Question about mixing

ill o.g.
This is kinda hard to explain but Ima mc and I have this guy making beats for me, he gets his beats mastered so do i need for him to send the beat tracked out to get a good mix when I go into the studio? I ask because if it doesnt then I can just lease the beats but if it will make a big difference then I have to get exclusive rights for all of them because I dont think he's going to send them tracked out otherwise.
 

Doc Vigilanti

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Depends on what you are going to be doing with the beats. If the beats are for a mixtape then non-exclusive 2-tracks are fine. If they are for an album then you need to go ahead and buy the exclusive licenses. You should also talk to the beat-maker if he will give out tracked out beats even with you purchasing an exclusive license.

Beat-makers(producers) are a dime a dozen these days, if the guy won't track out his beats for you if you purchase an exclusive license then I would find somebody else to get my beats from that will do it. Only because if the tracks are for an album you want them to be of the highest quality, which will reflect better on you and him.
 

scandal

Maker of Beats
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 178
I agree with doc, it really depends on what you plan on doing with the tracks. If your gonna get the stuff professionally mixed and mastered than I would say you should get the tracked out beat. if its something that your planning on mixing yourself and you aren't that great of a mixing engineer than I would say go with the producers mix as long as it sounds good, and just concentrate on making your vocals sound good. There are other advantages on buying the exclusive rights though and that is the fact that you are the sole person allowed to use that beat, leasing a beat can be kinda lame when you hear another artist on the same beat you paid to lease. just my 2 cents.
 

eldiablo

KRACK HEAD
ill o.g.
i would say not to worry about it. if you like the beat the way it is and your not going to make any changes to it, then you dont need the individual tracks. usually it is best to get the song mastered at the same time as the beat and the vocals rather than 2 different mixing and mastering engineers working on the beat then adding the vocals. thats just my preference though. as for lease or exclusive.. it all depends on how much $$ hes charging. and how many units can you sell. if you dont plan on making $10,000+ i would go the cheapest route. who cares if he leases the beat to someone else as long as you kill it.. and if anybody notices and your version is better, thats just more props for you.
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
Beatmakers that sell their beats "already mastered" quote unquote crack me up personally cuz it defeats the entire purpose of multi-tracking over the beat later with vocals and then sending the product out to get its final master (again....) . Your actually gonna loose fidelity if you send that beat through a mastering compressor or eq again since its headroom has already been squashed to virtually nothing in this day and age what with the loudness war.

If I were you, Id request to have the beat unmastered but mixed by the producer/beatmaker and sent to you as a 24 bit wav file, (stereo or tracked depending on what you have arranged in your contract)....
 

LDB

Banned
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 73
Beatmakers that sell their beats "already mastered" quote unquote crack me up personally cuz it defeats the entire purpose of multi-tracking over the beat later with vocals and then sending the product out to get its final master (again....) . Your actually gonna loose fidelity if you send that beat through a mastering compressor or eq again since its headroom has already been squashed to virtually nothing in this day and age what with the loudness war.

If I were you, Id request to have the beat unmastered but mixed by the producer/beatmaker and sent to you as a 24 bit wav file, (stereo or tracked depending on what you have arranged in your contract)....

Wise words and the ONLY way to go!!!! Why master a beat??? You master SONGS not beats....totally senseless!

Have this guy sell you the beat tracked out at optimal levels per track with NO effects on them and you pay your own mixing engineer to mix it and your vox. Sometime things in the track have to be lower, panned and or muted so the vox can sit RIGHT in the track. You are EXTREMELY limited with a pre-mastered beat.....
 
J

Jai Hutcherson

Guest
Hey Critical,

You need to get the beats raw, unmixed, and as individual tracks... i.e. kick, sn, hats, bass, etc etc etc each on its own track. Mixing is not putting a rap or vocal on top of a track that is already mixed. Mixing is about creating space for each individual track in the song to sit and be heard, "separation" If you rap and put your rap ontop of a mixed track you are basically doing karaoke. Your vocals will always either be too lud or too quiet. The only way you can get your vocals to "sit" in the mix and have the music envelop them is by giving your mix engineer or yourself if you are mixing the possibility to mix the music and vocals together. Mixing is about using eq to create space for individuals tracks to breath and not step on one another. You have to eq out cetain frequencies that may be stepping on other tracks. Like horns and vocals. Horns step all over a vocal because their main freq. is about 1k. that is exactly where vocal sit and poke through a mix. So if you have horns and vocals both competing for the same frequency one is always going to be too loud or too quiet. The solution is to carve out a bit of 1k for the vocal to sit with the horns and then it sounds as if the horns are blending with the vocals and sitting in the mix at a good level.

