Political thread be smart or dont comment, Russia Georgia NWO.

The Mastermind

This Illuminati Be Illin'
ill o.g.
Interesting article by Paul Craig Roberts on the conflict, 'Will American Insouciance Destroy the World?' He claims that US troops have been fighting with the Georgians and that there have even been US casualties.

Strangely Roberts was a part of Reagan's administration but you'd never know it from his tone and attitude.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20507.htm

Here's another from the same site:

'Putin Walks into a Trap' By Mike Whitney

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20508.htm
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
iono, I'll have to read that later , but its def startihng to look not good at all.
We have the wrong guy at the helm during all this.IMO Russia doesnt give a crap what we say or do because they know what the rest of the world does, but Bush cant seem to fathom, and that is:
We have too many troops spread all over the world to be an effective force at all in this conflict.
We cant effectively man the 2 fronts we have going on now. So no matter WHAT the White House says, Putin and them are going to keep saying "Or What?"
That wont stop our Dumb ass from taking the remaining 500 or so troops left at home and insisting they defeat the enitre russian army on its own soil like Hitler did during D-Day and the resulting situation.
Some people cant deal with reality.
Dont get me wrong I feel for the Georgian people, I really do, any civilians on both sides, but I was watching their president on tv(a new york lawyer this guy is no less! lol) and he is using all the great cold war language that I trhought we had decided was BS, like"If we fall then democracy for the region will fall and then around the world they will fall".Red Threat eh? I dont know, Putins KGB and has a puppet in office for himself, maybe he is trying to reserect the glory days.
All I know is this is a bad, bad, situation, and I dont get a good feeling from it at all.
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
Interesting article by Paul Craig Roberts on the conflict, 'Will American Insouciance Destroy the World?' He claims that US troops have been fighting with the Georgians and that there have even been US casualties.

Strangely Roberts was a part of Reagan's administration but you'd never know it from his tone and attitude.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20507.htm

Here's another from the same site:

'Putin Walks into a Trap' By Mike Whitney

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20508.htm

That top article is very good and exactly what I suspected. The timing that all this started with the opening of the Olympics is no coincedence, additionally Bush and Putin were sitting right next to each other at the event and were shown talking heatedly as the ceremony began.

The second article is very good as well, I fear the neocons!
 

mono

the invisible visible
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 20
dont panic, nothing will happen, BECAUSE there is nuclear threat on both sides. if nuclear weapons hadnt been invented, ww3 would have allready happened. sad but true. russia is a sovereign totalitarian democracy, with still the same people pulling the strips as during communism. thats how it works, same shit in all the other eastern european countries. you just do not realize as long as there is no tension.

only thing thats funny is the bigotry of american/nato behaviour. when it was balkan/afghanistan/iraq world police was pretty fast with taking measures in the name of freedom and humanity. now that were facing a potent opponent it isnt up to much any more with the "free worlds" respectability.

but even thats wrong. theres gas and oil pipelines running through ossetia, so put two and two together
 

StressWon

www.stress1.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 68
I was thinking that the other day.
I was thinking along the lines of if they are really worried they cant beat obama, then the could just use the state of emergency card.
They always have electronic voting as a failsafe election winner though, but thats just not satanic and bloodthirsty enough for those fuckers.


Don't get it twisted. McCain and Obama will be working for those people either way. Whether they know it or not.
 

Beatz 101

itsOneO.com
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 179
I really dont know who to believe in this situation. The media is not to be trusted and has been painting Russia as the bad guys. U know the media just wants to brainwash u and has an evil agenda, especially Fox News. Georgia may feel like they got big nuts now cuz they troops in Iraq n' they fuckin' wit the US. So they bumrush South Ossetia, and if shit hits the fan they think the US will come at their defense and put in work on Russia. For all i know, this is all about controlling some oil, pointing some nukes at Russia, and strippin' whats left of Russia piece by piece cuz they still threat.

But at the same time Russia has a history of bullying and being on some brolic shit. They just might wanna take it back to the good 'ol days, and they know the US's hands are tied with Iraq/Afghanistan. So they gonna take whats "owed" to them.



I just hope Bush doesnt do nothing stupid like send troops to Georgia to fight Russians off. Othawise we all gonna be pickin' up guns. Draft time.





