Relationship between Gear and Creativity?

[Griffin Avid]

Relationship between Gear and Creativity?

Are the two linked in a positive or negative way or not at all?
I've read and heard:
1. The more gear you have the less creative you are.
2. Trying to solve a problem or finding a workaround leads to experimentation and new discoveries.
3. Todays happy accident is tomorrow's trend.
4. Limitations spark the imagination (okay I said that one)

It would seem since hip hop/rap was born out of adopting and adapting tools and sounds, it's a little confused in regards to What To Do Next.
Samples were about digging, now it's about surfing.
A loop was a precious find, now it's an easy buy.
Each producer had to find their own chopping system, now it's a button or slider away.
A workflow was your secret, now it's a youtube video.
Gear was a personal choice, now it's a forum poll.
Lo-fi was amatter of fact, now it's a matter of choice.

Under the weight of all of this, I'm wondering why the envelope isn't being pushed by the majority of producers. And I do mean majority. Ableton Live [insert sequencer of choice if you must] is so powerful, I'm wondering why there hasn't been an emergence of an original technique that can only be done in Ableton. Same with software and all the claims of flexibility and ease of use- why nothing new from the software users or producers with these monster ROMpler workstations?

They seem to keep putting more and more power in the producer's hands, but music is still steadily slipping. We are still chasing features we don't need and don't use. Maybe it's cultural and the whole Disposable Attitude is to blame. Maybe it's too many choices and everyone is too scared to be wrong. I need to use everything minimally instead of one thing masterfully.

A deep understanding requires a deep commitment. Don't expect a meaningful relationship from casual or short term contact.

Man I'm full of quotes today.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I have always been limited by what gear I use due to money limitations. The positive from this is that I have learned how to use what I do have very well. Im happy using what I use and dont like to add too much beacause each new element of gear added to the setup is further learning and time taken in using to get an efficient and comfortable workflow going with it. I have recently added Pro Tools to my gear but I have found that it dramatically slows my workflow as Im learning as I go. And have to figure out how to do even the simplest of things.
Having all the gear(hardware & software) in the world wont make the best producer, knowing how to use a small selection of gear that acheives the results you are after will make a better producer IMO. I find learning a new DAW very daunting, but learning pro tools I feel is an invaluable tool in final mixing so worth adding to the arsenal.
I dont like gear to mess up my workflow, I like to get a track popping as quick as possible and then spend most of the time tweaking and equing to get it all sounding right. To me the most important thing is workflow, I dont want ideas to get lost in the setting up of gear.

 

[mono]

Under the weight of all of this, I'm wondering why the envelope isn't being pushed by the majority of producers.

maybe there is no need to re-invent the wheel. especially in hiphop. i see the envelope being pushed in electronic music / nujazz, all that uptempo & breaksstuff. it sounds way more comprehensive than it did a few years before.
but hiphop is simple.
and i dont know if theres that much innovations in all the software, basically its just about packing former rack-functionalities into a computer. but i do feel like gear limits me in a certain aspect; all those nice visual interfaces entrap me to work too much with my eyes instead of using my ears.

 

[Formant024]

