Studio Sound Engineer

[Quality]

Bro - I want you to post this exact question about Full Sail on the Gearslutz.com forum and see how many PROFESSIONAL and TRIED and TESTED engineers will:
a) tell you how wrong you are
b) you're wasting your money
c) will laugh in your face because they know Full Sail is bullshit.

Why did I mention Full Sail? Because it's good? Man, you're logic is in the crapper - if I mention Hitler and berate him like I berated Half-Sale, does that mean I said his name because I "respect" the guy. Come on. Hitler is shit and Full Sail is shit.

You're defending Full Sail because you committed to them, so you don't want to feel stupid you dropped 16k on a worthless education you could've got interning and working your way through the ranks like the top engineers.

Hold on - did Dr. Dre go to Full Sail? Did... uh, Andy Wallace go to Full Sail... uh, did Chris Lord-Alge go to Full Sail? I mean, you're in engineering - you should know at least who the last two names are right?

Get real, man. INTERNING and HUSTLING is what counts.

You make a few points there, but all I was saying was that you used FS as the example because it is one of the main schools for engineering. Sure you may think FS is the biggest shit in the toliet of engineering schools, but that just proves that you know it is the biggest. I'm not just defendin it because I'm going into this program, I honestly believe every word I said about it.

Who the fuck cares if some of the big name producers/engineers didn't go to school for it. They did make it through their hustle, drive, and a little luck. But who says you can't go to school for it to help you learn some of this shit first before you are hustling on your own? The main reason why I decided to go there is because it will definitely help set me up in the right path with all the connections that will be made. Do you think I will be able to just fuckin land an internship with no experience engineering at all and with hardly any connections?? I know that I will learn most of the technical stuff on the job but FS is legit when it comes down to gettin that experience. Don't just call somethin BS soley on second hand information bro.

No disrespect at all, I know that you know your shit when it comes to the industry. But I disagree with you on this subject. I think that going to FS will provide the oportunites, and finding the interships will be hella easier after I learn what to look for. No doubt though, interning and hustling is the main thing. It just won't happen though if you don't know what the hell your doing goin into it.

And in the end if it all doesn't work out, atleast I won't have to look myself in the mirror everyday knowing that I didn't give it a shot. I'll move on to somethin else and live without regrets.

 

[Formant024]

i only have a slightly relevant remark as im not in the US but i can only name of one succes story and that is dj swivel, mostly there are just cats who did FS. I've been to SAE but im not interested in learning how to operate to most common studio appearal known because they are the tools of the trade. I do however feel that the focus in these schools are biased to the sponsors which makes it brilliant advertising and maintaining certain products as industrial standards and the way of knowing wether these products are the best over another product is to have the experience on the alternatives, analogues and devices that have no means of automation or saving presets. In any case, any one can get up to par and develop good engineering skills in 2-3 years without having any classes at all and even those who have finished a school in engineering would need 2 years to develop preference over techniques and choice of gear to establish themselves worthy of spending more than the minimal income as a recording engineer.

I dont like being a recording engineer, i have the skills to mix but in the end i'd rather keep consulting upon mixing and recording rather than actually sitting in the control room recording other peoples work, unless its an oppertunity but than id rather be exec. producer. I just think im to creative myself in order to spend most of my time doing other projects...trust me, a dedicated engineer has no time to establish his own productions when working full time, let alone be in the mood to do something for himself when you're confronted with 8 hours sessions (or longer). In short, if love making beats then keep the appetite, else the chances are you will lose it and audio engineering becomes just a job.

Ok, so whats to be considered a PRE in this record engineering business..skills!
obviously, im talking experience with HIGH END gear..there are a 1000 choices of pre amps available and only a fool defends his NR1 pre amp ...because one pre amp is more suitable than the other in a certain event makes knowledge of oem, models and series far more important than a sheet of paper stating that you know how to work with pro tools. Its these choices and knowledge that makes you a valuable engineer as you have some valuable experience/tips to provide. Im not stating that knowing all the high end gear is a pre but without it you're nothing exceptual so why not get a carreer in broadcasting somewhere (lol). Anyway, if you want to be a recording engineer than dig into studio knowledge, that mpc is not your aim, the new prism AD/DA are, being able to recognize a larc, why do studios keep using a ds-201 when you have gate plugins. EL distressors, wtf, theyre hot but studio's do get rid of em..you gotta wanna know the answers to provide your product and exploit it. You wont learn these in school.

