Should a CD have more or less

[UNORTHODOX]

I'm finnishing up a project and i have about 9 songs people say they like, and the other 5 is,..some do, some don't. My question is should i put out only my absolute best, or should i just put all the songs on the CD and let the people at least have the material. the whole point of my release is to see how my style will be recieved and to just get some material out. thnx in advance.

 

[Kontents]

QUESTION: How many people feel different about the 5 other songs? is it more or less a few people like it, but more people dont?

Some things work and somethings dont. So determine out of the 5 "ok" or average tracks what tracks are good out of them. And then add the one(s) that stand out the most or received a better reaction.

 

[eldiablo]

give it all to them, that way your next project will be fresh. aint no use to hanging on to materiaL

 

[2nd_Man]

I'd say the most important thing is to get a coherant album. if the songs fit in the album, and play a part, then keep them. if the songs are disliked because they dont really ft with the album, then dont include them.
the best albums have a coherent message, a consistant vibe and feel, and they sound complete. you should aim for that

 

[thedreampolice]

Always put your best foot forward. If you can make an amazing album from start to finish, that will leave people wanting more. If the other songs suck, dump them and dont look back.

 

[Relic]

Diablo had a good point, you never know who will like what, but dont forget that the main goal is to give the people what they want, if the people want crap give them what they want, if they want club bangers , do it!
Just make sure you have what the people want.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

thanks for the input. to kontents slightly more people, like those few songs. they seem to give a quality contrast to the better songs and allow people to "chill" a bit more. I'll put most of it on there in between the Great songs and will offer the others in an mixtape or a promotional download or something.-thanks

 

[God]

Here's something that will skew it differently.

Why not release each of your strong songs separately and timed (every week, or every other week) on your web site or MySpace page. That way - people will look forward to your new song and keep coming back.

I know a few cats who have adopted this model, and it works for them - since this is a new era of "digital music."

If you don't believe me, a billionaire and even Jermaine Dupri (as well as other cats) basically believe the "album" is dead. Focus on releasing hot singles every "season" or every 2 weeks:
http://www.blogmaverick.com/2008/01/17/the-album-is-dead/

He's not a hiphophead, but he's a billionaire businessman - so he must have decent judgment about something.

 

[2nd_Man]

Then you ask the question
Whats more important to you? Making more money, or making music.

I must b honest, i havent read the article, so sorry if its in there. But how did the guy become a billionaire, in what industry, whats his back story

 

[God]

Then you ask the question
Whats more important to you? Making more money, or making music.

I must b honest, i havent read the article, so sorry if its in there. But how did the guy become a billionaire, in what industry, whats his back story

Do I look like a reporter? Read the fucking article. The header answers your question. Shit man - have to hand feed you this shit?

 

[Fade]

Do I look like a reporter? Read the fucking article. The header answers your question. Shit man - have to hand feed you this shit?

Relax, he's just asking a question. You could have easily said "Please refer to the article, it will answer your question". Take it easy.

 

[Relic]

LOL not very Holy...

Good article tho.

 

[DJ Excellence]

Mark Cuban ? He's nuts !

He just got lucky , selling his web radio business during the dotcom bubble to Yahoo for a record price.

 

[eldiablo]

Relax, he's just asking a question. You could have easily said "Please refer to the article, it will answer your question". Take it easy.

LOL not very Holy...

Good article tho.

haha! does someone need to put god in his place.

 

[Relic]

Not me devil!!

Dont even take it there..lol
Jeez you ARE the Devil!

 

[God]

Ha. Man, didn't mean to offend cats. But read the article. Dude has a point.

 

[2nd_Man]

Yeah sorry on my behalf for not reading article, have read it now.
It's interesting, the album and the album concept has never really change, theres been slight variation and that was it. Like when Universal started doing the new CD design, that was weird it was something different.
You could make the comparison to automobiles, since the dsign has been perfected, gears, steering wheel, four wheels, pedals etc. the essence of the car hasnt really changed at all. Yes its developed alot with technology, but the essence is the same. In the past weve heard about revolutionary designs in cars, and we still do, but its never really happened.
So whilst its a poor anaology, you can see how, since albums have been around, whilst the format we listen to it on has changed, its still the same concept. And its hard to see it changing.
However, no industry has really been hit by the rise of the Internet quite as music has, and it could change it.

On the point with not looking forward to release dates, I still do. I ignored the leak of tha Carter 3 (yes i know how people feel about it, but thats not the point here), and waited for releae day, when I went out and bought it. I then listened to it, looked at the album artwork, and admired it for an album. I hope theres lots out there like me that still appreciate the idea of an album, and see it as a peice of work, like a gallery is to art. And I think whilst theres still such people, the album can never die out.

I can certainly see something like that working, especially from a financial side.
But then I retrun to my previous statement, Money vs Music. Music as a business versus music as a form of art. I appreciate them both, dont think Im an arty type, Ive got a business head as well.

