Question for trap producers... how to get 808s consistent across various sound systems?

[Dusty B]

I've actually for the first time in ages been on a plugin chill... I don't really feel an urge to buy any plugins.

There's still a few I want.

Not sure if this is because I'm no longer making music, because the adverts are only hitting my emails, or because I haven't had the chance to use some of the good ones I've bought.

I'm cutting it for a bit, maybe one here or there, but I've been building my stash of drums and plugins for the last 6 months or so since getting back into it.

Realistically there's nothing else I need. Time to just master what I have is the mindset I'm trying to tell myself to stop from hoarding stuff may slow down my workflow since I spend a lot of time learning a new plugin vs just making a beat.

 

[Kane the MOD]

I'm cutting it for a bit, maybe one here or there, but I've been building my stash of drums and plugins for the last 6 months or so since getting back into it.

Realistically there's nothing else I need. Time to just master what I have is the mindset I'm trying to tell myself to stop from hoarding stuff may slow down my workflow since I spend a lot of time learning a new plugin vs just making a beat.

This is a very good idea. I feel that tutorials and new plugins are often a distraction from getting shit done.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Both R-Vox and R-Bass are very easy to use. They are invaluable to me personally. I am in no way affiliated with Waves, and given their recent behaviour I dont like to promote them as a company, but, those 2 simple plugins are must haves IMO.

 

[Dusty B]

Both R-Vox and R-Bass are very easy to use. They are invaluable to me personally. I am in no way affiliated with Waves, and given their recent behaviour I dont like to promote them as a company, but, those 2 simple plugins are must haves IMO.

Yeah I'll have to check out rbass in particular, as an exception to my "rule" haha.

What did they do recently as a company?

 

[2GooD Productions]

Yeah I'll have to check out rbass in particular, as an exception to my "rule" haha.

What did they do recently as a company?

They tried to make their business model subscription only, took a huge dump on everyone that had perpetual licenses in the process, also as @Iron Keys said, they charge you for updates. Due to the response they had to backtrack. But it just shows how greedy they are. I dont really intend to update my waves plugins anyway and will stick with the versions I have.

 

[Iron Keys]

They tried to make their business model subscription only, took a huge dump on everyone that had perpetual licenses in the process, also as @Iron Keys said, they charge you for updates. Due to the response they had to backtrack. But it just shows how greedy they are. I dont really intend to update my waves plugins anyway and will stick with the versions I have.

@Dusty B

Yep and in addition to it being an incredibly shitty move... they made it even more slimey by informing everyone of this change by email in the last hours of Sunday (or something similar) that if you hadn't updated your licenses that's where they would remain (even if you had 2 free upgrades remaining).

Just really really slimey.

Waves were THE one back in the day. But now, imho, (they still have some good plugs) but there are a lot of other competitors doing better. That goes for both installation and payment etc, as well as of course quality of plugin.

Inho they're riding mostly off the back of their early success, and not in a position to be having a shitty slimey business model.

Anyway...

 

[OGBama]

You're @Iron Keys no longer making music? When? Why? How?

 

[OGBama]

I @2GooD Productions got R-Vox & R-Bass for free.

 

[Iron Keys]

You're @Iron Keys no longer making music? When? Why? How?

When - for a while now

Why - not having the time, resources, motivation, and current skill/vibe lately

How - erm, as above. And by not making.

I've also been focusing and thinking a lot more about mixing lately.

 

[Iron Keys]

I @2GooD Productions got R-Vox & R-Bass for free.

Jealous to miss the R Bass one - collection would be complete for me.

Ngl I don't even really use RVox and opt to hit my vocals with a few other quality compressors.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Jealous to miss the R Bass one - collection would be complete for me.

Ngl I don't even really use RVox and opt to hit my vocals with a few other quality compressors.

I dont really use R-Vox so much on vocals, I use it on my snares

 

[2GooD Productions]

I @2GooD Productions got R-Vox & R-Bass for free.

thats a nice result right there

 

[Ys Man]

How do you get your 808s sounding clean across various systems? I know, mixing. I've also read some articles on this. But I feel like I'm still struggling. So let me get specific.

Here's a beat I recently made where I used 808s on the low end instead of a bassline:


The problem: I can barely hear the 808s on my desktop speakers, they don't really come in on my wife's car either, but they sound great in my truck, on my headphones, some other systems, etc. But I know when I listen to mainstream artists/trap, I hear the 808s across all sound systems, even on my phone.

Here's how I mixed them for this track:

Sample EQ (I felt like the high end boost was already getting a little nutty):
View attachment 6827

Sample EQ (cut 20HZ + 18Khz cut):
I turned this off to test since part of me wonders if I'm cutting the lows/highs too much, but it didn't seem to change (just made things sounds a bit muddier).
View attachment 6828

Compression/Sidechain with the kick:
View attachment 6831

Attack: 0.04ms
Release: 51.99ms
Ratio: 4.1:1

Then when I was done with the basic mixing and arrangement, I sent the 808 to it's own Bass BUS when using Ozone's Mastering suite. I was noticing then that the lows weren't coming through on other systems, so I added some saturation and distortion to try and bring out the dynamics.

For anyone familiar with Softube's free saturation knob:
View attachment 6829

AND one of FL's distortion plugins (Blood Overdrive) at 19% mix level:
View attachment 6830

Then when I was monitoring everything with Tonal Balance Control, I was already often coming in above the desired low range, though I was just at the top of the range for the "bass heavy" preset. But that's why I didn't want to bump the volume anymore because I felt the mix as a whole was becoming too low.

