Problem in Vocals.........

[Authority]

I just made like 3 songs yesterday in my home studio and the beat sounds good and everything but when the VOCALS come they seem like they are lifeless in the mix.......So when you listen you are expecting a clean crisp sound like the beat but you hear a dull dry effect on the vocals........I mixed the song and i think i cud do better on the mixing but other than that I dont Know why the vocals sound like this.......I compressed the vocals in the Protools le 6.81 compresser in the audiosuite at Threshold>Far Right , Ratio>2:1 , Attack>Far right and gain -2.8 Can any see my problem......Is the compressor killing the vocals or am i mixing poorly? I wud appreciate your help please thankz

 

[Melodix]

Yea your compression settings are all screwed up.....use the plug in not the audio suite....audio suite is not a real time setting.....a suggesgtion is to try to use a 3:1 setting and set the attack early and the release mid way.....adjust the threshold so that u have about a 3 db reduction....than u can later increase the gain around + 3 db to make up for the reduction.....this is good for tracking......u dont want to compress alot when recording vocals.....also careful with compression cuz if u r compressing to much then the same thing is gonna keep happening.....songs are gonna sound life less. U may also want to read what compression does if u dont know....it will help u understand why if used to much it makes your sound sound lifeless.......If u Squash to much Dynamics out of your track its gonna sound Lifeless.


"I am gonna change the game soon....watch me yall. Yall dont know what im bringing...im gonna re invent this genre of music"

 

[5th Sequence]

What's your recording setup? What microphone, preamp if any, and cables are you using? For vocals, try compression settings with a threshold of -12, a ratio of 6:1, adjusting the attack and release to what sounds most natural. Then up the gain by a bit and you should have some more leveled vocals.

I've had the same problems before. The only way i've ever been able to get around it is by layering and layering vocals. You can add more than one take to a layer, but also copy and paste a few layers to get it thicker. Move one of them like 20ms behind the other to get a thicker effect as well. Mess with EQ!! look up proper vocal EQ settings and add that.

Also try cutting frequencies in your actual beat so that the vocal can sit in those frequencies you cut. I dont remember any frequencies off the top of my head but basically anything you add to the vocal you could subtract from your beat and you should carve a decent groove in there for the vocals.

But yeah get some layering going on. Also have all of your effects and stuff on your layered vocals and you could send them all through an aux bus and have the buss have heavy compression settings and mix that in as well. Once you get into layering and whatnot you'll find out that you can easily over do it. Just do it extensively a few times, then go back and do it in moderation you should find a good balance with that.

Hope this helps,

Peace

 

[Melodix]

Yo no offense 5th sequence but u dont know wht your talking about....i dont know who gave u this advice...but should punch them.....i am a certified and professional sound ngineer, and in this business we say we have no rules and that anything goes but on the other side of things ther are things that u shoudent do and that is definatly copy pasting doubles.....there are numerouse ways to make a vocal sound thick and this is not one of them....u will start to experience fazeing....but ne way to the original person who posted this thread just take my advice this dude dont know what he is alking about when engineering

 

[Authority]

to melodix

I have the mbox2 and protools le 6.81.......Does this come with plugins that are "Realtime Compressors"? Didnt you say not to use the audio suite for compression?Yea but it also comes with Tracks Eq wud this be helpful or Not? But yea for a newbie to compression What settings Should i start off with.....Including Gain, Threshold, Ratio, Attack and Release? and Also after i Compress my vocals shouldnt i EQ? to bring back say high, mid and low frequencies or not? I wud appreciate your help man.....

o yea i havent layered my tracks before........I always only record one track and then im done......SO SHOULD I START LAYERING THEM?...........AND SHOULD I COMPRESS THE LAYERED TRACKS? IF SO WUD I SET THAT UP THE SAME WAY BUT WHEN MIXING JUST TURN IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN THE FIRST TRACK?.....Also

What should i set the GAIN TO??????or should i just leave it alone?

 

[Melodix]

Go to the mixer screen in pro tools.....above where there are little arrows is the insert section of the mixer....here is where u can insert plugins to individual tracks........here u can pull up the compressor.....now adjust your gain settings on the Mbox Hardware and then try the settings i posted earlier....dont copy and paste doubles...have the artist spit the vocal on top of the original on a seperat track...u can play the double lower....also hae him spit a third track of just the endings of the words or words which he would like to emphisize.....u can also do an ad lib track and pan the ad libs from left to right to fill up the empty spaces in the flow

 

[5th Sequence]

yes i've read a few things online but I only recommended what I've tried and has worked for me.

by the way, what the fuck is your problem? I understand if my information is incorrect, I obviously didnt know that otherwise I wouldnt have done it myself or even given the advice. Dont be on the no offense stuff an then go taken shots though.

Was all of my information terribly wrong? or was it just the copy pasting part. I admit actually, I dont do much copy pasting myself but I do setup the small delays, different EQ's and whatnot.

Authority, i'll let the pro answer you.

 

[GRAFIK]

dont pay any attention to him 5th, he is long gone!

 

[5th Sequence]

He was right in the sense about the phasing. But what was up with the attitude? I'm just tryna help someone out. An those techniques i mentioned I DO use and they have worked for me. Especially when I was just starting out with a lesser quality setup, getting vocals to sit in the mix is really difficult but those things worked for me.

Authority just try as much as you can on your own I guess.

 

[djswivel]

I'm also a certified Pro Tools op (the link to my official page is in my signature), and I work as an engineer....As far as copy and pasting doubles, yeah thats a big no no for obvious phasing reasons. As far as 5th offering his compression settings, thats probably also a big no no. Honestly, each vocalist has different mic habits and sings/raps a different way. There is no magical setting that works wonders on everyone. But to be honest, I would keep the ratio to a minimum. 2:1, 3:1 etc. Not much higher. The beauty of vocals is the dynamics in it, and if you crush the vocals you're killing the life out of it.

As far as Melodix, I don't think he was meaning to be rude, I think it just came off that way. Maybe you were sticking your chest out a little much Melodix, and your knowledge came off as cocky and arrogant...

Authority, Melodix is right, definately don't use the audiosuite plugins on to destructively compress the vocals. Use your inserts. Then you can bypass those plugins and A-B your two different sounds and see if its helping. Keep in mind when you compress, to turn up the output gain a few db's depeding on how much db's are being compressed.

 

[Authority]

You Guys still didnt tell me what plugin that comes with the Mbox 2 to use for compression and how wud i get it to work with my protools session? Would Tracks Eq work for compression? or which one will do the job?

 

[5th Sequence]

I actually just posted the default settings of one of the "vocal compression" settings in sonar. Is it really that bad? I have always used those as my base reference an then adjusted to my liking. I usually find that they do too much and have to tone it down quite a bit but I always figured I was ruining it by toning it down.

Thats fucked up now that i think about it. I actually had the right idea but thought i was wrong. So 2 to 3:1 sounds right, what about threshold?

Authority I can't really help you i'm not familiar in pro tools and my vocal compression settings were way off. Listen to what swivel said though, I just went back to my most recent mix and redid all of the compression. Wow, the clarity.

 

[ALLEYCAT]

I use the insert plugin "simply" labeled compressor and use the vocal expander preset, then adjust according to the artist