I can see the single release being more of a Soulja Boy, Flo-Rida type thing. But i certainly can't see people like Kanye West, Jay-Z, etc. wanting to give up their albums, to them its a work of art, something great, and it will remain that.
Also consider that this often applies mainly to Hip-Hop or Hip-Pop, other genres aren't going to buy the idea up as much.

Another point, the market for CDs in Africa is rapidly developing, and of course this is going to be of interest to hip hop, as it's got the potential of being a huge market. Africa also doesn't have the infrastructure in place so computers and Internet conenction especially arent accessible to all. Making CDs further more attractive.

Sorry for the long discussion and many points, all completely off the original topic, just some views. Sorry for the length as well, Im currently having a break from revising for an Economics exam, so Im in a long essay writing mindset.

In answer to 'CD, more or less'. go with what feels right for you, i think ultimately you can look at the different ideas and strategy, look at what you want to achieve, and youll kind of know whats right.

 

[God]

Yeah sorry on my behalf for not reading article, have read it now.
It's interesting, the album and the album concept has never really change, theres been slight variation and that was it. Like when Universal started doing the new CD design, that was weird it was something different.
You could make the comparison to automobiles, since the dsign has been perfected, gears, steering wheel, four wheels, pedals etc. the essence of the car hasnt really changed at all. Yes its developed alot with technology, but the essence is the same. In the past weve heard about revolutionary designs in cars, and we still do, but its never really happened.
So whilst its a poor anaology, you can see how, since albums have been around, whilst the format we listen to it on has changed, its still the same concept. And its hard to see it changing.
However, no industry has really been hit by the rise of the Internet quite as music has, and it could change it.

On the point with not looking forward to release dates, I still do. I ignored the leak of tha Carter 3 (yes i know how people feel about it, but thats not the point here), and waited for releae day, when I went out and bought it. I then listened to it, looked at the album artwork, and admired it for an album. I hope theres lots out there like me that still appreciate the idea of an album, and see it as a peice of work, like a gallery is to art. And I think whilst theres still such people, the album can never die out.

I can certainly see something like that working, especially from a financial side.
But then I retrun to my previous statement, Money vs Music. Music as a business versus music as a form of art. I appreciate them both, dont think Im an arty type, Ive got a business head as well.

I can see the single release being more of a Soulja Boy, Flo-Rida type thing. But i certainly can't see people like Kanye West, Jay-Z, etc. wanting to give up their albums, to them its a work of art, something great, and it will remain that.
Also consider that this often applies mainly to Hip-Hop or Hip-Pop, other genres aren't going to buy the idea up as much.

Another point, the market for CDs in Africa is rapidly developing, and of course this is going to be of interest to hip hop, as it's got the potential of being a huge market. Africa also doesn't have the infrastructure in place so computers and Internet conenction especially arent accessible to all. Making CDs further more attractive.

Sorry for the long discussion and many points, all completely off the original topic, just some views. Sorry for the length as well, Im currently having a break from revising for an Economics exam, so Im in a long essay writing mindset.

In answer to 'CD, more or less'. go with what feels right for you, i think ultimately you can look at the different ideas and strategy, look at what you want to achieve, and youll kind of know whats right.

I think the analogy is wrong. I also don't like the fact that albums may be "non-existent." I believe, to a point, that a lot of rock albums go to the 11 song limit because that's the maximum an original songwriter like a band, can get from an album regarding legally protected royalty structures (for rap you generally have more songs due to more people involved in the creation of the pie - so exec producers make the pie "bigger" so a proportionally same amount of royalty is extracted from the album as a rock album)- so the more songs, the After that, shit is negotiable. That hurt the art.

From a business standpoint, you don't know if you're sitting on the next Flo-Rida or Soulja Boy unless you have a lot of focus group testing. Even then, you can't possibly expect to predict exterior factors (marketing influence, payola, spins) to make the song "pop." I can only sit and look at a focus group report and say "okay, this track is hot - the stats say this one isn't."

If I look at my calendar or rumors/intel from other companies I can see what the release date outlook for the other companies are. How does that fit? If a song has good focus group testing, and I'm sitting in an open quarter, where NObody is dropping a hot album for x weeks in my demo- I'll make moves to get the single out. Even if an album is not 'done'. It would be stupid of me to drop a new album the week Lil' Wayne is dropping Carter III. That would kill the career of my artist.

So I sit there and say "how the fuck do I maximize my artist's potential for return on investment (so I don't get fired) with as little investment as possible (because budgets are dropping - in 1999 a rap group could secure a 2-5 million dollar budget for an album. Now - you have people like 50 Cent looking at buying beats directly from online producers at 3K a pop to minimize risk on their initial investment (royalties are the payoff, as well as publicity generated from the album that works in tangent with the artist's other potential business ventures.) The whole business has changed.

iTunes also created a singles market where people are going to pay for the hot song, not the album. If I want to increase profit with minimal investment, what are cats doing? They're dropping singles. Hiphop and country music are the two places where dropping a CD still is a profitable endeavor on a major level. Why? Demographics and income disproportion (I know the underlying argument, and it's sad, but that's the fact.) Cats in the hood are more likely to still cop a CD because they haven't fully migrated to an iPod/computer/whatever demo because of social injustice/bad opportunities. Same with country and its demo. Rock suffers because they're a different demo, and you're lucky if a band goes platinum anymore because most cats that listen to rock download a torrent or buy the mp3/flac/whatever.

