you didnt hurt anyone personally....but the system you represent does. Exporting jobs to other countries for slave labor weakening the economic structure in your own country that made you (sort of speak) not only hurts...its treason in my book.
Please sign my petition
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thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
"Exporting jobs to other countries for slave labor weakening the economic structure in your own country "
Well I don't support those things, in fact the companies we support most at work keep jobs in America.
"see your bias to the capitalistic system (freedom at the expense of others) because you benifited from it"
Why have you not? Why not go make your millions? Starting a business is hard work that's why and it's much easier to just get your paycheck every two weeks. I also do not like socialism or communism. Talk about governments where you don't have freedom. Have you traveled outside the US? Have you seen real poverty in 3rd world countries first hand? I have, it made me really appreciate what I have in the US. No election has ever swung from popular vote because of electorial college EVER. Popular vote has for the most part been who gets elected. But the electorial college is one more safety net in our government to keep a tyrant from coming to power. And its a very good well thought out one at that. Some other facts...%90 of millionaires in this country are self made first generation. So born in to lower or middle class and work their way up....of the millionaires in this country %90 of them did so by starting a business. Small business creates over two million jobs a year in this country. If Ford, GM, Exon and all the other HUGE companies go under and lay of all of their workers unemployment goes up by %1 most people in America work for companies that are 5 employees or less. This is why I hate the bale out if your business plan sucks, the business should die or you should fix it. Not the government.
Another example lets use my favorite program Reason. If you buy Reason for $400, Propellerheads probably make after expenses I would guess $50-$75. Are you saying they are wrong to make money on their product? For $400 you get a great software and that get the money to keep improving it and feed their families. So its a win win, a fair transaction. Do you really have a problem with people making a profit?
Well I don't support those things, in fact the companies we support most at work keep jobs in America.
"see your bias to the capitalistic system (freedom at the expense of others) because you benifited from it"
Why have you not? Why not go make your millions? Starting a business is hard work that's why and it's much easier to just get your paycheck every two weeks. I also do not like socialism or communism. Talk about governments where you don't have freedom. Have you traveled outside the US? Have you seen real poverty in 3rd world countries first hand? I have, it made me really appreciate what I have in the US. No election has ever swung from popular vote because of electorial college EVER. Popular vote has for the most part been who gets elected. But the electorial college is one more safety net in our government to keep a tyrant from coming to power. And its a very good well thought out one at that. Some other facts...%90 of millionaires in this country are self made first generation. So born in to lower or middle class and work their way up....of the millionaires in this country %90 of them did so by starting a business. Small business creates over two million jobs a year in this country. If Ford, GM, Exon and all the other HUGE companies go under and lay of all of their workers unemployment goes up by %1 most people in America work for companies that are 5 employees or less. This is why I hate the bale out if your business plan sucks, the business should die or you should fix it. Not the government.
Another example lets use my favorite program Reason. If you buy Reason for $400, Propellerheads probably make after expenses I would guess $50-$75. Are you saying they are wrong to make money on their product? For $400 you get a great software and that get the money to keep improving it and feed their families. So its a win win, a fair transaction. Do you really have a problem with people making a profit?
there's is nothing wrong with making a profit...just be ethical at doing what you do. aahhh! but its hard to be ethical in a capitalistic society because you have to compete, so you gotta cut the next mans throat and say that your product is better....which in turn hurts another person that beleives in the exact same system...so just imagine the uncertainty and anxiety the working man feels when he or she has base their families future on the oppressors uncertainty and anxiety.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
"To find truth in shit you gotta challenge your own beliefs."
ha ha, I was going to say the same to you.
I actually used to feel the same way you did on this subject but I was misguided at best.
"but its hard to be ethical in a capitalistic society because you have to compete, so you gotta cut the next mans throat and say that your product is better....which in turn hurts another person that beleives in the exact same system."
No just be better, work harder and take it to the next level. The last two companies I have worked for have succeed by being very ethical, and doing what they do better than anyone else. in fact you will find that companies that are unethical usually don't make it. I have never and will never "cut the next mans throat" Just to get ahead, life is too short for that.
ha ha, I was going to say the same to you.
