago has no bearing on what i do today as a producer. they didnt have the tools that i have access to, and thus i will learn things entirely differently. thats like making your kids watch a black and whit 13 inch, becasue, well, thats what you had and that was good enough for you back then.
its like today, people use fruity loops cause they cant afford anything else... and if thats what cats had back in the day, thats what the old heads would swear by today.
people need to quit trying to make everyone operate the way they do.
what good does me knowing how marley marl made beats do me? it does me no good. nothing. at all.
RigorMortis
Army Of Darkness
ill o.g.
yeah this is prolly the end....
FOR ME TO POOP ON LOL
nah man if you get scared all of a sudden you shouldnt be in this anyways..
It is like a psycho mother in law.. SHE CAN FUCK UP YOUR LIFE!!
BUT THE BOTH OF US WILL ALWAYS NOW I AM THE ONE FUCKING HER DAUGHTER!!!
FOR ME TO POOP ON LOL
nah man if you get scared all of a sudden you shouldnt be in this anyways..
It is like a psycho mother in law.. SHE CAN FUCK UP YOUR LIFE!!
BUT THE BOTH OF US WILL ALWAYS NOW I AM THE ONE FUCKING HER DAUGHTER!!!
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
uh... wrong thread, rigor?
T
The Bastard
Guest
U SHOULD MAKE YUR KIDS WATCH AT LEAST ONE BLACK AND WHITE SHOW CUZ ITD HELP THEM APRECIATE WHERE TV CAME FROM ''people dont NEED to recognize anything'' IF THEY ARE MAKIN HIP HOP I THINK THEY REALIZE HOW AND WHY IT STARTED SO THEY CAN APRECIATE IT
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
i dont think simply knowing where it came from has anything to do with it.
most of these dudes ou today view hip hop as nothing more than a way of making a dollar. they do not appreciate the art, they appreciate the money it has generated thema nd the lifestyle it has afforded them. these guys all know where it came from.
they always mention the same people as influences as the "traditional" artists do. these guys know where hip hop came from. they sound nothing like the influences they list.
most of these dudes ou today view hip hop as nothing more than a way of making a dollar. they do not appreciate the art, they appreciate the money it has generated thema nd the lifestyle it has afforded them. these guys all know where it came from.
they always mention the same people as influences as the "traditional" artists do. these guys know where hip hop came from. they sound nothing like the influences they list.
T
The Bastard
Guest
We Can Pretty Much Argue About This Forever I Guess Im Conservative And Your That Other Thing There Is Besides Conservative And Well Never Agree On This, Yur Right Most Of The Dudes Out Today Are Out To Make A Dollar,but I Dont Think Most Of Em Apreciate What The Artform Is About And Where It Came From ,cuz Like U Said They Just Hoes Tryin To Get Paid Like That Derek Jeter. I Think People Wit Knowledge Of The Roots Tend To Stay Loyal Wit Hip Hop And Make Better Shit, Thats It Jus My Opinion Nuthin Else
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
um..
well, your post showed that we CAN agree, because you agreed with me (partially)! i didnt really view it as an argument.
yuo said what i said- these guys dont appreciate the art so much as the money.
the rest- "i think people with the knowledge make better shit and stay loyal to hip hop"... not true.
we know puff knows the roots. he spearheaded the jiggy era. hell LL IS part of the roots! he is nothing like his younger self. at all. name any commecrially succesful, radio friendly, synth produced mc and he will rattle off names like run dmc, whodini, rakim, krs, full force, slick rick, shan, etc.,... guaranteed.
you are basically saying that people who know where hip hop came from will make it a certain way along the lines of the mold of what it once was- and while you stated that it was just your opinion, but im telling you that opinion is wrong. name one artist who doesnt know where hip hop came from. name one. just one. you dont think snoop knows? how bout fabolous? mase? 50? nas? lil flip? lil john? jkwon? lil scrappy? david banner? outkast? common?method man?rza? little brother? jazze phe? baby? r kelly? mos def? hi tek? eminem? nelly? luda? lil kim? ja rule? twista? just blaze? jay dee? track boyz? heatmakerz? l.e.s? alchemist? cash money? 3 6 mafia? ugk? 8 ball & mjg?