1. The more gear you have the less creative you are.

This is all based on your experience with gear, only experience will provide a preference over your choice of blends (makes/models/specifics). Generally speaking, this would not apply to workstations as there is no additional experience to gain from bread&butter romplers. Now these workstations do have a VA side but I never seen any hiphop cat who actually used it in a VA approach similar to tweaking techno, so perhaps you gain a little synthesis knowledge but nothing on what brand synths would create a certain sound. This is a somewhat purified perspective on hiphop's preference for instruments but i keep seeing this huge technical contrast between the 2 genres and this is basically due to 2 reasons; instrument handling, requirements. If all the noobs would purchase an Acces Virus instead of a Triton or Motif, even if you would switch to software, you would know how create a bass and situate that in a mix without ever seeing a bass preset. This is just a difference, not a setback as the requirements for hiphop productions impose yet a different approach of creating a good track on which the foundation of track lies in a different aspect of the composition. Simply put, techno builds up towards the climax of a track where a hiphop track would find its climax at the very first drop of a beat, bass or sample... its either hot or not. The handling of the production and the requirements for techno (whether you like it or not) do demand more attention and subtlety in production and mixing which you can translate to a steeper learning curve opposed to hiphop production. I say this to all novices, hiphop or not, but just grasping the production concept takes in the least 3 years and then the fun starts because then you have the experience and requirements to develop your signature sound. That also implies that by then you develop preferences for gear, from that moment mostly, the experimental phase is over and the drive to acquire selective taste through this experience is the key to perfecting your interpretation of creating that killer track. You will not have this knowledge if you start out making beats and already have the 4k, triton, motif, mv etc but if you purchase instruments that are specific make, dedicated to a single instruments( not an all-in-the-box, groovebox ) than i can only assume you would acquire a proper judgement on good gear a lot faster...you would think things over when you can buy a synth for 1500 bucks or a groovebox for 1500 as the dude spending 1500 bucks and only gains 1 synth might not be the fool you think.


2. Trying to solve a problem or finding a workaround leads to experimentation and new discoveries.

That is pretty much learning the basics, but simple things are not necessarily easier. Like i said before and also from my own experience, the first 3 years are either a burden or fun through experimentation, it will pass once you learn to see all the tiny little details you can or should enhance. In the end its about finding these details and treating them for the desired outcome and these details are partly determined by your selection of gear. In the regards to non-instrument gear, its all about recognizing your way of being to produce in the most intuive setup possible...again, these i think also a sort of requirement in general but in regards to hiphop i must add that everything is possible. People get succes with the wackest stuff when it comes to hiphop, but i think this only applies to chart related hiphop.



3. Todays happy accident is tomorrow's trend.

Sadly enough lol, there is no way keeping track with this, just do your thing, if your hot you get picked, if not, you copy or spaz out doing your thing. Trends say shit in book lol I mixed dnb in 95, its only until last year that the city had a monthly event. Tiesto makes a minor remix of some 90's rave stuff and now thats hot...in the end its history repeating and i think hiphop picked that up first in an original way, sampling history -> create something new. Today however, no matter the genre, its about remixing and covering over and over and over and if it isn't remixing a song then its remixing era specific music. Like that crazy crack bitch re-introduced that 60's sound back into the charts and immediately

4. Limitations spark the imagination (okay I said that one)

Agreed, less IS more



Under the weight of all of this, I'm wondering why the envelope isn't being pushed by the majority of producers. And I do mean majority. Ableton Live [insert sequencer of choice if you must] is so powerful, I'm wondering why there hasn't been an emergence of an original technique that can only be done in Ableton. Same with software and all the claims of flexibility and ease of use- why nothing new from the software users or producers with these monster ROMpler workstations?


Because the actual technology has been the same since it was invented, same principle applied in different ways. Like all synthesis are all based upon formantsynthesis in one way or another..i mean, a synth without a filter is hat you call a keyboard (roland E16 anyone lol)


They seem to keep putting more and more power in the producer's hands, but music is still steadily slipping. We are still chasing features we don't need and don't use. Maybe it's cultural and the whole Disposable Attitude is to blame. Maybe it's too many choices and everyone is too scared to be wrong. I need to use everything minimally instead of one thing masterfully.

Right on the money, except being scared is not the issue, you be you or copy shit properly. You gotta be able to deliver with minimal requirements by mastering each parameter possible but im basically just trash talking here when i see the latest crap on tv.

Gotta have more features, people need more interpretation skills hehehe

 

[Griffin Avid]

I like your take on everything except this part.

The handling of the production and the requirements for techno (whether you like it or not) do demand more attention and subtlety in production and mixing which you can translate to a steeper learning curve opposed to hiphop production.