101
 

TheDragon

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Figures this shit was going to happen. Once Putin started to have the Russian media to only highlight the good and not the bad of Russia, something like this isn't too far behind. I do have that feeling that we're all fucked. We might as well come together as a forum and build Voltron or something.

I do agree with LDB about the government taking care of business at home first, then the world. Isn't that what America was first doing? And if they bring the fight to our front doors, we will be fucked. All this talk of violence never solves anything, and here we go using it as the ultimate problem solver.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
a few additional points

1. polish defense shield, provided by the US.
2. Euro/Nato control over ossatia/georgia

Paul Craig Roberts <- im sorry, kind of a dumb fuck if you ask me because Reagan was the birth of the whole new NWO concept. The guy had fuck all to do with politics, in the same way bush jr. is supposed to be suitable for presidency. The people selling the war technology are the same people running your politics while your remain in a subtle propaganda.

Trust me, Russia is not happy with them rocket shields...sitting there stuck between china, europe and the US(read china).
 

The Mastermind

This Illuminati Be Illin'
ill o.g.
Paul Craig Roberts <- im sorry, kind of a dumb fuck if you ask me because Reagan was the birth of the whole new NWO concept. The guy had fuck all to do with politics, in the same way bush jr. is supposed to be suitable for presidency.

Sure, Roberts is in all kinds of denial about the Reagan days, but he was an insider and it's interesting and unusual to hear an insider talk this way.

Nothing to do with politics? Maybe I misunderstand what you mean but the guy was Assistant Secretary to the Treasury.

This whole secene is really bad guys versus bad guys, squabbling over who is gonna have their hand up the puppet's arse. Sure Georgia might have started the shooting but the whole ruthless air war, blow everyone up to gain / maintain power has got to be stopped. I'd call it priority number onw for the people of the planet, who, let's face it, are all in this together against the Bushes and Putins on the world.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
^^^ its not about georgia, its about the crappy rocketshields which oppose a threat...were back in the cold war in case you hadnt noticed..whats different is the industrial succes behind it as the rocketshields had already been aquired, providing this scenerario...we .... dont....need....a rocketshield, europe doesnt need a rocket shield but due to the iron triangle and dumb ass euro parlements we do buy them, even if the whole europe is against it and this is the result.

With nothing to do with politics i mean that these people have knowledge indeed being an insider but they are not relevant, these are not the people who make the decisions to provoke but they merely execute what is consulted to them by the staff. Behind the staff is the defense intellect and the industry, behind them is you and tax money because they need your money for defense budgets.

Reagan, Bush...theyre muppets, china, UK royals, Dutch royals, Swiss royals is just prime evil aristocracy who have formed the NWO for ages until china bashed in their nwo perspective...russia is just a big mess, not capable of doing something constructive as its far to corrupt to oppose a deceptive threat but they are of course capable of doing much harm. Go check out Bilderberg, all them cats in the same building who know all the crap of whats going on as we keep on being indoctrinated by the info, news we obtain, and still we know jack shit just according to plan.
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
Interesting story none of us are surprised by..


http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1008/p09s02-coop.html










I survived the Georgian war. Here's what I saw.
I blame Georgia's leaders.
By Lira Tskhovrebova
from the October 8, 2008 edition

E-mail Print Letter to the Editor Republish del.icio.us digg

Tskhinvali, South Ossetia - In a speech before the United Nations last month, Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili implored world leaders to set up an international investigation to find out the truth about the war in South Ossetia.

I couldn't agree more. But I think the results of an honest investigation would reveal a very different "truth" than what President Saakashvili claims.

I know this because I was in Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, on Aug. 7 when Georgian troops marched into the city and killed my friends and neighbors. I huddled with my family in terror for three nights while Saakashvili's tanks and rockets destroyed hundreds of our homes, desecrated cemeteries, gutted schools and hospitals.

I also have good reason not to trust what Saakashvili says. For three days before the attack I had been getting calls from many Georgian friends warning me to get out. They said Saakashvili was planning an attack. Most of the Georgians living in South Ossetia left because they knew what was coming.

On the night of Aug. 7, Saakashvili went on television and assured the frightened civilian population of South Ossetia that he would not attack us. This was long after the time Saakashvili now claims Russians had begun "invading" Georgia.