 

[7thangel]

knowing high end gear isn't vital as it isn't rocket science, having a overstanding of signal flow, working fast (shortcuts and such), taking initiative, staying quiet until asked (but not undermining a producer client), and following instruction are when starting out.

overstanding the marketplace and opportunities in your area, city, country. research the studios, post and music, live sound, etc, as well as schools and pro's and see what they say. investigate the future prospects. basically do some serious research before making any choice to either go to school or the choice of school made.

back before moses parted the red sea, i went to school, it got me a job as an engineer, but after 2 years i lost interest and drifted into the streets. while eventually putting even music on the backburner i eventually got back into making music about 2-3 years ago, i was given an opportunity to go back to school again, i went, as i was trying to get a way in to post audio. the school, around for about 12-15 years, has established itself as a place that has graduates all over the industry up here. even if someone slacks the eff off, the contacts, and therefore the hidden job market, whether as an intern or an employee, is there where it might have been a little more limited if not for the school. the tuition is the lowest i've seen (one 'franchise 'school' was charging 25 k, with no visible success to even get encouragement from, but they had nuff fine ass chicks, due to the other courses, fashion and acting/film. it folded in this city). anyways, as all the instructor were still working in the industry, it was an advantage,. of course some course were lacking (both in the technical focused and the business focused programs)

i just finished not to long ago, i'm not doing post because in my 2nd term i got a part time, now full time in a small studio, which i'm liking a lot (no longer a kid), a few other classmates got opportunities and are working in places they most definitely wouldn't have gotten without this particular school. but at the same time, there are some that a lackadasical an haven't jumped on opps, even when told not to wait for school to be done. we were constantlly told the reality of the industry and the current opps, as well as, told that if a job comes up before graduation or the final term, take it, schools is just another means but not the end all or guarantee. but that's just the world as it is. some would have been better not going to school.

as far as interning, regardless how you get there, if you don't take the initiative, do a lacklustre job, or like this spoiled bitch made dude from the previous graduating class that got at least 2 opps in one of the last remaining big post studios, and the other one of the few remaining big music studios, be an asshole, do nothing worth remembering, and not doing the above and get let go from interning (dujmb ass).

i will say this about full sail, i don't think it's a good choice, never mind the ridiculous tuition, it's rep is not good, and that can affect your opps. there's a school that's been around for a long time but it's never had a good rep, not from people in the industry, employers or students, and because of that, they're at a disadvantage to damn near anybody. so if you're still dead set on going to school, again do some more research

i'm audie, got to go to work

 

[God]

Bart 5 says in bold: You make a few points there, but all I was saying was that you used FS as the example because it is one of the main schools for engineering.

- The main school for conning cats out of their money. Kind of like those "Art Institutes."

Sure you may think FS is the biggest shit in the toliet of engineering schools, but that just proves that you know it is the biggest.

- Yeah, the biggest shit in the toilet.

I'm not just defendin it because I'm going into this program, I honestly believe every word I said about it.

- You're defending your choice, you don't want to feel stupid and proven wrong. I understand it - it's human nature to try to be consistent with your actions.

Who the fuck cares if some of the big name producers/engineers didn't go to school for it. They did make it through their hustle, drive, and a little luck.

- I care, because if I produce a record, you're sure as hell not mixing it, but Chris Lord-Alge is. He didn't go to Half-Sale.

But who says you can't go to school for it to help you learn some of this shit first before you are hustling on your own?

- Thousands of dollars in tuition fees thrown down the toilet. Would've rather bet it on roulette in Vegas.

The main reason why I decided to go there is because it will definitely help set me up in the right path with all the connections that will be made. Do you think I will be able to just fuckin land an internship with no experience engineering at all and with hardly any connections??

- Yes, hundreds of people who don't have connections get internships.

I know that I will learn most of the technical stuff on the job but FS is legit when it comes down to gettin that experience. Don't just call somethin BS soley on second hand information bro.

