Swing/Groove

[Iron Keys]

I've recently started trying to use Groove/Swing function again, but i find it to sound a little un-natural.

Also, what parts of your track should stick to the groove?

For example, if I had a 70% swing on my kick drum, what else has to follow this? I imagine the bass does? But isn't everything else going to have to?

If it doesn't, it sounds 'off', if it does, it sound un-natural.

Especially trying to program other percussion over the top, it sounds too jerky.

Would love some help on this area.

 

[DJ Excellence]

Most of the time I set the swing @ 100%. And yes everything else has to follow: bass, percussions,chops.

For example, if I had a 70% swing on my kick drum, what else has to follow this? I imagine the bass does? But isn't everything else going to have to?

 

[LDB]

Here's the thing about swing....if you aren't use to the way it sounds it will appear off to your ears. The true essence of swing to give your music a human feel as opposed everything being quantized. I personally don't like everything in my tracks with swing applied but certain intruments have more life with swing or a groove applied. Depends on on the genre or subgenre of music also. For example authentic dirty south beats have little or no swing while westcoast and eastcoast joints do.

 

[Iron Keys]

Most of the time I set the swing @ 100%. And yes everything else has to follow: bass, percussions, samples.

Thanks, bruh.


Is it more common than not for producers to work with a high swing value?

I've used it before successfully, but most times it just stands out too much, and doesn't sound natural. Especially when I try programming hats/percussion on it.


If anyone got any tips to working with swing, would be aprpecated,

 

[LDB]

Thanks, bruh.


Is it more common than not for producers to work with a high swing value?

I've used it before successfully, but most times it just stands out too much, and doesn't sound natural. Especially when I try programming hats/percussion on it.


If anyone got any tips to working with swing, would be aprpecated,

Snares and certain hats hit at the same cadence....them swinging can throw things off. The bass drum, kick and bass gtr can swing. The best advice I can give is to take tracks from diff't genre's and try and reproduce them. That should teach you about swing.

 

[DJ Excellence]

Just like LDB said, it depends on sub-genres. Most "east coast" producers work with very high values.

If swing bothers you, perhaps you shouldn't force it.

Thanks, bruh.

Is it more common than not for producers to work with a high swing value?

 

[Iron Keys]

Here's the thing about swing....if you aren't use to the way it sounds it will appear off to your ears. The true essence of swing to give your music a human feel as opposed everything being quantized. I personally don't like everything in my tracks with swing applied but certain intruments have more life with swing or a groove applied. Depends on on the genre or subgenre of music also. For example authentic dirty south beats have little or no swing while westcoast and eastcoast joints do.

Ahhh thanks for that, man.

At the moment trying to go for something with a little bit of Timbaland influence, so trying to get that right bounce on the kicks, and trying to figure out how to get the percussion going right.

 

[Greg Savage]

I've recently started trying to use Groove/Swing function again, but i find it to sound a little un-natural.

Also, what parts of your track should stick to the groove?

For example, if I had a 70% swing on my kick drum, what else has to follow this? I imagine the bass does? But isn't everything else going to have to?

If it doesn't, it sounds 'off', if it does, it sound un-natural.

Especially trying to program other percussion over the top, it sounds too jerky.

Would love some help on this area.

Everything else does not have to follow...If you have your drums swinging at 60% the rest of the track doesn't need to swing at 60% its going to be determined by how your track is sounding...

I never swing everything at the same % sometimes only swing a few elements and play everything else live

 

[Sucio]

Sometimes I put the percussion as a whole on the same amount of swing......

Sometimes I do the entire track with swing....

I don't go too crazy with it......usually around 25%

It's good to have swing in your music...even a little bit so it doesn't sound too robotic..... A little can go a long way.

 

[Iron Keys]

With swing, doesn't 50% = no swing???

I'm sure I remember in cubase, 0% = no swing. But in sonar (and on some websites I've seen) 50% is no swing, and 0/100% swing are just swingin' the beat earlier or later???


Thanks for the insight, guys.

 

[LDB]

Ahhh thanks for that, man.

At the moment trying to go for something with a little bit of Timbaland influence, so trying to get that right bounce on the kicks, and trying to figure out how to get the percussion going right.