im pretty sure they all know where hip hop came from, every last one of them. how many of them make hip hop that "stay true to the roots"? how many of them fit your vision of what "the roots" would represent?
yuo are in a fantasy, my friend. knowing that some guy used a turntable and sampled an old song has no bearing on what they did as artists. all of these guys do not reflect that in their music. do they?
name any artist that you feel DOESNT "stay true to the roots", and chances are- 500 to 1- that he knows exactly where it came from, and how it started.
well, your post showed that we CAN agree, because you agreed with me (partially)! i didnt really view it as an argument.
yuo said what i said- these guys dont appreciate the art so much as the money.
the rest- "i think people with the knowledge make better shit and stay loyal to hip hop"... not true.
we know puff knows the roots. he spearheaded the jiggy era. hell LL IS part of the roots! he is nothing like his younger self. at all. name any commecrially succesful, radio friendly, synth produced mc and he will rattle off names like run dmc, whodini, rakim, krs, full force, slick rick, shan, etc.,... guaranteed.
you are basically saying that people who know where hip hop came from will make it a certain way along the lines of the mold of what it once was- and while you stated that it was just your opinion, but im telling you that opinion is wrong. name one artist who doesnt know where hip hop came from. name one. just one. you dont think snoop knows? how bout fabolous? mase? 50? nas? lil flip? lil john? jkwon? lil scrappy? david banner? outkast? common?method man?rza? little brother? jazze phe? baby? r kelly? mos def? hi tek? eminem? nelly? luda? lil kim? ja rule? twista? just blaze? jay dee? track boyz? heatmakerz? l.e.s? alchemist? cash money? 3 6 mafia? ugk? 8 ball & mjg?
im pretty sure they all know where hip hop came from, every last one of them. how many of them make hip hop that "stay true to the roots"? how many of them fit your vision of what "the roots" would represent?
yuo are in a fantasy, my friend. knowing that some guy used a turntable and sampled an old song has no bearing on what they did as artists. all of these guys do not reflect that in their music. do they?
name any artist that you feel DOESNT "stay true to the roots", and chances are- 500 to 1- that he knows exactly where it came from, and how it started.
gram green
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
anyways why was this law passed? ... did someone take it to court or something?... and wasnt it already a law? ... i dont understand what the deal is... i heard some cats at work talkin bout it today too... i guess its gettin some news, but seriously what is different... its allways been the case that if you use someones shit without their permission you can get sued IF you made loot of it...
gram green
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
hey also i guess the creators of sound modules can sue you for using their sound banks to make music... and the motif company can sue you for using their sounds on their shit huh... triton too... wow
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
huh? that wouldnt make ANY sense whatsoever... big difference bewteen using the sounds on a keyboard and taking a performance from an artist... is that really part of this law, or is that you being sarcastic?
T
The Bastard
Guest
honestly i dont even know what your talkin about anymore ,1/2 of the people u listed ''the ones that most likely have the most knowledge of hip hop'' are still makin ill hip hop usin breaks and loops , whut im sayin is that people that say that shit is simple or not right need to pipe the fuck down cuz thats how hip hop started
Cold Truth
IllMuzik Moderator
i asked you
"how many of them make hip hop that "stay true to the roots"? how many of them fit your vision of what "the roots" would represent?"
you said half of them make what you consider good music. exactly my point. they all know where hip hop came from, they all are influenced by the same people, and yet half of them make decidedly different music from the other half. they all know where it came from... that aint have anything to do with their music, now does it? it doesnt change anything. i didnt say that they had "the mos tknowledge of hip hop" at any point, so i dont know where you got tha tqute from..
and nobody said anything about sampling being simple or not right in this thread (as far as i can see, perhaps i overlooked something).....
even so, just because its how it started, that doesnt make it NOT simple, either, because yes a straight loop with drums is damn simple, now that has nothing to do with whether its dope or not... how it started aint have a thing to do with that.