Ossetians went to bed relieved and thankful for a peaceful night.

Less than two hours later, according to credible international accounts, his artillery, bombers, and three brigades of ground troops unleashed what I can only describe as a fierce hell on our city. In the moment, we knew only our fear as we hid. Afterward I spoke with hundreds of Ossetians to find out what was done to us.

My friend's elderly father tried to douse the flames set by Georgian fire on the home he had built with his hands. His leg was severed by shrapnel from Georgian weapons. He bled to death while his disabled wife crawled from their burning home.

Ossetians saw Georgian tanks firing into basements where women and children hid for safety They saw fleeing families shot down by Georgian snipers. We learned that the Georgian military had used Grad rocket systems and cluster bombs against Tskhinvali.

Yes, I would very much like to see an international commission investigate the truth of what happened.

When I came out from hiding, thanking God that the Russians had saved our lives, I was dismayed by the reaction of the international media to what had happened. There was nothing about Ossetian deaths and the unprovoked horrors inflicted by Saakashvili's military. It made my heart sick.

The truth has been crushed by Georgia's powerful public relations machine as mercilessly as Georgian tanks rolled over the defenseless civilians of Tskhinvali.

I know that Americans are a generous and fair people. But Americans haven't been told the truth about what happened to us. Americans don't understand that Ossetians are an independent, Christian Orthodox people with a deep history in our land. The world talks only about Georgian freedom. What of freedom for my people? Does our suffering, do our voices, mean nothing?

I don't blame the Georgian people for what happened to us. The vast number of Ossetians and Georgians want to live in peace. I blame Georgia's leaders.

Saakashvili has persuaded the world that he is a "beacon" of democracy and openness. But he won't even tell his own people the truth. My Georgian friends weren't allowed to see any Russian news sites during the conflict because all of those sites were blocked by Saakashvili's government.

I know we are a small people, and I make no claim to understanding the experts in geopolitics with their theories and pronouncements about the great powers. But I have fought for women's rights in Ossetia for 12 years and I believe in the truth.

In a recent article, Saakashvili cynically dismissed Ossetian suffering and deaths because, he said, Russia had "lied" about how many of my people were killed by the Georgian military.

It breaks my heart to even engage in this discussion. No one – including Saakashvili – knows how many Ossetians were killed by his Army. I have friends who buried loved ones in their backyards because there were no alternatives. Many people are still missing.

Does Saakashvili believe his vicious attack on a civilian city was justified if he only killed a few hundred rather than a few thousand? Do Americans realize that a military trained and equipped by the US government attacked a civilian population as they slept in their beds? Can they justify sending another billion dollars to Georgia and nothing for those Georgia attacked?

I have made an urgent appeal to the world for humanitarian relief for our people at the website helpossetianow.org. I beg the United States and the world to find out the truth. Please hear our voices.

• Lira Tskhovrebova is the founder of the Association of South Ossetian Women for Democracy and Human Rights and has worked for more than a decade to improve relations between people of Georgian and Ossetian descent in the Caucasus.
 

7thangel

7th Angel of Armageddon
ill o.g.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/11/10/was_georgia_a_neo-con_conspira/
Was Georgia a Neo-Con Conspiracy? A Lesson for Obama

By Tom Hayden - November 10, 2008, 12:33PM

New revelations about Georgia's August war with Russia should send a warning to president-elect Barack Obama about how a commander-in-chief can be manipulated into war.

It now appears that the same neo-conservatives who manipulated the US into the Iraq war on false evidence were directly involved in backing Georgia's ill-fated operation on August 7-8, which eyewitness military observers have described as indiscriminate attacks by Georgia on Russian and civilian positions. The observers reports, first made in August and then October to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, were disclosed in the New York Times three days after the presidential election. [NYT, Nov. 7]

The new evidence increases the likelihood that the August 7-8 clash between Georgia and Russia was an "October Surprise" that would highlight John McCain's greater foreign policy experience at the height of the presidential election.

