Do you guys ever put anything on the Master Channel? And if so what? Cuz lately when I mix, each individual track such as the kick doesn't clip and sounds full and fine, but when I play them all together, the Master Channel is clipping off the charts and I try and mess with it to try and keep it from clipping and at the same time keep the sound of each individual track full, but I can't seem to get it to happen. Any help?
Mixing the Master Channel
- Thread starter nonie
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Sanova
Guess Who's Back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 9
well if you already adjusted its track so that they dont individually clip... just turn down the master volume. thats what that is.
then you can always apply a maximizer once you mix it down in wav form. or even apply it to the master channel. i dont have this problem but either compress ur channels. or turn it all down and maximize it.
i dunno, im kinda spoiled with reasons mastering suite
then you can always apply a maximizer once you mix it down in wav form. or even apply it to the master channel. i dont have this problem but either compress ur channels. or turn it all down and maximize it.
i dunno, im kinda spoiled with reasons mastering suite
well, first thing, if you're not using pans (a lot of ppl dont), try panning your instruments in different directions to give the mix bus some room to breath. Keep your main drums (K, SN, HH) panned center, bass panned center, and lead vocals panned center. Everything else should have its own space somewhere in the mix. Now, if you are making good use of pans, then try losering the level of everything. Generally when I start a mix, my kick drum(s) are sitting at around -10db.
Also, even though you are seeing clips, are you HEARING clips? The meters in a lot of software applications aren't exactly accurate and a lot of times if you don't hear that clip, it's usually 1 or 2 samples (44100/96000 etc) in the waveform that have clipped, which you are NOT gonna hear.
Also another thing, don't worry about the loudness of your mix. The point is to get a good solid blend and sound, then the track goes to mastering where they will pull the level up and get it sounding crisp. The problem here is, a lot of bedroom producers want their mixes to sound loud, which is understandable because nobody wants to pay for mastering if the tracks arent getting major placements. What you can do is throw an L2 or Maxim plugin on the master fader (after you've lowered the levels of the rest of your mix), and this will maximize the loudness of the song. Keep in mind, its basically just smashing the whole sound, so use it in moderation.
you can also find a multiband compressor plugin (or hardware if you have it), and throw that on your stereo bus. The problem here is most young producers have never even heard of a multiband compressor and wouldnt even know where to start when using it. But play with it. If you feel the bass isnt sticking out enough, compress the Low band a little more, etc etc. Try to use your ears. Hopefully a combination of all these things can help you out. But the BIGGEST thing, is start mixing with a kick and snare level of approx -10db...goo starting point
Also, even though you are seeing clips, are you HEARING clips? The meters in a lot of software applications aren't exactly accurate and a lot of times if you don't hear that clip, it's usually 1 or 2 samples (44100/96000 etc) in the waveform that have clipped, which you are NOT gonna hear.
Also another thing, don't worry about the loudness of your mix. The point is to get a good solid blend and sound, then the track goes to mastering where they will pull the level up and get it sounding crisp. The problem here is, a lot of bedroom producers want their mixes to sound loud, which is understandable because nobody wants to pay for mastering if the tracks arent getting major placements. What you can do is throw an L2 or Maxim plugin on the master fader (after you've lowered the levels of the rest of your mix), and this will maximize the loudness of the song. Keep in mind, its basically just smashing the whole sound, so use it in moderation.
you can also find a multiband compressor plugin (or hardware if you have it), and throw that on your stereo bus. The problem here is most young producers have never even heard of a multiband compressor and wouldnt even know where to start when using it. But play with it. If you feel the bass isnt sticking out enough, compress the Low band a little more, etc etc. Try to use your ears. Hopefully a combination of all these things can help you out. But the BIGGEST thing, is start mixing with a kick and snare level of approx -10db...goo starting point
djswivel said:
I ususally pan. Is there a way to give each instrument their space without panning though?
-10db? That's kinda low isn't it? How loud do you have your monitors when you mix? but thanks for the in depth explanation man. I'll try out the -10db thing and see how it goes.
