Musicianship is beginning to take prevalence in hip-hop.

[The Konductor]

The time is upon us that musicians have become even more of an important part of creating hip-hop. Not to say that musicianship hasn't always been important, because without it hip-hop producers wouldn't have anything to sample from.

What I'm getting at is the fact that more and more "musicians" are getting into hip-hop production. For instance Jonathan "JR" Rotem, who was featured in the latest issue of Scratch, is a classiclly trained musician who has seen recent success as a hip-hop producer. Also featured in that issue of Scratch was Lil Jon's crew of session players turned co-producers. For some reason I knew even before I read that article that Lil Jon was doing more than just playing his signature synth line that we all love. Or not. Same with Dr. Dre. Which if you take a close listen to his early work, his latest and everything between, you'll notice a big difference. That difference being Mike Elizondo (keys/guitar) and Hector.....umm I forgot his last name. But these guys are "musicians". Yeah Dre humms the lines, but these guys are playing them and alot of the time improving and co-producing because they add or take Dre's ideas to a better place.

Also the other day I was watching the talk show Ellen, and she had on some kid (teenagers) brothers who played the violin sickass. They were called Nothin But Strings and they were playing hip-hop covers (Usher) and oringinal compostions.

What do Ya'll think about this current trend in hip-hop? Do any of you fellow beatmisters employ musicians to get down on a track? Is anyone comsidering that notion? I know I am. Personally I'm kinda scared that the market will flood even more so due to classically trained musicians entering and the affordability of equipment. I think I'm gonna start working more on my chops and also employ a music teacher, which of course I should do anyway just to stay up and be the best I can be.

Also just to let you know, this thread isn't saying that most hip-hop producers aren't real musicians or anything like that, cuz I understand that it does take a musical ear to dig and loop beats. So save those comments for a thread that warrants it. I had to put that disclaimer in because peeps always seem to confuse my points. Can't wait to hear what you kids have to say.

 

[classic]

LOL ive been sayin this for the longist, its the natural progession of hip hop

Why sample somthing when u can play it, or sample yourself playin it......

Its the next level, but most people are too afraid to realise it

class.....

 

[RigorMortis]

LOL ive been sayin this for the longist, its the natural progession of hip hop

Why sample somthing when u can play it, or sample yourself playin it......

Its the next level, but most people are too afraid to realise it

class.....

I can be short on this one: bullshit

 

[Copenhagen]

If I could afford it, I would definitely use real musicians for everything i do. I would also take music lessons but the money ain't there at the moment. However, I try to use some guitarists I know when I want guitar on my beats, as I can never simulate guitar as good as any other instrument.

 

[Ambition]

I have also gone to formal music training for my production. There is a lot of producers that actually play that or crossing over into hip-hop like scott storch and that cat that was recntly in the scratch mag. Plus we have been bangin our heads to the Neptunes beat for years and also Dr.Dre is formally trained in piano.

 

[Fade]

It's not what you use, but how you use it!














j/k ahahah that's been said to death.


Ummm, I agree there's lots of musicianship in rap right now but I think it's just a natural progression that's taking place. But please don't say sampling's on the way out, if that ever happened I'd cut my own head off with my copy of Bionic Booger Breaks.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I dont think i would hire somebody else to play, but i play some live bass/guitar, drums, and/or piano on some of my beats.

 

[eXampuL_oNe]

I have noticed this and I'm thinkin about gettin in with musicians. The only problem is most of the people I ask don't want there music put into hip hop.. I know one guitar player and that's my homie's engineer so he's always busy, but it would be dope to get a fuckin Orchestra together (If i had that kind of bread). I actually wanted to do this since I first started sampling so it could really be original. One of the only things I would have to get use to is the work process.

I wouldn't know where to begin. Should I ask them to just play some shit or fuckin "hum" something? That would be the weirdest part for me, but I think after I got around that It would be dope. You would really have to learn the capabilites of your musician(s) in order to take full advantage of that though. But, I wouldn't mind doin that anytime soon as a matter of fact, It'd be pretty dope...

 

[The Konductor]

The only problem is most of the people I ask don't want there music put into hip hop.. but it would be dope to get a fuckin Orchestra together (If i had that kind of bread). I actually wanted to do this since I first started sampling so it could really be original. One of the only things I would have to get use to is the work process.

I wouldn't know where to begin. Should I ask them to just play some shit or fuckin "hum" something? That would be the weirdest part for me, but I think after I got around that It would be dope. ...

