Official Kanye West thread

[Ash Holmz]

but life is two sided ... u cant just be a completely righteous person... anyone that thinks they are is playin themselves.. i like kanye cuz he dont try to be concsiousis .. or try to be thug.. he does what he feels... and i completely relate.... u cant tell people not to sell drugs .. unless you give them something better to do... to me kanyes message is a very simple "do u" which is the hot shit to me..

 

[N.U.G.]

^^^^^^

"people want the feeling of A Tribe Called Quest,
but all we got left is that guy called West..."

I have never said or ever heard Kanye West say that he is making strictly "positive" music

He's not trying to be a role model, he's just being real to himself and making excellent music. What Kanye does do though is offer something other than your typical "I'm a gangsta, I sell drugs, I'm rich" steez that the majority of mainstream rappers have...

Kanye just does Kanye and part of that is making an incredible song like "Jesus Walks". BUT don't make that track out to be more than what it is though - a valid social comment that, now more then ever, most people are lost and in pain and need Jesus/salvation. what's not dope about that?

To the hustlas, killers, murderers, drug dealers even the strippers
To the victims of Welfare for we living in hell here hell yeah
Now hear ye hear ye want to see Thee more clearly
I know he hear me when my feet get weary
Cuz we're the almost nearly extinct
We rappers are role models we rap we don't think
I ain't here to argue about his facial features
Or here to convert atheists into believers
I'm just trying to say the way school need teachers
The way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way yall need Jesus
So here go my single dog radio needs this
They say you can rap about anything except for Jesus
That means guns, sex, lies, video tapes
But if I talk about God my record won't get played Huh?
Well let this take away from my spins
Which will probably take away from my ends
Then I hope this take away from my sins
And bring the day that I'm dreaming about
Next time I'm in the club everybody screaming out...

Jesus Walks!"


It's all good not to like dude as a person or to not even like his music and I know you're not just a hater like some cats. I think you may be looking at Kanye's music a bit to critically though in terms of it being viewed as something that is supposed to just have postive messages and lead people to a better life. That isn't what Kanye's about or has ever been about, so if he made an album like that it wouldn't be real to himself. I'd recommend just trying to appreciate Kanye's music for what it is - an honest and personal album based on his own personal experiences and opinions whether they are right or wrong...

 

[tricky spinz]

to me kanyes message is a very simple "do u" which is the hot shit to me..

man, i tried that whole "do you" thing once. all i ended up with was a backache and a rash. so my advice to everyone, DO NOT TRY TO DO YOURSELF. IT WONT WORK.

 

[Cold Truth]

i never said kanye said he was trying to be a so called positive artist....

i was commenteing on what everyone else is saying about him. you said he was positive. you brought that into play.

and holmz, i know ful lwell tha tyuo can not be a completely righteous person- fi y uocould my beliefs would be pointless. i'm every bit as guilty as anyone else, him included- i dont see him as being any more of a sinner. whati am saying is that he sends distinctively different messages to me.

i do know that i analyze things more than the average person and so others wont read in to the things that i do. i am actually in agreement with everything you said.... but i think both sides of that coin are true.... because while telling people not to sell drugs while not giving hem a viable alternative isnt exactly the most productive, neither is advocating it. its saying "hey, if you cant beat em, join em"

look at the irony here: he advocates selling drugs to get by in the same album he uses to mock the value and importance of an education....... which is vital for any minority in this country....that makes ZERO sense. more drug dealers will wind up in jail or dead than they will parlaying that into some other form of legitimate success. more minorities will make something of themselves by getting an education than by being an athlete or rap star or actor or any other big-money entertainment career. woman who arent drop dead beautiful and overwieght deserve the same love as those who are.....

and to say he isnt trying to be a role model is a bit of a stretch... when you do jesus walks and all falls down and songs like that, you are sending a message, are you not? whethere you like it or not he is teaching people through that message and people are influenced by that. you really can not deny that... the man has tremendous influence.

as far as not makng Jesus walks more important than it is.... well..... when you are a Christin and Jesus ISNT a myth to you, it IS important.

and as far as apreciating his music for what it is....

i like certain things, i know the guy is a great talent. i liked the blueprint beats. i liked the scarface/jay z joint... i liked the get by's and things like that...

i just dislike his rapping style and sound.

and, at any rate, it is up to the listener to decide what to gleem from his album. otherpeople will find hope in Jesus walks; some girl will find encouragement in all falls down... some woman will here the workout plan and decide to get herself in better shape.