- Second hand information? LMAO. Bro, this ain't second hand information.

No disrespect at all, I know that you know your shit when it comes to the industry. But I disagree with you on this subject. I think that going to FS will provide the oportunites, and finding the interships will be hella easier after I learn what to look for.

- It's not, dude. You're just being used. The next "class" of "ProTools" certified fools will come in and be coffee runner for the chief engineer.

No doubt though, interning and hustling is the main thing. It just won't happen though if you don't know what the hell your doing goin into it.
- All the big names didn't know all the pro shit off the top. They learned it hands on. Not in front of a Neve that's barely used anymore.

And in the end if it all doesn't work out, atleast I won't have to look myself in the mirror everyday knowing that I didn't give it a shot. I'll move on to somethin else and live without regrets.

- You'll want that $36,000 back. That's regret.

Seriously man. I wouldn't waste the money.

 

[thedreampolice]

Why do you want to be an engineer? Its crazy hard work for low pay. I worked 40 hour weekends (fri,sat sun) for years and scratched out an OK living at best. Its easier and easier to make a good recording. Big studios are dying....home studios and user created content are the future. Entrepreneurship is the way to go, find your niche and make some money!

 

[Kontents]

^^^
I would love to endulge into the idea of Entrepreneurship, but I cant live of the idea of hopes and dreams I need to have a backup plan or somthing to fall on you know. More or less I could get an AA degree in Studio Engineering at a community college for less then 3k and have somthing to show for it. I just dont want to know persue somthing or pay BUKU bucks on a certificate program.

 

[thedreampolice]

Read all the books on Entrepreneurship you can. I will share my list if anyone is interested.

 

[Kontents]

Put it on Down my friend

 

[thedreampolice]

Ok First read
Total money makeover by Dave Ramsey he is a conservative christian but this is the best finance book EVER! Follow this book and be a millionaire period. ok now that your finances are in order grab
How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie if you cant properly motivate people you will never make it in business then
Think and grow rich by napoleon hill WOW this is a book I read at least once a year. AMAZING!

if you follow the principles in these 3 books I can basically guaranty you will be a millionaire in the next decade. Also check out

Moonlighting on the internet (great business ideas)
48 days to the work you love (very spiritual but an interesting look at finding joy in your work)

hope that helps.

 

[The Arkitekt]

if you follow the principles in these 3 books I can basically guaranty you will be a millionaire in the next decade.

just curious lol, are you rich or on your way there? maybe i need to pick up some books

 

[thedreampolice]

"on your way there?"

Yes, still working on it. But these are sound books, not get rich quick. Just old school money advice that your grandma would give you. At this stage in the game if I do NOTHING else I will be worth about 5 million when I retire. But thats 30 years off. So I am going to get other things going NOW to kick it up a notch.

 

[djswivel]

Being a studio engineer is a dying profession. No disrespect to illmuzik, but this is a link to something you're talking about:

1) http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high...gh-end-people-where-do-i-start-my-career.html

2) http://www.gearslutz.com/board/search.php?searchid=16654903

The second link are tons of other posts there on the same question, this was the quickest one I could find to get you started.

It's on a board of real studio engineers that consistently work with platinum artists across all genre ranges.

From my personal standpoint, and I am not an engineer though I know HOW to engineer and HAVE engineered in the past - for-profit "colleges" are creating programs that lure hopeful students wanting to make it into the "glamorous" world of production or post-production, only to find that they are competing with hundreds if not thousands of graduates for the same studio-assistant positions. These "colleges" are taking advantage of your hopes and dreams for an engineering job.

These are colleges like Full Sail, for example, which are a joke. You don't need to go to such a school and shell out thousands of dollars for a "ProTools certified" certificate. It's a joke, most studio engineers worth their salt think these colleges are a joke - because you have to prove yourself IN the studio and WITH the clients.

I'd rather hire a cat that went to Mississippi St. University rather than Harvard if that cat had more common sense and knew how to manage people better than the Harvard cat. You feel me?