"how many of them make hip hop that "stay true to the roots"? how many of them fit your vision of what "the roots" would represent?"
you said half of them make what you consider good music. exactly my point. they all know where hip hop came from, they all are influenced by the same people, and yet half of them make decidedly different music from the other half. they all know where it came from... that aint have anything to do with their music, now does it? it doesnt change anything. i didnt say that they had "the mos tknowledge of hip hop" at any point, so i dont know where you got tha tqute from..
and nobody said anything about sampling being simple or not right in this thread (as far as i can see, perhaps i overlooked something).....
even so, just because its how it started, that doesnt make it NOT simple, either, because yes a straight loop with drums is damn simple, now that has nothing to do with whether its dope or not... how it started aint have a thing to do with that.
T
The Bastard
Guest
''Good. Now producers will have to be more original. I fucking hate 80's samples from Puffy'' that was the comment i was talkin about
I don't know if anybody mentioned this already but let's also read in between the lines so to speak. These laws regarding sampling musical works, breaks, basslines, etc, are directly impacting the one musical genre where sampling is an old tradition: Hip-Hop. It sounds to me like it's more about money than anything else, they meaning the original copyright holders or publishers of the sampled works, see the money being generated by the Puff Daddy's, the Kanye's, the Dr. Dre's of the music industry and they want their piece or should I say A BIGGER PIECE. I'm quite sure when those judges made the decision to institute these new laws they didn't think about how this would impact the creativity of Hip-Hop or Rap music, they saw the dollar signs!
In my views Hip-Hop IS allowed to retain it's traditions but still move forward progressing, but some of the people in charge of Hip-Hop aren't innovating creativity and change so that's why we hear people sample blatantly with no fuckin reason why and they don't push the envelope because they already know the sample will hold it's weight they don't have to do much else to the song. Easy pay day! Analyze any other musical genre and you'll see that most of them all retain their roots and traditions as far as how the music sounds, how it's played what instruments are primarily used, and Hip-Hop is no exception. I see this ruling as more of an attack on Hip-Hop culture but it won't stop us because we are too creative (most of us) and those that aren't being creative, won't be bling blinging anymore.
In my views Hip-Hop IS allowed to retain it's traditions but still move forward progressing, but some of the people in charge of Hip-Hop aren't innovating creativity and change so that's why we hear people sample blatantly with no fuckin reason why and they don't push the envelope because they already know the sample will hold it's weight they don't have to do much else to the song. Easy pay day! Analyze any other musical genre and you'll see that most of them all retain their roots and traditions as far as how the music sounds, how it's played what instruments are primarily used, and Hip-Hop is no exception. I see this ruling as more of an attack on Hip-Hop culture but it won't stop us because we are too creative (most of us) and those that aren't being creative, won't be bling blinging anymore.
jaydub23510
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
BASTARD said:
I agree 100% on everyting you said, but it is a place for the synth guy (timberland, swizz beats,neptunes) as well as the sampler (alchemist, just, kanye,heatmakers) this thread could continue for 10 pages and all you guys would be saying the same thing, I 2 believe you have to know where you come from to know where you're going!!! NO matter how you look at it roots hip hop is a mixture of sampling hence ( two turntables, a mixer, and a mic) and a blend of live instruments, I do believe in the next 10 years of hip hop you'll see more (Bands) or live hip hop (ROOTS) with real drummers and such, that's why I LOVE GO-GO so much, I'm sure CLASSIC and BIGD, And DEFINITION can attest to that!!
Cold Truth said:
For your information CT, most of the guys that sample only do it to get the sounds not the actual performance, you might have a sample with 5 instruments on it, and chop it into pieces and create your own melodies, I'd rather buy a $1,000 sampler and have unlimited sounds, than buy some crappy keyboard for $1500 and in 3-5 years those sounds be played out!
Cold Truth said:
CASIO will sue your ass for using there sounds with out permission ask SWIZZ!
bigdmakintrax
BeatKreatoR
Basically what is going to happen is this....labels usually required you to report the sample especially if it sounded like it was a sample you had to explain that sound and where it came from......now with this....I think that labels aren't going to really want to fugg with anything that sounds even remotely close to having been sampled, except for any of their existing pools of samples that they own or previously paid for.....even though this ruling just went down theoretically it was always the case....anything that didn't belong to you should be stated up front.......but like I said b4.....about 98% of us are below ground so it won't really matter until someone wants to come at you with major money for one of your pieces of work....