Absolutely not true. Your favorite Techno verse average hip hop maybe.
Synths like the named Access TI are nick-named trance synths because of their patches- meaning you could get a right techno joint going just by slapping together a bunch of presets behind a common beat. Just like any ROMpler can...

There are VST synths that will generate a whole techno tune with one button press just like there are sample libraries with construction kits.

Every genre claims this about the others: Mine is hard, yours is easy to do.

Since hip hop started as a sampling sport with material based on real world instruments- it's a natural progression(?) to make original music(?) from those same instrument groups- thus the bread and butter categories.

ROMplers are rough in the synth department just like synths are rough in the traditional instrument category. You're also combining sound design, sound selection and composition.
learning how to make a bass tone doesn't mean my song is going to have a great bassline.

If you want to make music that sounds like a band you don't buy an access synth or any other VA. Even a digital is reaching.

The hit or miss nature is a tough one to work with.
You get 2 seconds to make an impression and the listener doesn't need to give you a chance. 'hmm maybe I'll wait 4 minutes into this to see if I really like it. Maybe it will evolve.'

Plus it's about the place to be. What's the point of judging music out of context? Ever seen an intellectual think about music instead of feeling it? Ever see someone take apart a club song and spend too much analyzing and evaluating the lyrics? Ever play something with a message and have the listener focus on the beat?

 

[Formant024]

I like your take on everything except this part.

The handling of the production and the requirements for techno (whether you like it or not) do demand more attention and subtlety in production and mixing which you can translate to a steeper learning curve opposed to hiphop production.

Absolutely not true. Your favorite Techno verse average hip hop maybe.
Synths like the named Access TI are nick-named trance synths because of their patches- meaning you could get a right techno joint going just by slapping together a bunch of presets behind a common beat. Just like any ROMpler can....

Most techno and usage of the sounds are based on modulating, again, ive never seen a hiphop cat tweaking a squelching bassline over a beat, whether that may be "average" hiphop or not, in hiphop you wouldnt be as much pressed to do so. Modulating emphasis your knowledge on designing sounds, you could automate it but it still requires a better understanding The acces virus has 32 knobs and indeed its a trance kit if you use it like you described but it still a poly 2osc synth, actually you just hit it on the nail right there, use of presets perhaps some cats discover the cutoff but that really it as you generally dont modulate sounds in hiphop or have a preference for any synth with a specific sound. In this regard i condiser techno to have a steeper learning curve but a faster way of learning those basics quicker than you would flipping presets, or working with boxed solutions.

 

[Griffin Avid]

Modulating emphasis your knowledge on designing sounds..

Assuming I'm not using a preset that has modulation already programmed in.
I can bet the Virus TI has presets with...guess what, modulation programmed into some of the patches.So I can take advantage of that without ever diving under the hood. Sync to Host is another one-button-solution. The Andromeda A6 has tons...tons of modulation capabilities. What great understanding about modulation do I need to use it? None.

use of presets perhaps some cats discover the cutoff but that really it...

You learn what you want to. I can learn about articulations, accents, playing styles like Legato, portamento...arps all from tinkering with a ROMpler. I can even discover new instruments just from cruising the soundbank. Oh so that's a Dejembe. I can even reverse engineer synth patches to learn what does what. Hell, you can analyze the demo song in a ROMpler and learn about mixing and effects.

I can utilize the expressiveness tools of most ROMplers and add all kinds of dimension- same as twisting a synth knob/filter in real time.

It takes the same amount of time to reach similar levels of skill in all genres.
It's short work to be average and possibly a lifetime to be brilliant.

You learning how to modulate something isn't a study in advanced musical theory - it's a study of your synths menu system. Same as manipulating a sample in a sampler.

In an overall sense, different genres focus on different aspects of musical expression composition and sound design. What your chosen genre tends to focus on doesn't make it any deeper, artistic or worthy. It's childsplay to name stuff we hip hoppers care about and trance dudes don't. It will always be one example verse another.