 

[RigorMortis]

he is a wack mc for one thing
and concerning his producing, to much people on his dick or thinking of their own future careers hahaha.. he aint that special or whatever.

 

[Cold Truth]

you hit the nail on the head on the production- a lot of dudes will eat off him.....

 

[N.U.G.]

i never said kanye said he was trying to be a so called positive artist....

i was commenteing on what everyone else is saying about him. you said he was positive. you brought that into play.

and holmz, i know ful lwell tha tyuo can not be a completely righteous person- fi y uocould my beliefs would be pointless. i'm every bit as guilty as anyone else, him included- i dont see him as being any more of a sinner. whati am saying is that he sends distinctively different messages to me.

i do know that i analyze things more than the average person and so others wont read in to the things that i do. i am actually in agreement with everything you said.... but i think both sides of that coin are true.... because while telling people not to sell drugs while not giving hem a viable alternative isnt exactly the most productive, neither is advocating it. its saying "hey, if you cant beat em, join em"

look at the irony here: he advocates selling drugs to get by in the same album he uses to mock the value and importance of an education....... which is vital for any minority in this country....that makes ZERO sense. more drug dealers will wind up in jail or dead than they will parlaying that into some other form of legitimate success. more minorities will make something of themselves by getting an education than by being an athlete or rap star or actor or any other big-money entertainment career. woman who arent drop dead beautiful and overwieght deserve the same love as those who are.....

and to say he isnt trying to be a role model is a bit of a stretch... when you do jesus walks and all falls down and songs like that, you are sending a message, are you not? whethere you like it or not he is teaching people through that message and people are influenced by that. you really can not deny that... the man has tremendous influence.

as far as not makng Jesus walks more important than it is.... well..... when you are a Christin and Jesus ISNT a myth to you, it IS important.

and as far as apreciating his music for what it is....

i like certain things, i know the guy is a great talent. i liked the blueprint beats. i liked the scarface/jay z joint... i liked the get by's and things like that...

i just dislike his rapping style and sound.

and, at any rate, it is up to the listener to decide what to gleem from his album. otherpeople will find hope in Jesus walks; some girl will find encouragement in all falls down... some woman will here the workout plan and decide to get herself in better shape.

good post Cold Truth

first of all though, I'm not the one the bought positivity in Kanye's music into this thread. you were talking about the conflicting message betwen the postive and negative messages in Kanyes music in your earlier post. I personally haven't heard anyone say Kanye's music is "positive" (altough there are some postive messages in some of his music). I have heard, and agree that, Kanye's music is "real" though...

umm, when has Kanye West advocated selling drugs? If you're talking about the;
"all my peoples that's drug dealing just to get by, stack your money till it gets sky high, we wasn't suppossed to make it past 25, jokes on you we're still alive..." that's not advocating selling drugs, it's celebrating defying the odds and surviving. He's not glorifying drug dealing, he's talking about people doing it just to get by - to buy groceries and pay the rent etc. don't get it twisted.

as fas as the education thing. Again Kanye is being real to himself and his experiences. All that College could offer him was a piece of paper and the possibility of a shitty job after that. Kanye backed himself and his talent and went against what people where telling him to do (stay in school) and made himself into a success. If Kanye had stayed in school he could very well have been the dude sitting next to you at work who never followed his dreams and never will, and is now trying to make the most of the 9 to 5 life... Kanye's story is a message of overcoming the odds and achieving success and the message in that is indeed positive and is something that anyone from any race or religion can gain inspiration from.

It is what it is - some people will be influenced by Kanye's music and fortunately enough some of it does have good messeges. How do you think that compares to someone who's influenced by say "The Clipse - Grinding" that is all about glorifying drug dealing and one of the biggest hits in recent years or a song like "J Kwon - Tipsy" which in ways advocates teen drinking? Either way whether someone is listening to Kanye West, The Clipse or anyone else for that matter, and they are letting the music they listen to be their main influence - they are in trouble to begin with. It's not up to commercial rap artists to tell people what to do. And in times like this, where people are more influenced by MTV than their parents/their own judgement/books/leaders etc., you can really see how important and relevant a song like "Jesus Walks" is...

holla

 

[Cold Truth]

*my bad- that wasnt yuo, it was inspectah wu. "what you cant argue is that he puts out a positive message"

anyhow, this does it for my kanye posting. i percieve these elements different than most of yuo and i can respect that opinion, but im done discussing it.

 

[N.U.G.]