I agree 100% with the comment above about getting a mastered beat, once a sound has been compressed (mastered) it is done. Adding eq or compression again will only make the sound much lower quality. What you want is individual tracks with no eq applied, no compression applied, and no effect applied unless they make the sound. Like a delay on a sound might be the sound. But reverb on a sound does not make a sound and it needs to be added in the mix process. What if you want a tighter sound from a snare that has massive reverb on it? If it is there from the producer you have no options at mix. You have to leave it. You want clean tracks with very very limited effects or anything on them so you have as many options when you mix as possible. NEVER commit to a sound or a mix until all elements of the song have been recorded and you know what direction you want the song to take.

Again, I agree with comments above.... There are far too many producers willing to give you individual instruments on separate tracks to deal with a producer that wont give it to you that way. It is your song, you are buyin gor leasing the beat, this gives you full control to do what you want with the song. If you want to drop a snare track in the middle of verse 2 you should have that ability, a track track mixed or master beat gives yo no options what-so-ever. Most producers want to contral what their beat sounds like because of emotions. It is how they heard the beat when creating it so it is the only way they hear it in their head. But you as an artists might have another tilt on the beat. You sould be able to mix, mute, pan, drop sounds, or add what effect you want to highlight your rap. Its not the other way around. You are not rapping to highlight a beat. The beat is there to support your rap.

Producers, Im not dogging you at all. I have been in the studio business for 20+ years and this is just fact. Its what the industry does, and how things work. You have to let your beat go, let artists put their own twist on them, and watch them grow. Collaberation is a great thing and it really can make a beat transform into a hit!

Just my 2 cents....

www.TheMixStudio.com
Peace,
Jai
"love the MUSIC in Yourself, Not Yourself in the MUSIC!"
www.HipHopBusinessAdvisor.com
www.IamMusicNetwork.com
 

subvertbeats

Beatmaker
ill o.g.
Wise words and the ONLY way to go!!!! Why master a beat??? You master SONGS not beats....totally senseless!

Have this guy sell you the beat tracked out at optimal levels per track with NO effects on them and you pay your own mixing engineer to mix it and your vox. Sometime things in the track have to be lower, panned and or muted so the vox can sit RIGHT in the track. You are EXTREMELY limited with a pre-mastered beat.....

totally agreed.

Ive offered my mastering services as a prize on the battle that competition.
My offer is to either master the winners beat, if its an instrumental, or give them a mastering credit to use for when they have vocals laid on top
 

junxiwang

Beatmaker
ill o.g.
Hey Critical,

You need to get the beats raw, unmixed, and as individual tracks... i.e. kick, sn, hats, bass, etc etc etc each on its own track. Mixing is not putting a rap or vocal on top of a track that is already mixed. Mixing is about creating space for each individual track in the song to sit and be heard, "separation" If you rap and put your rap ontop of a mixed track you are basically doing karaoke. Your vocals will always either be too lud or too quiet. The only way you can get your vocals to "sit" in the mix and have the music envelop them is by giving your mix engineer or yourself if you are mixing the possibility to mix the music and vocals together. Mixing is about using eq to create space for individuals tracks to breath and not step on one another. You have to eq out cetain frequencies that may be stepping on other tracks. Like horns and vocals. Horns step all over a vocal because their main freq. is about 1k. that is exactly where vocal sit and poke through a mix. So if you have horns and vocals both competing for the same frequency one is always going to be too loud or too quiet. The solution is to carve out a bit of 1k for the vocal to sit with the horns and then it sounds as if the horns are blending with the vocals and sitting in the mix at a good level.

I agree 100% with the comment above about getting a mastered beat, once a sound has been compressed (mastered) it is done. Adding eq or compression again will only make the sound much lower quality. What you want is individual tracks with no eq applied, no compression applied, and no effect applied unless they make the sound. Like a delay on a sound might be the sound. But reverb on a sound does not make a sound and it needs to be added in the mix process. What if you want a tighter sound from a snare that has massive reverb on it? If it is there from the producer you have no options at mix. You have to leave it. You want clean tracks with very very limited effects or anything on them so you have as many options when you mix as possible. NEVER commit to a sound or a mix until all elements of the song have been recorded and you know what direction you want the song to take.

Again, I agree with comments above.... There are far too many producers willing to give you individual instruments on separate tracks to deal with a producer that wont give it to you that way. It is your song, you are buyin gor leasing the beat, this gives you full control to do what you want with the song. If you want to drop a snare track in the middle of verse 2 you should have that ability, a track track mixed or master beat gives yo no options what-so-ever. Most producers want to contral what their beat sounds like because of emotions. It is how they heard the beat when creating it so it is the only way they hear it in their head. But you as an artists might have another tilt on the beat. You sould be able to mix, mute, pan, drop sounds, or add what effect you want to highlight your rap. Its not the other way around. You are not rapping to highlight a beat. The beat is there to support your rap.

Producers, Im not dogging you at all. I have been in the studio business for 20+ years and this is just fact. Its what the industry does, and how things work. You have to let your beat go, let artists put their own twist on them, and watch them grow. Collaberation is a great thing and it really can make a beat transform into a hit!