 

[Formant024]

lol, you're basically proving the difference between hiphop producers and the rest...you dont need to know squat about modulation because its in preset already.. of course they are, thats why they provide a modulation matrix and have cats like hollowsun and rob papen, opposed to that there are people that create their own patches and even use a modulation matrix, then they save it as a user preset. From this preset you also provide modulation manually by tweaking the knobs, even when you are you using the modulation matrix already, but is not a common thing in hiphop production (not saying it isnt suitable for hiphop). Hence the preset minded people wouldnt be pressed to use these feature nor be motivated to understand them which is just a loss on its own as this is also just one of the aspects of production. Second, a bread & butter rompler still wont develop a sense of preference for specific instrument sources. None of you would actualy buy a moog if you want/need a moog synth even if you never heard one... take the easy way (and cheaper of course) and use the plugin instead or the closest thing when flipping presets. Than there are cats that do spend a fortune on stuff but cant explain why they purchased the mini over a source or a memorymoog. These arent concerns eventually, the downside of it is due to the fact that that producer isnt able to determine what synth is good for what purpose as thats solved with little necessity for quality and an all in the box solution. Like you can purchase a unit which emulates a fender and a hammond for 200 bucks and say you have found a solution to your requirements but heck, the real fender really doesnt sound that shitty but 200 bucks wont get you there...would you save up for the fender and buy that first....most cats wont, they want to lay down a beat fast and get props even faster while none is really being selective. Cat be buying that andromeda and play with it using 2 fingers, cat be buying that mpc and keep working in reason...these people couldnt explain why they purchase pieces of gear except when DJ xxx uses it to make such an such beat... Yo, i never see techno producers mention they purchase a unit because bla and bla also uses them, its not relevant you see, they all got the basics down and it down to preference, they dont need presets to be convinced about the quality of unit because they wouldnt be using them, theyre conversation on quality or reasons why a certain machine should be aquired is reasoned over through the specifications/electronics. Perhaps a bit nerdy, but at least they know what theyre talking about...in all and since ive been producing ive learned to see that there is technically no difference between electronica bases genres as they all use the same equipment no matter how you look at it except for hiphop the requirement for production is less critical. The only reason you need a synth in production, looking at the current state of "successful" hiphop, is for the reese and bass, plenty of presets indeed lmfao.

ow yeah, im guilty too i recall, i once purchased a U110 with all the expansion board as it all the sounds from the Prodigy Experience album. I never even used the unit hehe, its rackfilling lol.

 

[Griffin Avid]

To make a long thread short, all you are doing is running with generalizations. You need to separate production techniques with the genre itself. They are two different things.

You have an exact guy in your head that is what you’re calling EVERY HIP HOP PRODUCER.
It’s a stereotype and quite off bass. You need to do some actual research before you make these sweeping statements and expect them to hold water.

You’re trying very hard to be an elitist and prove objectively using grand generalizations why trance (producers) stand above hip hop (producers). It’s a silly exercise.

rob papen? That’s who you grab as a trance guy to show what the average trance guy does?
Laughable. Trance guys don’t use VSTs- or even cracked VSTs? They all buy gear for its deep feature set? Techno producers don’t care what the producers/djs are using?

there is technically no difference between electronica bases genres as they all use the same equipment no matter how you look at it except for hiphop the requirement for production is less critical.

They all use the same equipment, but hip hop has less critical requirements?
Make up your mind.

Visit other electronic forums and hip hop forums and see what the focus is.
It’s not as black and white as you imagine.

 

[Formant024]

You have an exact guy in your head that is what you’re calling EVERY HIP HOP PRODUCER.
It’s a stereotype and quite off bass. You need to do some actual research before you make these sweeping statements and expect them to hold water.

I'm not talking about my personal preferences, stereotyping yes but thats my perspective as an European amongst a US influenced music industry. Its how you perceive commercial hiphop in the charts, non of the hiphop heads are up for it unless it native...those that do listen to it are 16 or drunk in the club dancing (guilty). Those same hiphop heads to listen and buy hiphop from anywhere but top commercial hiphop heads in the charts, well, none of the heads i know ever said that the latest lil' was kinda good without getting whacked to the head.