You'll be fighting against these "graduates" and out of work engineers who have a ton of experience (they're out of work since the industry is contracting.) It's a dime a dozen - just like picking up women in LA who think they're "actresses" or "models." Connections, my friend, lift you above the fray. That, and a lot of common sense.

Anyway, hope that helps.

Just saw this thread, thought I should add my 2 cents....


I work as an engineer. That's my main profession, although I produce and DJ as well.

As far as my clients, right now I'm recording Fabolous' new album, but over the past 3 years I've worked with just about everyone. Kanye, Jay-Z, Mariah, Diddy, Pharrell, Britney Spears, TI, Nelly, John Legend, Alicia Keys...and the list goes on

It's not an easy gig, that's for sure. It requires a lot of talent, as well as business and networking skills, and the fact is, there's only a handful of people who do it in a big way. Although not quite there, I'd like to think I'm on that path. I work for Duro who is arguably the best when it comes to urban music, so aside from learning from the best engineer, I get to work with the best artists and producers.

What I will say though, is I didn't have any hookups or connects or knowledge when I decided I wanted to get into music. I went to Full Sail, graduated at the top of my class and moved to NY knowing nobody. So my point is, anyone can do it.

As far as it being a dying profession, that's bullshit. Given, lots of artists are building their own project studio and maybe even recording themselves, but mixers will always be around. Many people can hit record and track some vocal. But it takes real talent to make it sound good, and that will never die. Technologies change, studios change, but someone still needs to make it sound good. And in fact, with the fact that many artists track their own vocals, that just means the quality is even worse. So it means there's more work for mix engineers to fix up a bad recording.

Also, real engineers worth their salt don't frown upon these schools. I have had my fair share of assistants who didn't go to school for it, who were terrible, and I would likely never work with them again. Full Sail is a little expensive, I will say that. But there are other relatively affordable engineering schools that offer the same educational foundation. And I would rather have an assistant with a solid foundation than one who never went to school. School exemplifies discipline.

I remember I was working with Swizz Beatz several months ago, and he was recording vocals on a track, I think it was the TI - Swing Your Rag song. Can't remember, I've don't a lot with him. Swizz was in the booth, and an intern just walked in the booth as he was recording. This is an intern who I don't believe went to an audio school. If he had, he would know that you never walk into a booth when a sessions is going on, EVER. Although he was a little annoyed, Swizz is a fairly patient person so it wasn't the end of the world, but if it had been another client, it very well could have been. Schools teach you a lot more than just how to push a record button, things that many people trying to get into the business who don't attend school would never know. Studio etiquette.

I can't knock any person who decides to further their education and go to school. If engineering is your dream, then that's where you should go to school. Pursue the dream, and don't worry about if it's going to be stable. If you really love it, then work hard, get good grades, spend lots of hours in the studio, do a good job, and doors will start to open for you...

 

[AFfriKkAaa]

Swivel, thats crazy. Respect man. How long since you left Full Sail?

What I really wanna know tho is - How did "said intern" get an internship!? I mean walking into a booth when dude is recording is a pretty basic error! If you don't know that you shouldn't be working in a studio surely!?

 

[djswivel]

i graduated full sail in august of '05

 

[kaivai]

I went to SAE for 6 months and did a foundation course in audio engineering, there was no production tutorials whatsoever, just straight up in the studio recording technique and theory as well as live environment sound, and that gave me the foundation that swivel speaks of. Afterwards I threw myself wholeheartedly into doing amateur recordings which allowed me to get invaluable experience that i could take into a studio at some point in the future. Not only that but I sometimes record as a voice-over artist inside various studios working with freelance engineers and I just watch and ask questions just to let them know that I'm interested in what they are doing and to help the process a bit more, if the engineer can communicate to me in the booth how we could achieve a better sound I'm definitely on the same wavelength so i adjust accordingly. As well as all of this I'm currently studying getting my business degree (majoring in marketing and commercial law) and i do wanna go to NY once I've finished and work my way up the corporate ladder.

I respect where God is coming from the facts are that there are thousands of competitors in the field, the fact that the amount of people on the forums are debating this is evidence. I do think that it ultimately comes down to work ethic, ambition and experience. Work on gaining that trifecta and do not limit or censor yourself, go hard or go home.