Swing at around 66% at 1/16th should give you pretty good bounce. It usually requires some doubled up kicks, ghost notes at diff't velocities. A ghost note is a note that's there but at such a low velocity that it really doesn't stand out.

Imagine you going "ba boom, ba boom-boom", the ba before the boom is the ghost note which is basically at a much lower velocity than the main kick. You can do the same with snares and hi hats.

 

[Iron Keys]

Swing at around 66% at 1/16th should give you pretty good bounce. It usually requires some doubled up kicks, ghost notes at diff't velocities. A ghost note is a note that's there but at such a low velocity that it really doesn't stand out.

Imagine you going "ba boom, ba boom-boom", the ba before the boom is the ghost note which is basically at a much lower velocity than the main kick. You can do the same with snares and hi hats.

Yeah, I recently started to try and ghost my kicks, don't think I've got it down too well yet.

The ba boom-boom just gave me some inspiration though.


Again, much love for the insight.

 

[Greg Savage]

With swing, doesn't 50% = no swing???

I'm sure I remember in cubase, 0% = no swing. But in sonar (and on some websites I've seen) 50% is no swing, and 0/100% swing are just swingin' the beat earlier or later???


Thanks for the insight, guys.

50% Swing = 50%... I can hear 50% swing vs 60%,70%,65%,58% etc...

I've never really used Cubases Swing. My experience has come from using the following

Mpc 3000
Reason
Dp
Pro tools

in all those 0% = no swing

 

[lion-ucs]

thing about swing. most ppl miss out on the fact that velocity is often more important than the time adjustment. The variations in velocity will make your drums sound more humanize than simply turning the swing/shuffle knob.

 

[Iron Keys]

50% Swing = 50%... I can hear 50% swing vs 60%,70%,65%,58% etc...

I've never really used Cubases Swing. My experience has come from using the following

Mpc 3000
Reason
Dp
Pro tools

in all those 0% = no swing

In Sonar, 50% Swing is equal to straight 16ths. to lessen the swing pulls the timing back, to increase pushes the timing forward.

But as I said, in cubase I'm sure 0% was = 0 Swing.

But i've also seen swing mentioned elsewhere that 50 = none, then either side = various sides of swing.

 

[Greg Savage]

In Sonar, 50% Swing is equal to straight 16ths. to lessen the swing pulls the timing back, to increase pushes the timing forward.

But as I said, in cubase I'm sure 0% was = 0 Swing.

But i've also seen swing mentioned elsewhere that 50 = none, then either side = various sides of swing.

Interesting

 

[LouBez]

alot of good info so far...

for my personal taste I like my kicks at around 60 to 63%...Ill nudge the snares back the tiniest bit...and typically the hats will be the same as the kick or maaaaaybe swung a little more depending on vibes... chords i usually have hard quantised...leads I like to play by hand until it sounds right...

but in short no you dont have to swing globally

 

[Greg Savage]

but in short no you dont have to swing globally

Word... imo that's like the worst thing you can do to a track...just my personal opinion though

 

[LDB]

The quickest way to get a "robotic" track going is to quantize things like bass gtr, piano, any kind of chords, synths and even if you play everything at full level velocity go back and edit that shit when you're done to change the velocity. Don't quantize "natural" instruments man....that shows severe production immaturity. The "key" to playing instruments on the keyboard is to possibly trick the listener into thinking you had live musicians playing and if you quantize instruments that a live musician could actually play you're making your music sound "unbelievable" (and not in a good way). If it's not some synthetic drums like 808, 909 etc that you know from the tone is not a real drum don't rely totally on quantization.

And some things in you're drum pattern especially need to be "dj friendly" so they need to be quantized. You can have things swing and be quantized at the sametime! Dj's don't like to spin shit they can't mix and if theres no on beat constant in the song they're least likely to keep it in rotation!

 

[zeek]

mpc2xl,4k,2500,1k,5k : 50% = straight 16ths

ya'll ever see this video?
@ 1:07

for me usually snares are always quantized. kicks, for me anyways, sometimes, but usually always ending up on the 1's anyways. then the hats for me get a little of my own shuffle. but in the end it all depends on the track.

swing is interesting thing tho. depending on how the rest of the elements in the track are working, a slight shift in the hats will have completely differant vibe, and if you use those same settings on another track, it will not work.