Just my 2 cents....

www.TheMixStudio.com
Peace,
Jai
"love the MUSIC in Yourself, Not Yourself in the MUSIC!"
www.HipHopBusinessAdvisor.com
www.IamMusicNetwork.com

knowledge and respect
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
actualy, i have a masterchain when making a track and mostly if i put a beat out its mastered...that just makes sense to me but if it gets send out for an mc/engi then it really depends if the final stage is in good hands.. If so then give the dude the dryest mix, no boosting just clean and dull :)
 

dacalion

Hands Of FIRE!
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 259
dull, as in you intentionally make it dull, or dull as in flat as possible? My guess would be as flat as possible but then again, I know some guys that actually trim a little shine off of things like cymbols and hihats on purpose.
 

Sucio

Old and dirty...
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 304
Getting the instrumental mastered prior to recording in my opinion is counter-productive...because with the vocals, you gotta re-mix it.

I understand a good mix in terms of levels so the artist can really vibe to the beat and have an idea of how it may sound...

I don't see the point in mastering beats without an artist unless it's being used as an instrumental, only.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
Dac, i meant dull in how you may perceive the "sound" of sample you're hearing(as an example). You hear something appealing, you cut it then eq the shit out of it till it sounds good to you. Most people who make beats do this not to justify the sample but to compensate for the proper speakers/setup or roomtreatment. In case of sampling its been beaten and told to death that whatever you sample is mastered already. Basicaly, this goes for most things/signals you use when making a track so when you make a nice balance/mix, then the dude who masters has all the room to give it the finishing beef.
 

dacalion

Hands Of FIRE!
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 259
I understand...I think some confusion comes in when we talk about mixing with the proper gear. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the correct gear/atmosphere is required BUT I also understand their perspective when I consider things like...Most people are exposed to music all of their lives and we grow accustomed to hearing mastered tracks (until we get in a studio). That in mind, it's very easy for me to understand why we do what we do. I mean what do you do when your hihats dont match those in your mastered sample, you don't scrap the project, you get something close and then you eq the shit out of it and layer it on top of the sample...lol. Another thing I've come to realize is that most of us do not play back our music on state of the art gear so the difference between the two is basically unknown. As long as it sounds good on whatever we're listening to it on takes presidence over what it could sound like with the right gear. So, No, you can't fix what you can't hear but you don't throw your hands up in the air and stop producing either...you just gotta grow. =)
 

drex

superpimp trillionaire
Battle Points: 11
I want my mixes muddy. Just short of painful. i want to leave big woofers exhausted and trunk locks loose.
I need that guitar solo screaming and that drop hittin like an incredible hulk dropkick,yet almost inaudible.
I want to break every rule ever, In the quest for the most unruly neckbreaking hiphop ever heard.
So how do I get a classically trained engineer to understand tha and apply his knowledge to my quest?
How do I send him my tracks and rest assured tha he wont send back some clean top forty ish ready for the next american idol to "rap" on...
Am I better off doing it myself or leaning on the more experienced ears of a professional?

And also CriticalStringz, I've never worked with a beatmaker that I didnt have a good relationship with. We either started off cool or ended up cool, it seems like you just wanna do business and keep it steppin, thats ok I guess, but in my experience havin a good understanding of one another makes things much easier... Btw if you are still looking for tracks, You hit the motherlode
 

dacalion

Hands Of FIRE!
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 259
My thoughts...the sound that you're describing gives me the impression that you want to do something different and unique. The problem I see with it is - it's something that YOU desire, whereas the typical strategy is to create something that the rest of the world desires...I mean, if everybody is digging it, you will be considered that great producer that changed all the rules. Wanting to break the rules is great! It's thinking out the box. The key to it will be building your fan base first as opposed to you investing in to something that only YOU have a thirst for. Convincing others that your muddy mixes is doper, hotter, cooler than the industry standard 'clean' mix will be a challenge to say the least.

So I can understand you wanting to do something totally different but I think you should try doing it somewhere else other than attempting to make a muddy mix hot. I really don't think that would fly for a million reasons. Hank Shocklee had a similar vision but his thing was sounds, his mixes were great!

 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
Doom is pure grit, the difference is Doom finishes the tracks with his flows...at least i dont care about his quality of tracks. The tracks that are mixed somewhat better lack the character of tracks like dead bent.

There's a lot of wack mc's who get by because the tracks make up 80% of song's delivery(10% wack mc and 10% bogus clip lol).

As for expectations, ill beat it to death till people get it. The sound you want to hear from your speakers are as good as your nearfields. If getting delivery for tracks means loads of boosting then in most cases you trying to make up for shitty speakers. Here's were you are right, if you're on shitty speakers and it sounds dull, than thats the way it is. What you need is reference, take your best tracks to a good studio and listen what it sounds like (if possible, make a track there and listen to it on your home setup). I have 3 tracks like that which lets me get aquinted to new setups quickly, in the studio i reference things like new near fields with the same disc (D'Angelo).

Every producer needs this, without reference and no top notch studio you'd never have a clue of what you're doing.
 
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