You’re trying very hard to be an elitist and prove objectively using grand generalizations why trance (producers) stand above hip hop (producers). It’s a silly exercise.

whatever dude, im not stating hiphop producers stand above anyone or vice versa, thats really besides the point. If you ever meet timbaland then ask him about Teebee, both good producers from a different genre but when put together, I bet Timbaland would learn quite a lot from Teebee technically than the other way around. None are better than the other but Teebee simply gives Timbaland the ability to interpretate his instruments in a different fasion to his favor and these things are always basic mixing, signal processing, basic synthesis...a lot of it is basic but you cant simplify by purchasing the best stuff you can get.

rob papen? That’s who you grab as a trance guy to show what the average trance guy does?
Laughable. Trance guys don’t use VSTs- or even cracked VSTs? They all buy gear for its deep feature set? Techno producers don’t care what the producers/djs are using?

Rob papen is the one making the factory shipped presets for quite some gear and the man behind lin plug, its not genre related but he did make some popular trance minded banks, im not taking reference of trance but technoid dance music in general, Jeff Mills if you like. In regards to trance, i think 70% of those producers are in dubio and switch back and forth between software and hardware, the elite of those mostly do build up quite a setup yeah, but damn, these last few years gave birth to god knows how many trance producers wacking out tracks at home on just a daw. I think if you're a freak you just do it anyway but i think in general that people build their setup with a budget and limitation in mind and just want to grow with succes as that provides more space for more gear besides the obvious...having it all...but again, what i implied to is that a techno producer is not quick to ask which synth currently is the dopest to create basslines..you would not get an answer but another question in reply, its building that preference and knowing what parameters to look for, which trademark sounds to acquire to deliver the ideas you have in mind.

Again, im going by the basics, its an example which does not contain half stepping on any detail in regards to production, hiphop or not.

there is technically no difference between electronica bases genres as they all use the same equipment no matter how you look at it except for hiphop the requirement for production is less critical.

They all use the same equipment, but hip hop has less critical requirements?


Like stated before, its not necessary to develop a taste for modulation and preference for pieces of gear with distinct trademark sounds when it comes to hiphop. You already mentioned the well received existence of presets and I also derive this idea considering the huge amounts of daw/workstations being sold or found on gazillions of want/have-lists of hiphop bedroom techies online, i'd love to see that confirmed on sales figures. Other than that we use the same gear, hardware or software, i believe that makes no difference. Its a matter of instrumentknowledge and personal preference to decide why or what instrument to use for whatever purpose but you find the same tools in any studio. I mean, you could have an 808/909, JP8000 and whatever sampler and still make hiphop though someone might "stereotype" it as a techno setup.

Make up your mind
Im a nonconformist bounded by the basics of all facets in regards to music production, from scratch to delivery. In this i believe its best to recognize all the limitations and prinicipals of the aforementioned as its the best way to learn how to interpretate all features and options into results. I wont ever make up my mind, to me its a matter of having enough perspective to utiltize all them details as good ideas and intuitive workflows, but THE one solution to template the ideal doesnt exist, nor do i care find it/create it.

 

[Griffin Avid]

You need to visit more forums. It's not a genre thing, it's an experience thing.
I see tons of threads on all forums asking about tools.

I make elctro-house, what's a good synth for me?
I want to sound like [insert artist] what synth should I buy?
There's a sale on an [insert gear] is it worth it?

You will see someone say get a JP8000 as a starting point just like the MPC. No difference.
How do I do this?
How do I get this sound?
What do they use?
Listen to this song and tell me about the sound at 03:45
How do I make a crackin snare?
How do I make my kicks deeper?
Any books on synthesis?