*my bad- that wasnt yuo, it was inspectah wu. "what you cant argue is that he puts out a positive message"

anyhow, this does it for my kanye posting. i percieve these elements different than most of yuo and i can respect that opinion, but im done discussing it.

I respect that

 

[pancakebunnny]

jesus... you people are insane... NO FUCKING WONDER THE FOOL IS SO DAMN EGOTISTOCAL.... HE HAS HIS OWN ILLMUZIK.COM FORUM THREAD... keep on feeding the beast...

please people... only so many grown folks can swing from his nuts at once.

 

[gram green]

jesus likes his ho's in shape

i aint ridin dudes nutz yo... i only posted on him because i thought it was weird to see so many people hating on him.... and cold truth you pretty much illustrated my point about coming up with some weird analytical shit on why not to like his music... but i guess you got to when you cant dis his music straight out you'd have to come with some round about reasons huh... i could go through and pick your post to shreds on why it aint got nothin to do with wether or not the music is good... but all i will really say is... " i wonder what Jesus thinks about that...." you've got to be shittin me hahaha... come on now... thats what is dope about music... you allowed to express all kinds of shit... even ideas that contradict each other on some level... and ill tell you what jesus thinks about that... jesus liked his ho's in shape.... you ever seen a picture of mary magdeline? it looked like she worked out... nah but seriously i got to say it again... truth you perfectly illustrated what i was sayin... you aint really comment on his beats or his rhyme skillz except one little line out of many many paragraphs... you dont like his personality? it "rubs you the wrong way" haha ... YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL HE IS IN THE MAINSTREAM... i cant think of one other cat in the "mainstream" that can come close to being real hip hop.... and the cats kanye is bout to put on are real fuckin artists that deserve to get on ... (bumpy j, consequence).... but yo i gotta ask who do you like.... christian rappers? seriously i know you said you done posting about it but please as a favor to me just one more post... tell me who you do like... cause all that shit you said you eliminate alot of if not most people out...

 

[Fade]

Let me remind everyone that the whole reason for this "official thread" is to avoid having a million separate threads about Kanye that clutter up the forum.

But see???? See how out of control this is? I forsee 50 pages of this thread when all is said and done.

 

[Formant024]

We're discussing exploitation issues and nobody realises it, if it wasn't Kanye we'd be talkin' about that one particulair product from the roc factory, that one particulair or potential out of a thousand. I'm very commercialy biased on a professional level meaning that I stand objective to the industry and ANY artist in it. They're message or intentions personaly dont mean anything besides making money. I aint no blind consumer, to me Kanye equals consume or die, nothing more, nothing less.
And like said before, his talent is only relative, he aint no friggin' brain eno and tonnes of people can rap, he is one of the lucky kids who got through a industry where talent isn't a main concern. There's been no reason for his stuck up attitude, his character to me is transparant, just a heap of air and he just so full of it...

 

[N.U.G.]

We're discussing exploitation issues and nobody realises it, if it wasn't Kanye we'd be talkin' about that one particulair product from the roc factory, that one particulair or potential out of a thousand. I'm very commercialy biased on a professional level meaning that I stand objective to the industry and ANY artist in it. They're message or intentions personaly dont mean anything besides making money. I aint no blind consumer, to me Kanye equals consume or die, nothing more, nothing less.
And like said before, his talent is only relative, he aint no friggin' brain eno and tonnes of people can rap, he is one of the lucky kids who got through a industry where talent isn't a main concern. There's been no reason for his stuck up attitude, his character to me is transparant, just a heap of air and he just so full of it...

so you hate whoever's hot?

I didn't buy Kanye's album cause of any advertising or nothing like that. I heard some tracks on the internet, thought it was dope and copped it and it's easily one of the best albums I've ever had the pleasure of hearing (and I've been a hip-hop listener since Run DMC).

a couple of questions for you;

1) have you heard the album?

2) what recent albums so you actually like and/or consider classic material?

 

[RigorMortis]

it aint about hating it is all about not swallowing what they shove up your mouth and ears..

 

[N.U.G.]

it aint about hating it is all about not swallowing what they shove up your mouth and ears..

it's about making intelligent decisions about what music to appreciate regardless of how mainstraem or underground an artist is.

what are your favourite albums from 2004?

 

[Formant024]

so you hate whoever's hot?

It aint hate if im not bothered by him or his music, I have little personal interest in the commercial side of music besides producing the lot. If we're talking good music I look into a whole different direction. Kanye to me is a product, not an icon.