The Georgia fighting occurred immediately before the Democratic convention in Denver. McCain, the leading public advocate for Georgia, immediately declared "we are all Georgians now" and promised "to blast Russia." Obama, on vacation in Hawaii, at first called for greater diplomacy, but quickly fell in line with a bipartisan consensus of national security advisers and the mainstream media. Obama's national security adviser, Susan Rice, openly applauded the White House for its rapid response, including support for NATO's inclusion of Georgia and the Ukraine and a one billion dollar emergency appropriation.

The newly-released evidence for the "October Surprise" now deserves deeper reflection by Obama and his advisers, and greater investigation by the mainstream media.

The trail of evidence stats with Randy Scheunemann, McCain's top foreign policy adviser and former director of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which secured some $90 million in federal funds to lobby for the fabricated agenda of Iraqi exiles like Ahmed Chalabi leading to the Iraq invasion.

Scheunemann became a registered foreign agent for Mikheil Saakashvili's Georgian government when it came to power in 2004, making $800,000 in fees for his lobbying firm, Orion Strategies, until the relationship on May 15 was formally terminated under McCain's 2008 campaign rules.

In those years, McCain traveled to Georgia more than once, nominated his "close friend" Saakashvili for a Nobel Prize in 2005, engineered support for Georgia through the Republican Democracy Institute, and supported the US training of combat forces there. With Schuenemann as his adviser, Saakashvili had campaigned on a platform of taking back South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Schuenemann was also his lobbyist when Saakashvili sent troops to retake two other separatist enclaves, Ajaria in 2004, and upper Kodori Gorge in Abkhazia in 2006, both over Russian objections. Schuenemann and McCain visited Georgia again in 2006.

Scheunemann invented the neo-conservative battle cry of "rolling back rogue states", used by McCain in a 1999 speech, an echo of the Cold War strategy of rolling back the Soviet Union, and was a paid lobbyist for Latvia, Macedonia, Romania, and the so-called Caspian Alliance, a consortium including British Petroleum, Chevron and Conoco building a pipeline through Georgia to bypass the former Soviet Union.

Scheunemann attacked Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in 2006 for "appeasement" of Russia over Georgia, suggesting the same tensions between the neo-conservatives, McCain, and Cheney's office versus the State Department that undermined rational assessments in the runup to Iraq. [Financial Times, Oct. 21, 2006]

Now that Georgia's August 7 operation appears to have been pre-planned and deliberate, is it possible to believe that Scheunemann was unaware of a scenario that closely matched the August 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident? Before this becomes yesterday's news, someone should ask what did he know and when did he know it? Did the US advisers to the Georgian military know and not report the facts? In the unlikely event that they were uninformed and uninvolved, the McCain team was quick to exploit the moment to attack Obama for inexperienced wobbling.

There followed a complete acquiescence by the Democrats, led by Obama's national security advisers, whose Cold War conditioning apparently trumped their own experience of being manipulated into the Iraq war. Or was a political decision made that Obama could not afford to appear weaker than McCain on Russia? A reignited Cold War would have been fused with the War on Terrorism in one dominant paradigm.

Now that they are in opposition, there is little doubt that the neo-conservatives will continue their strategy of confrontation on the Russian border. These are people who deliberately exaggerated the Soviet military threat in the Reagan years, developed the Project for the New American Century [where Scheunemann was a director], fabricated evidence about Saddam's arsenal, and seemingly have never stopped. They could destroy an Obama presidency by demanding expenditures for multiple wars which America cannot win and cannot afford, or alternatively accusing him of weakening America in the world.

The important cautionary lesson for Obama is that his initial instincts favoring diplomacy were correct while his national security advisers failed him. There is a parallel with the early days of the John Kennedy presidency, when the national security establishment presented a plan for invading Cuba to a young president eager to prove his national security mettle. If Kennedy rejected the Bay of Pigs invasion, he would have been accused of weakness and treason. When the invasion turned into a debacle - the Cubans had detailed information about the training and landing sites - Kennedy was quoted later as wishing he could tear the CIA into a thousand pieces. Indeed, if the national security advisers had prevailed against the secret diplomacy of the Kennedy brothers, there might have been nuclear war over Cuba. John Kennedy's deep questioning of the Cold War began with those disastrous experiences.

Vice president Joe Biden famously warned that Barack Obama would be tested over national security policy in the first months of his tenure. That the testing may come from within the national security establishment, not only from foreign sources, should give Obama pause as he contemplates the time ahead.
 
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