Just get w/ musicians who all kinds love all of music. I know what you're saying though, ego's always get in the way of progress.

And you're right, just humm something to them, and then let them put their spin on it or take it somewhere you couldn't of thought of yourself. But beware that once they add to the composition, they're entitled to co-production credits, which can translate into publishing rights. Thats if they want them.

 

[MarkN]

I can be short on this one: bullshit

co-sign !!!!!!

 

[2_nice]

i also agree with rogormortis........ bullshit

 

[classic]

I can be short on this one: bullshit

So its bullshit Huh???
Well i think its just producers getting scared. I never said sampling is going anywhere. Sampling is the foundation of hip hop, but it was only a matter of time untill the next gerneration of trained musicans that grew up listeing to hip hop would take their training and apply it to the artform.

I happen to be one of those people.

Again sampling is dope, and i have been doing it alot lately and actually ive gotton pretty good at it. Sampling isent going nowhere but, you cant ignore the natural progession of hip hop as an artform. Like it or not, musicans are gonna take hip hop to the next level.
Not to mention clearing samples these days is NOT profiable at all,, like it or not this is a business. All these factors are pushing musicans into hip hop....

I find that most people who hold on to sampling and dont wanna see musicans become involved are intimedeated becasue they dont have the skills or the resources to keep up. Others just have a narrow view of what hip hop should sound like

While yall argue and call it bullshit, your favroite producers are already using musicans or composing themsevles (some have been doing it for years)

YOU can either execpt it and embrace musicnas in hip hop
Or
Fall by the wayside

Either way, its gonna happen

class.....

FYI whats really dope is when u can do both(sampleing or compsotion), U can beat the haterz at their own game. Its a great feeling!

 

[Renegade Music]

"FYI whats really dope is when u can do both(sampleing or compsotion), U can be the haterz at their own game. Its a great feeling!"

Thats my style!!! I like to incorperate both samples and compositions in my production along with live instruments.I also use hardware and software nor do I prefer either...So this type of style/workflow offers a great amount of versitility in the creative process aswell as the sound obtained by using samples/virtual instruments/live instruments/sound modules/workstations etc. together in harmony,the sound is very mmm ... dynamic?

 

[DJ Hoppa]

So its bullshit Huh???
Well i think its just producers getting scared. I never said sampling is going anywhere. Sampling is the foundation of hip hop, but it was only a matter of time untill the next gerneration of trained musicans that grew up listeing to hip hop would take their training and apply it to the artform.

I happen to be one of those people.

Again sampling is dope, and i have been doing it alot lately and actually ive gotton pretty good at it. Sampling isent going nowhere but, you cant ignore the natural progession of hip hop as an artform. Like it or not, musicans are gonna take hip hop to the next level.
Not to mention clearing samples these days is NOT profiable at all,, like it or not this is a business. All these factors are pushing musicans into hip hop....

I find that most people who hold on to sampling and dont wanna see musicans become involved are intimedeated becasue they dont have the skills or the resources to keep up. Others just have a narrow view of what hip hop should sound like

While yall argue and call it bullshit, your favroite producers are already using musicans or composing themsevles (some have been doing it for years)

YOU can either execpt it and embrace musicnas in hip hop
Or
Fall by the wayside

Either way, its gonna happen

class.....

FYI whats really dope is when u can do both(sampleing or compsotion), U can beat the haterz at their own game. Its a great feeling!

Haha, Class, the only reason people are declaring "bullshit" is because of your "holier than thou" attitude and you feeling ultra special because you play instruments on your tracks.

I sample, play bass, tambourine, drums, shakers, congas, guitar, piano, and all that jazz, but your statement came across as "bullshit", hence those replys.

 

[classic]

Haha, Class, the only reason people are declaring "bullshit" is because of your "holier than thou" attitude and you feeling ultra special because you play instruments on your tracks.

I sample, play bass, tambourine, drums, shakers, congas, guitar, piano, and all that jazz, but your statement came across as "bullshit", hence those replys.

Well it wasn’t my intention to come off "Holier then thow" I was just stating my opionion as usual. People can take it or leave it. Most of the people who have had a chance to talk to me personally know that is far from the case.