Hip-hop reference:
View attachment 6832

Bass heavy reference:
View attachment 6833

So I eventually rolled with it because I felt like I couldn't do much else without really messing up my track by having too much bass/808.

I also use HoRNet's VHS, which is a frequency response correction plugin for mixing in headphones that helps to simulate room acoustics. Currently, I use a pair of Sennheiser HD 400 Pro, Audio-Technica M20x, and then just listen across my various home devices. I don't have any monitors, nor have I even really prioritized getting any since I don't have a treated room.

Is this a case where it's really about sound selection or am I doing something way off? Anyways, if you're still reading along, thank you! I welcome any and all advice!

Treat the 808 like any other bass, i think youre making the mistake of focusing on extreme sub when phones etc dont really register that very well to be honest, high end speakers dont really cover that range unless specifically a sub. For translation there needs to be presence in the punchy area and the snap area(down to 1k not 2 like the picture). Much like iron keys says and balance. The general rule or starting point i learnt is bass 80hz and kick 60hz use sidechain and eq to avoid each other then its about finding the balance with the rest of the zones. I think the big problem in your case is sound selection though you shouldnt need to do all that to an 808

 

[Dusty B]

Treat the 808 like any other bass, i think youre making the mistake of focusing on extreme sub when phones etc dont really register that very well to be honest, high end speakers dont really cover that range unless specifically a sub. For translation there needs to be presence in the punchy area and the snap area(down to 1k not 2 like the picture). Much like iron keys says and balance. The general rule or starting point i learnt is bass 80hz and kick 60hz use sidechain and eq to avoid each other then its about finding the balance with the rest of the zones. I think the big problem in your case is sound selection though you shouldnt need to do all that to an 808
View attachment 6845

Thanks man, appreciate your help once again.

 

[OGBama]

Re: @Dusty B plugin to beat ratio, I just nabbed a few good free Kontakt Player instruments in the past few weeks: Blueprint: Electric Piano, Shreddage 3 Stratus, Prism Drums Lite Edition, Sonuscore Pipe Organ and too many others to name!

 

[Iron Keys]

View attachment 6845

Thing I've grown to hate about these diagrams. Tho they can be useful... I think equally they can be damaging;

People start boosting or cutting these zones "just because" especially when you have zones listed negatively. People just cut. Do they cut because of something they heard? No, they cut because they think they must. Same for boost.

That's usually why you get these wonky af mixes.

I actually boost that 'negative' bass range a lot of times. You have to listen tho. Sometimes I find it's a great place for knock. Or some growl.

But you gotta listen to make sure it doesn't get nasty. Same for the "good" regions. Sometimes the source sound is already perfe t in that range.

 

[Ys Man]

Thing I've grown to hate about these diagrams. Tho they can be useful... I think equally they can be damaging;

People start boosting or cutting these zones "just because" especially when you have zones listed negatively. People just cut. Do they cut because of something they heard? No, they cut because they think they must. Same for boost.

That's usually why you get these wonky af mixes.

I actually boost that 'negative' bass range a lot of times. You have to listen tho. Sometimes I find it's a great place for knock. Or some growl.

But you gotta listen to make sure it doesn't get nasty. Same for the "good" regions. Sometimes the source sound is already perfe t in that range.

For a beginner this is valuable information, what you are saying is where finding the balance comes in, its always about trusting your ear but this is a solid starting point until you just know. But the picture was just to visualise the zones.

 

[Iron Keys]

For a beginner this is valuable information, what you are saying is where finding the balance comes in, its always about trusting your ear but this is a solid starting point until you just know. But the picture was just to visualise the zones.

For me as a beginner it fucked me up well into my intermediate stages. And even now I always feel uncomfortable le about boosting or not cutting certain ranges because of this.

But now I just listen. Does it sound better? Yes/no.

Cause even sometimes doing the right action for the right problem, doesn't always give the right solution.

 

[Ys Man]

For me as a beginner it fucked me up well into my intermediate stages. And even now I always feel uncomfortable le about boosting or not cutting certain ranges because of this.

But now I just listen. Does it sound better? Yes/no.

Cause even sometimes doing the right action for the right problem, doesn't always give the right solution.

You cant disregard good information cause you think it fucked you up, its information like this that gives you the knowledge of what sounds good in the first place, before actively doing music, as a listener you wouldnt know why something sounds good or not. From what you say you still use the lesson because you say "uncomfortable" but it is just caution in problem areas and you know this before hand, it is wise caution. As you know after learning the ranges then you cant start bending the rules, there would be no ai mastering etc if this information wasnt true and all mixing engineers with successful careers will give this same information. I didnt come up with it.

 

[Dusty B]

You cant disregard good information cause you think it fucked you up, its information like this that gives you the knowledge of what sounds good in the first place, before actively doing music, as a listener you wouldnt know why something sounds good or not. From what you say you still use the lesson because you say "uncomfortable" but it is just caution in problem areas and you know this before hand, it is wise caution. As you know after learning the ranges then you cant start bending the rules, there would be no ai mastering etc if this information wasnt true and all mixing engineers with successful careers will give this same information. I didnt come up with it.

right, as much as it's an art, there's still a science to mixing and the production steps.