I didn't buy Kanye's album cause of any advertising or nothing like that. I heard some tracks on the internet, thought it was dope and copped it and it's easily one of the best albums I've ever had the pleasure of hearing (and I've been a hip-hop listener since Run DMC).

I didn't buy it or didn't even took the time to scope it, same goes for all the artists in the charts. I make the music, listening to the music to me is like reviewing a bad example, it's MY personal criticism for the work I do in the studio. Might seem arrogant but I'm really just too confident about the fact that nothing is impossible if you get the chance to be exposed. That potential is an ad random factor, same for eminem, if it wasn't him another white mc could/would have been sufficient.

a couple of questions for you;

1) have you heard the album?

I've heard one track when switching channels, accidently, on Mtv. Cant even name the track but I think pitched vocals are a bit corny, unneccesary considering the scale of the project around Kanye. Considering it's not really my thang I would obviously never buy the album.

2) what recent albums so you actually like and/or consider classic material?[/QUOTE]

Hehe, none, it all history repeating. I think a lot these days are mediocre and overrated by an easy overconsuming audience.

The question is, can you be objective ?

Imagine being a commercialy biased producer that's not dedicated to just hiphop and consorts.

 

[N.U.G.]

It aint hate if im not bothered by him or his music, I have little personal interest in the commercial side of music besides producing the lot. If we're talking good music I look into a whole different direction. Kanye to me is a product, not an icon.

I didn't buy it or didn't even took the time to scope it, same goes for all the artists in the charts. I make the music, listening to the music to me is like reviewing a bad example, it's MY personal criticism for the work I do in the studio. Might seem arrogant but I'm really just too confident about the fact that nothing is impossible if you get the chance to be exposed. That potential is an ad random factor, same for eminem, if it wasn't him another white mc could/would have been sufficient.

a couple of questions for you;

1) have you heard the album?

I've heard one track when switching channels, accidently, on Mtv. Cant even name the track but I think pitched vocals are a bit corny, unneccesary considering the scale of the project around Kanye. Considering it's not really my thang I would obviously never buy the album.

2) what recent albums so you actually like and/or consider classic material?

Hehe, none, it all history repeating. I think a lot these days are mediocre and overrated by an easy overconsuming audience.

The question is, can you be objective ?

Imagine being a commercialy biased producer that's not dedicated to just hiphop and consorts.

that's real sad man...

 

[MadScientist]

If someone doesn't like what you like, why do you call it hating? In reality by calling someone else a hater your hating on them for there views and opinions. So is Illmuzik a site with a bunch of haters on it? Just because someone simply says "I think kanye is poop" That's not hating .... that's expressing your opinion on his music. Some people like it, some don't. Some relate, some don't. I'm getting real tired of the endless attacks on people who don't care for Kanye ..... they act like you have to like his music and if you don't something is wrong with you. I personally think Kanye is crap. He has made some cool beats .... but to ride his dick like some of my fellow illmuzik family members do is down right disgusting. If you like him and his music that's fine ... I'm not forcing you to not like him. So why do you force those who do not like Kanye to like him and his music?

 

[N.U.G.]

If someone doesn't like what you like, why do you call it hating? In reality by calling someone else a hater your hating on them for there views and opinions. So is Illmuzik a site with a bunch of haters on it? Just because someone simply says "I think kanye is poop" That's not hating .... that's expressing your opinion on his music. Some people like it, some don't. Some relate, some don't. I'm getting real tired of the endless attacks on people who don't care for Kanye ..... they act like you have to like his music and if you don't something is wrong with you. I personally think Kanye is crap. He has made some cool beats .... but to ride his dick like some of my fellow illmuzik family members do is down right disgusting. If you like him and his music that's fine ... I'm not forcing you to not like him. So why do you force those who do not like Kanye to like him and his music?

it's NOT hating if you have a valid reason

it IS hating if you don't have a valid reason

this cat "rigormortis" has never once offered any intelligent explanation as to why he dislikes Kanye West's music. I suspect he just says shit to create arguements.

my man "Formant024" just mentioned that he has never actually heard Kanye's album although he has "heard one track when switching channels, accidently, on Mtv" and based on this he makes comments in this thread about "exploitation issues" or something.

if you don't like Kanye's music, that's all good - but if you're going to make comments about why his music is so bad, it would be nice if you could share some intelligent reasons why, so that we can have an intelligent discussion in which we may all learn something of value. is that too much to ask?