Visit Tweakheads, Gearslutz, Musicradar, vintage synth explorer, harmony central etc.
You will see these kind of posts.
Again, it's not a genre thing; it's an experience thing.

In a funny sense, you didn't know something before you knew it. No one is born with an automatic understanding of music production. Most learn by doing. I doubt anyon edecides on their first day of making music to be cutting edge, avant garde and wholly original.

Someone influenced you to make music in a particular fashion. There was always a sound you wanted in your own production you heard somewhere else first. There's a technique you wanted to add in to your skill set so you studied it.

Honestly, this whole angle has numerous holes in it. While you praise the Access Ti and all it's modulation capbilities and such someone else is laughing at your short cut, easy way out synth while they build a modular. And they will say the same thing about how much quicker they are learning and how much more they know about synthesis- and thus their style is 'better/more advanced' than yours.

Someone else is circuit bending and thinks using technology as it is is weak.
Someone else is using Reaktor and looking down on your 'synths limitations'- whatever you claim you can do that makes you special- they can top it and go one further.
Someone isn't even making traditional music. They think western musical ideas are a limitation in itself. Someone else by the very nature that they use an analog synth is laughing at your DSP powered beast. Modeling? Ha!

Someone things PROGRAMMING is unmusical. JAMMING is where it's at.
If you think Techno/Trance etc producers are somehow immune to the tendencies of being brand new I don't know ...we'll agree to disagree.

for every good claim you make about your genre, someone else can make a good claim against it. And as far as I've heard, there's crappy/poppy trance dominating the charts over there too.

 

[2GooD Productions]

There has been crappy poppy house music in europe for longer than I would have liked.

I think your point is that its down to the producers personal preference.
Isnt that the whole point of music as an artform, a way for the musician to express THEMSELVES through the music. How they do it is down to them, even if it means an elastic band and a cardboard box and harmonica.
The gear is just the means to an end, the end is what matters.

 

[Kontents]

The producer is the artist and the insturments are their paints. YOU choose which color to paint with, not the mass.

 

[Formant024]

lol

you honestly think im a trance producer ? You assume as if im stating one is better than the other or that trance producers are better than hiphop producers, to me thats really besides the point. Experience is definitly the key yeah, but the experience is limited imo and i cater to that level of experience to keep learning, im saying that presets and daws in the box have a bigger learning curve. We're still using the same tools as before this daw-for-everyone situation but hands on control has a far better result when it comes to the learning curve. I use techno as an obvious example because back in 94 there were some of the best producers in regards to how to utilize just about anything you could sample, sync, control cv/gate or midi with. i dont think there are a lot of cats who can achieve the same even though we have the same tools right now, not even new school techno producers, simply because it does demand less to get a convincing result.

 

[2GooD Productions]

lol

you honestly think im a trance producer ? You assume as if im stating one is better than the other or that trance producers are better than hiphop producers, to me thats really besides the point. Experience is definitly the key yeah, but the experience is limited imo and i cater to that level of experience to keep learning, im saying that presets and daws in the box have a bigger learning curve. We're still using the same tools as before this daw-for-everyone situation but hands on control has a far better result when it comes to the learning curve. I use techno as an obvious example because back in 94 there were some of the best producers in regards to how to utilize just about anything you could sample, sync, control cv/gate or midi with. i dont think there are a lot of cats who can achieve the same even though we have the same tools right now, not even new school techno producers, simply because it does demand less to get a convincing result.

Yeah I have to agree, the process of getting decent sounds out of the gear has been made a lot easier and less demanding for the producer, which also affects what the producer needs to know.
If something can be achieved easily with a quick tweak of a preset, then whos going to waste time synthesising it from scratch. The production in that respect is less technical. I was a big fan of the UK dnb music, it was heavy on the technicalities, and to some extent still is. I have to agree with Formant, that making good dance music is dependant on the technicalities. I have tried making my own dnb but it always seems to lack that depth of the tracks I love to hear. I dont get technical enough with it, and the result is half-arsed.