You're right. I'm not hearing clips but I see it.
Sanova
Guess Who's Back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 9
Seoul P said:
on a mixer. (i'll use my mixer for example) 00 is the normal setting, +10 is the highest. and anything below 00 is i nthe negatives. on software, you probbably wont see -10..
like reason.. the max is 127. the normal is 100. lowest is 0. same for cubase i beleive. so when he says -10. that would prolly translate to 90 on software.
well im used to working in a professional environment where everything is being sent to mastering. Honestly, get the number out of your head. When you're mixing, the overall volume makes NO DIFFERENCE. Ok yes, you don't want the overall volume at some stupidly low level that when you bring it up you raise the noise floor by some stupid amount and it sounds like shit...but the purpose of mixing is to get the SOUND you want....The mastering engineer worries about maximizing the volume and getting it to a proper volume level.
Since you're not going to mastering, then just make sure you're not hearing the clips. Problem is, a lot of dudes don't even know what to listen for. You're not always gonna have that hard distortion sound unless its clipping WAAAAAY over the ceiling. If the meters are just chilling on the red, you likely need to lower it. If it's just hittin on a few kicks or snare or percussive sounds, but you cant hear any audible distortion you're probably pretty good....use you're judgement. you're ears are the BEST tool! A lot of guys are mixing with there eyes now, and forgetting about their ears. i hope you get some better results!
Since you're not going to mastering, then just make sure you're not hearing the clips. Problem is, a lot of dudes don't even know what to listen for. You're not always gonna have that hard distortion sound unless its clipping WAAAAAY over the ceiling. If the meters are just chilling on the red, you likely need to lower it. If it's just hittin on a few kicks or snare or percussive sounds, but you cant hear any audible distortion you're probably pretty good....use you're judgement. you're ears are the BEST tool! A lot of guys are mixing with there eyes now, and forgetting about their ears. i hope you get some better results!
0 - 127 is Velocity.
In the Console/Mixer etc view on any sequencer it will show the level in dBFS.
The problem is what has been already said. The levels are too loud.
Lets say for example. Your Kick channel peaks at -2dBFS and your Snare channel peaks at -2dBFS. Now thats all well and fine. However if both the Kick and the Snare hit at the same time and both peak at -2dBFS at the same time, you will clip.
When you add the 2 signals together at the same dB levels it will cause a +3dBFS increase in the gain.
In your track it's not going to be that exact but if your mixing all the individual levels too close to 0dBFS, when they combine your going to overload and clip.
Try mixing it lower. When the whole track is playing it should peak around -5dBFS (that is my opinion).
If you are not going to have your tracks mastered then you can compress/limit or whatever you wish on the master fader to make it louder.
If you do this, you'll notice how much clearer your tracks will sound. It really does make a huge difference. When I learned this it made a world of difference.
Also dont forget.. too much distortion of that nature at higher volume will blow your speakers.
*EDIT*
Also don't forget... If the mix is well balanced to begin with, you won't need a MBC. A regular qaulity compressor will do just fine. Most consider the MBC to be a band aid tool for a bad mix. You shouldn't need to compress the bass and mids and hi's seperately on the master fader. You can do this on the individual tracks with a much better result.
In the Console/Mixer etc view on any sequencer it will show the level in dBFS.
The problem is what has been already said. The levels are too loud.
Lets say for example. Your Kick channel peaks at -2dBFS and your Snare channel peaks at -2dBFS. Now thats all well and fine. However if both the Kick and the Snare hit at the same time and both peak at -2dBFS at the same time, you will clip.
When you add the 2 signals together at the same dB levels it will cause a +3dBFS increase in the gain.
In your track it's not going to be that exact but if your mixing all the individual levels too close to 0dBFS, when they combine your going to overload and clip.
Try mixing it lower. When the whole track is playing it should peak around -5dBFS (that is my opinion).
If you are not going to have your tracks mastered then you can compress/limit or whatever you wish on the master fader to make it louder.