I actually used to feel the same way you did on this subject but I was misguided at best.
"but its hard to be ethical in a capitalistic society because you have to compete, so you gotta cut the next mans throat and say that your product is better....which in turn hurts another person that beleives in the exact same system."
No just be better, work harder and take it to the next level. The last two companies I have worked for have succeed by being very ethical, and doing what they do better than anyone else. in fact you will find that companies that are unethical usually don't make it. I have never and will never "cut the next mans throat" Just to get ahead, life is too short for that.
You will not "purposely" cut another mans throat to get ahead sounds better. And it still doesn't take away from the fact that capitalism is a cutthroat competitive system that thrives on profit making and when you thrive on profitmaking...you dont put out a product that sustains itself you create a service department because defects are created within the company's capitalistic system as a profit engine also.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
"you dont put out a product that sustains itself you create a service department because defects are created within the company's capitalistic system as a profit engine also."
I am probably going to bow of this discussion because it is going nowhere and that is so illogical. Products are not perfect because they are created by humans. Would you rather deal with a company that does not have a service dept? This just makes no sense.
"you dont put out a product that sustains itself"
What does that even mean?
And yes business and innovation happens when there is profit. None of the cool inventions you enjoy would have happened with out profit period. You can make a profit and not hurt someone else. You do not HAVE to run a cutthroat business. SW is a great example of this, they compete and do no harm to anyone. So does google, so many other businesses.
I am probably going to bow of this discussion because it is going nowhere and that is so illogical. Products are not perfect because they are created by humans. Would you rather deal with a company that does not have a service dept? This just makes no sense.
"you dont put out a product that sustains itself"
What does that even mean?
And yes business and innovation happens when there is profit. None of the cool inventions you enjoy would have happened with out profit period. You can make a profit and not hurt someone else. You do not HAVE to run a cutthroat business. SW is a great example of this, they compete and do no harm to anyone. So does google, so many other businesses.
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
ya man its all good, I hope no one really got upset. interesting discussion for sure! 
Ahhhh, another peacefully unsettled debate at illmuzik. What happened to this place? Issues like this NEVER ended without atleast one threat to kill someones family member. There wasn't even the popular "meet me at Joe's at 9pm and i'll kick your arse" threat!?!?!?!
Here's my version of how this should have ended...
SKID - Oh STFU Dream, you capitalistic prick, i'll smack the ish out of you with that BS you stupid mofo...dont you see my avatar...and read my signature.
Dream - FU Skid, you country MF's don't know ish about the real world. I'll take this Sweetwater mag and shove it so far up your arse that your breath would smell like ink! F all you country MF's including you dac...
note Drama is doing all that he can to stay out of this but the "you country MF's don't know ish about the real world" comment is eating him alive.)
dac - hey I was just trying to add a little humor
Relic - OK guys, you betta chillout or else
STRESS - F all y'all, sign my petition *THREAD CLOSED*
note Fade has been silently watching the whole time in the shadows )
This is the ill I know. But seriously, this was a good topic and I see both sides, I just think it's a no-win deal.
Peace Kings,
dac
Here's my version of how this should have ended...
SKID - Oh STFU Dream, you capitalistic prick, i'll smack the ish out of you with that BS you stupid mofo...dont you see my avatar...and read my signature.
Dream - FU Skid, you country MF's don't know ish about the real world. I'll take this Sweetwater mag and shove it so far up your arse that your breath would smell like ink! F all you country MF's including you dac...
note
Drama is doing all that he can to stay out of this but the "you country MF's don't know ish about the real world" comment is eating him alive.)dac - hey I was just trying to add a little humor
Relic - OK guys, you betta chillout or else
STRESS - F all y'all, sign my petition *THREAD CLOSED*
note
Fade has been silently watching the whole time in the shadows )This is the ill I know. But seriously, this was a good topic and I see both sides, I just think it's a no-win deal.
Peace Kings,
dac