Africa is an emerging market - but why would I want to invest there if there ISN'T infrastructure yet. Plus, CD coptying and piracy occurs on a level comparable to the Chinese. So - it's not profitable - although when things get settled there - hopefully it will be profitable. There aren't good intellectual property protection laws there to make sales profitable. In most of the developing world it's not profitable to market albums - and the profit is usually small. Also, different countries have different governments - so there isn't a uniformity to distribution. In Japan, there used to be so many "middlemen distributors" for a CD that the final cost of a CD that should have cost 15 bucks cost 40 dollars. The distribution, for CDs, kills. Also, there aren't many countries that have a strong internet infrastructure - and that would only support minor CD sales. Off the top of my head, South Africa and Kenya are two places stable for CD commerce. Kenya is having problems now too.

Anyway, I gotta go, but hopefully that sheds some light on why - if you know your demographic - a CD is sometimes not the best thing to drop. I would drop singles, gain traction and hit up the blogs. One of the bloggers will probably like your music and then you can drop your "EP" or whatever afterwards - and leverage that to find some management. You'll be steps ahead of the cat that "dropped his album" and then wonders why he's not making an impact. You'll be like the other cats that are rappers looking for some form of exposure. Sometimes it's better to release stuff over a period of time rather than all at once -and generate press and traction from each release. That little press and traction - added up - gives you more leverage when trying to "break through."

If that's not your cup of tea, well - I gotta go.

 

[2nd_Man]

Yeah, I wasn't so much saying the article was wrong, just debating some other points.
I'd like to thankyou for your insight into this, business and music are my two main passions, but I'm still young and know relitively nothing, so thanks.
That's amazing, a $5m budget for an album, wow. And I can see how the business has changed, in that just 10 years ago, the big names were the big names, they made the money. Now, as Soulja Boy has proved, it's possible to break into the industry.
Yes I completely overlooked copyright law in Africa, and yes theres many problems. But would there be, in the near future, the possibility for countries such as Ghana, who have a huge multinational presence from Western countries (namely Unilever), to develop further economically, develop the infrastructure and the governmental stability which could allow the potential of the market to be realised?
I was generally try to make the point, that whilst a large segment, of the hip-hop market especially, is made up of the hit successes, it is not true for the whole market. The article seemed to hold the beleif that the album is dead, and had no future, and I think this is a false conclusion to draw. Especially whilst the Internet market is still young and undeveloped.

 

[God]

Yeah, I wasn't so much saying the article was wrong, just debating some other points.
I'd like to thankyou for your insight into this, business and music are my two main passions, but I'm still young and know relitively nothing, so thanks.
That's amazing, a $5m budget for an album, wow. And I can see how the business has changed, in that just 10 years ago, the big names were the big names, they made the money. Now, as Soulja Boy has proved, it's possible to break into the industry.
Yes I completely overlooked copyright law in Africa, and yes theres many problems. But would there be, in the near future, the possibility for countries such as Ghana, who have a huge multinational presence from Western countries (namely Unilever), to develop further economically, develop the infrastructure and the governmental stability which could allow the potential of the market to be realised?
I was generally try to make the point, that whilst a large segment, of the hip-hop market especially, is made up of the hit successes, it is not true for the whole market. The article seemed to hold the beleif that the album is dead, and had no future, and I think this is a false conclusion to draw. Especially whilst the Internet market is still young and undeveloped.

Unilever makes soap and detergent. Let me guess - the other huge multinational presence is Colgate-Palmolive. They make toothpaste and more soap. Wait - let me guess there's another huge multinational there - CocaCola?

The strength of intellectual property is the legal structure of the governments or the common markets/trade organizations that provide a strong balance for IP.

Naming companies that can create the soap or toothpaste in the country for a low cost (since the ingredients of soap plus cost of labor is cheap) is easy. The same for Coke. They give the bottler the "ingredients" and it can be made in Ghana under license.

The potential for a MNC to make money in developing nations is easier with such tangible products rather than products like music or movies that can be easily pirated and sold on a street corner.

Also, most of the hip-hop market is held on the shoulders of the successes. This enables record companies to cover the losses of the other 95% that are not successes.

So when you quantify the market - 5% support the 95% who don't make a profit. So yes, statistically, there are more signed artists that aren't "successes" in the realm of things. But a few that are breakout hits support the failures that don't bring a profit. It's kind of like horse-racing.

I think Cuban's right since that's the prevalent feeling in the industry right now that singles are the way to go. There is never goiing to be a good DRM or copy-protection solution to stifle hacking, so there have to be creative ways to keep it a music BUSINESS. In order for reaching out and promoting huge artists that people like, there is a high overhead that needs to be paid for. So you have to figure out a compromise.