If you do this, you'll notice how much clearer your tracks will sound. It really does make a huge difference. When I learned this it made a world of difference.
Also dont forget.. too much distortion of that nature at higher volume will blow your speakers.
*EDIT*
Also don't forget... If the mix is well balanced to begin with, you won't need a MBC. A regular qaulity compressor will do just fine. Most consider the MBC to be a band aid tool for a bad mix. You shouldn't need to compress the bass and mids and hi's seperately on the master fader. You can do this on the individual tracks with a much better result.
5th Sequence
Hip Hop Head, Certified
swivel, i like how you put that. Just within the past month i've come to terms with not necissarily having a "loud mix" but a "solid mix" in terms of sound quality and the exact sound i want. I have to say there was a huge difference in quality when I tracked it out an then did more extensive mixing/mastering. I bought 4 books on mixing in the last few weeks. They all say the same thing.
DONT WORRY ABOUT THE LEVELS. An they really stress that too. The only reasonable thing I could think is for the more budget minded artist who ISNT signed and is paying out of pocket for beats. they probably wont be getting anything mastered so doing what you can with it might be worth while. l
DONT WORRY ABOUT THE LEVELS. An they really stress that too. The only reasonable thing I could think is for the more budget minded artist who ISNT signed and is paying out of pocket for beats. they probably wont be getting anything mastered so doing what you can with it might be worth while. l
E
Equality 7-2521
Guest
Another thing i like to put on my master channel is PAZ Analyser. I put it last in the chain as it is purely an information tool. It tells you about the frequency response, phase coherancy, levels etc of your mix. Very handy.
But as everyone else has said, if your getting clipping PULL THE FADER DOWN!
But as everyone else has said, if your getting clipping PULL THE FADER DOWN!
wrightboy
Formally Finnigan
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
djswivel said:
good shit. i usually start out with all of my track at -6db. and as far as panning, i usually pan the bass +/-5. that way, it still sounds as if it's centered, but i leaves a little more room for the kick. just my personal flavor.
finnigan said:
Personally I would keep the bass panned center. The kick is a percussive effect and will slam right through the bassline. To me that would just send the mix off kilter a little. Generally, its a good idea to keep you kick, snare, hats, bassline, and lead vocals panned center. You can work with everything else.
As far as the order of effects (forgot who asked it, too lazy to go back and look), it does make a differenece. If you throw an EQ on a track, followed by a compressor, you will compress post EQ, and it will come through like that in the mix. If you compress first, then start adding, and subtracting on the EQ, you're gonna ruin the job of the compressor. Just think logically, and it should come to you. If it makes sense, it's probably right....
Hypnotist
Ear Manipulator
ill o.g.
Yo Seoul,
I'll say this a thousand times. You can never put a band-aid on a gaping wound. The levels are the most important thing BEFORE you use any compression or limiting on the master fader.
Sine waves are additive. This means that when there are two peaks at the same time, it's more amplitude. So if you have a peak at -2dB on your kick and a peak at -1dB on your bass track, it won't clip while you solo each of them, but put them together and you're 1dB over zero already.
Usually it's the kick, snare, and vocals that make your levels peak the most, but it's what happens underneath that ride it up more, like the added bass and main melody.
Start by giving your instruments more headroom when you begin your mix, and you WON'T CLIP. If it's not loud enough for you, then turn up your monitors.
Finally, when you HAVE YOUR MIX, that's when you put a plug-in on it. If you use a limiter BEFORE you have a mix, then it's not YOU who mixed the song, it's the COMPRESSOR.
Any time you use compression along the signal flow of the master bus, you'll see that every fader move you make will affect the entire mix. So if you move the kick up a hair, you'll hear a "breathing", where the guitars or sample will duck in and out while your kick hits. So then you turn your kick down too far, and now your vocals are screaming too loud.
When your song is mixed before you use compression, it'll be the best mixes you've ever made. And I'm not even mentioning panning or EQ or reverb or any of that.