As far as feeling special, well fuck it, ill say it,
I do feel special because I can do that shit, it’s a gift. No different then u feelin special cause u can flip all those ill samples that nobody else could . If kanye can be an outright cocky motherfukcer and people ride his nuts, can class feel a lil special casue all the fucking work he put in as a kid finally paid off??
While kids were outside playin, im being forced to work on my fuckin scales and shit………. lol


Class…

 

[Cold Truth]

whooo boy

*bangs head on wall*

such hostility, for no reason.

i personally do not see the need for such a divide. all thats being said here is, live playing is becoming more and more commonplace, and is likely the next avenue for hip hop. lots of undergound "real" hip hop groups- crown city rockers and dujeous, for example, play live. its a viable statement and a credible one. it is, in my opinion, something that can blow the doors wide open for hip hop as a whole.

now, for all the samplers calling "bullshit", whats bullshit about that? nobody said anything negative about sampling to my recollection. what did you take offense to, exactly? was it the "most people are afraid to admit it" statement? or the "why sample if you can play it yourself?" statement?
i am trying real hard to figure out what was so offensive, because i dont see it, unless you take the mere inkling that sampling isnt the only way to go as an offense, which would be pure ignorance if you ask me.

 

[sYgMa]

That's what I'm aiming at right now, actually. My father is a guitarist and he left me his guitar (a Fender TC-90 Thinline) at my appartement... We'll probably do something soon, but I'm just wondering if I'm gonna ask him to be part of the process or not. He's not really into hiphop, and I dont know squat about progressions and all... :s

Well... we'll see

 

[DJ Hoppa]

As far as feeling special, well fuck it, ill say it,
I do feel special because I can do that shit, it’s a gift. No different then u feelin special cause u can flip all those ill samples that nobody else could . If kanye can be an outright cocky motherfukcer and people ride his nuts, can class feel a lil special casue all the fucking work he put in as a kid finally paid off??
While kids were outside playin, im being forced to work on my fuckin scales and shit………. lol
Class…

As was I, class, I studied piano for 8 years, starting @ age 5.

I know what it's like to be forced to practice EVERY DAY for a loooong time.

I don't see any need for divide, I was just stating why I thought people were saying : BULLSHIT


This is the "holier than thou" attitude I caught:

Why sample somthing when u can play it, or sample yourself playin it......
Its the next level, but most people are too afraid to realise it
class.....

I find that most people who hold on to sampling and dont wanna see musicans become involved are intimedeated becasue they dont have the skills or the resources to keep up.

You're basically attacking people who sample with those statements.

It's the next level = samplers are basic.

too afraid to realize = samplers are fearing this.

intimidated/don't have the skills = talking shit.


I can get DOWN on the keys bro. I'm a fucking one man band, so I don't fall into the group of "samplers" you are speaking down upon, who fear this "change" in hip hop.


I LOVE live instrumentation.

Your statements just seemed like they were dissing people who sample, and making people who play shit live on a higher level, which is completely untrue.

No harm, no foul, I still love you.

 

[kojo]

well it is definitely playing a bigger part nowadays. even sample-based cats like kanye and just blaze have been hiring out musician/producers such as Ken Lewis to replay elements or create all new compositions for them to freak. with the courts new ruling on sampling along with the artist trying to make the producer "eat" the sample if it even does clear, it just isnt as profitable or feasible to sample. listen to whats big on the charts now and how they were made, i wouldnt be surprised if hiphop has a pretty different sound a decade from today since it is all about breakin the rules.

 

[classic]

Welll let me clarify hop,

SAMPLING IS DOPE, seriously

I was going to make another thread about this but as u know, i came across a pretty extensive vinyl collection from my old man recently. And for the past few months i have been sampling.
I have a new respect for cats like pete rock, and premiere because sampling forces u listen to music , u ordinarily wouldn’t hear everyday. I like sampling(a lot) and i have no arguments against it, when it comes down to it a dope beat is a dope beat. I feel that learning how to sample has giving me foundation in hip hop that most southern producers don’t have

With that being said...

Hip hop is progressing toward musicians...

Just listen to the latest kanye track (diamonds) Its mad composition around a sample. As a matter of fact the sample isn’t even the meat of the song. Cats are naive if they think kanye did that synth composition by himself.

Kanye hired a cat like you or me, to come in and compose over the sample.

Maybe that’s why I feel privileged, because I wont have to go to “outside” help for composition ( well yea I still will for guitars and stuff but u get the point)

I got love for u 2 hop, NO HOMO, still rockin the album too I brought it to the dymaic producers meeting.

class...

P.S Im not even that “nice” on the keys, I can hold my own and shit Ive played for years, But the saxophone is my first instrument…