It's all about the levels and what you can hear. Think about the guy listening to the radio at work thru a shitty mono speaker in the ceiling. Will he hear everything you just mixed?
--------
Okay, to answer your question, I use the L1 Ultramaximizer. I love it, because after my mix is done, I can push the envelope and the tracks in my mix "talk to eachother" and you get this slight push-pull feel with your song when everything is right and you've used it in moderation.
I'll say this a thousand times. You can never put a band-aid on a gaping wound. The levels are the most important thing BEFORE you use any compression or limiting on the master fader.
Sine waves are additive. This means that when there are two peaks at the same time, it's more amplitude. So if you have a peak at -2dB on your kick and a peak at -1dB on your bass track, it won't clip while you solo each of them, but put them together and you're 1dB over zero already.
Usually it's the kick, snare, and vocals that make your levels peak the most, but it's what happens underneath that ride it up more, like the added bass and main melody.
Start by giving your instruments more headroom when you begin your mix, and you WON'T CLIP. If it's not loud enough for you, then turn up your monitors.
Finally, when you HAVE YOUR MIX, that's when you put a plug-in on it. If you use a limiter BEFORE you have a mix, then it's not YOU who mixed the song, it's the COMPRESSOR.
Any time you use compression along the signal flow of the master bus, you'll see that every fader move you make will affect the entire mix. So if you move the kick up a hair, you'll hear a "breathing", where the guitars or sample will duck in and out while your kick hits. So then you turn your kick down too far, and now your vocals are screaming too loud.
When your song is mixed before you use compression, it'll be the best mixes you've ever made. And I'm not even mentioning panning or EQ or reverb or any of that.
It's all about the levels and what you can hear. Think about the guy listening to the radio at work thru a shitty mono speaker in the ceiling. Will he hear everything you just mixed?
--------
Okay, to answer your question, I use the L1 Ultramaximizer. I love it, because after my mix is done, I can push the envelope and the tracks in my mix "talk to eachother" and you get this slight push-pull feel with your song when everything is right and you've used it in moderation.
Hypnotist
Ear Manipulator
ill o.g.
Oh, and P.S...
If you're using Pro Tools, make sure "Pre-Fader Metering" is turned off. If this is on, then any movement you do with a fader won't even register on the meter. It's okay to use this for recording, but when you're mixing, it's good to get some visual feedback from the meter on what you're doing with the fader.
** Edit
Okay, I was lazy and didn't read the other posts before I opened my mouth so I'm adding...
I think I've posted this before, but back in the days, the main reason why the kick and the bass were always panned center is because engineers found the kick and bass would pop the record needle right out of the track if it was panned anywhere else.
In the mean time, engineers would usually pan drums accordingly to the perspective of the drummer (and in live performances panned in the perspective of the audience) *not always the case tho...
But it is a matter of taste, and maybe a few heads will mix the kick and snare off to the side and change music a little. It is comfortable listening though; to have the meat of the record right in the middle where you expect it to be, and have everything else in its own cozy little place to divert from the center.
If you're using Pro Tools, make sure "Pre-Fader Metering" is turned off. If this is on, then any movement you do with a fader won't even register on the meter. It's okay to use this for recording, but when you're mixing, it's good to get some visual feedback from the meter on what you're doing with the fader.
** Edit
Okay, I was lazy and didn't read the other posts before I opened my mouth so I'm adding...
djswivel said:
I think I've posted this before, but back in the days, the main reason why the kick and the bass were always panned center is because engineers found the kick and bass would pop the record needle right out of the track if it was panned anywhere else.
In the mean time, engineers would usually pan drums accordingly to the perspective of the drummer (and in live performances panned in the perspective of the audience) *not always the case tho...
But it is a matter of taste, and maybe a few heads will mix the kick and snare off to the side and change music a little. It is comfortable listening though; to have the meat of the record right in the middle where you expect it to be, and have everything else in its own cozy little place to divert from the center.
5th Sequence
Hip Hop Head, Certified
yeah i was waiting for you to post hypno, wondered where you where for a minute.