Melle Mel To NYC Hip-Hop: "You're Finished."

manguino

Pressure Makes Diamonds
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
What are New York niggaz so hot about? What's the problem? The problem is as plain as the nose on your face. New York Gangsta Rap is boring. It's bullshit, and it's all but played out. Even your man 50 is the most R&B song singingest, party rapper in the history of the game. So what's the problem? Why you niggaz hatin'? What's so wack about the Dirty South? Maybe it's the same thing that I was saying about New York Gangsta Rap 15 years ago. Was I right?

They think the South shit is wack. I thought that their shit was wack. Let me explain. In the beginning, in order to rap, you had to be able to rap. Example: Mele Mel, Kool Moe Dee, Big Daddy Kane, Kool G. Rap & Rakim. You get the point. There came a point that with Gangsta Rap, it was more based on the image of the gangsta than on the quality of the rap (Biggie & Pac not included).

As Gangsta Rap became more popular, New York Hip-Hop, like Tribe Called Quest & De La Soul became obsolete. It was considered to be too soft. Then the up and coming rappers, instead of stepping up on their rap game, jumped on the gangsta bandwagon, not concentrating on the quality of their rhyme, more than the hardening of their image. At that point, New York Rap became bullshit. The songs were good, but the game was bullshit.

What's that quote, "Art imitates Life", or vice versa? Every nigga, and even some of the broads, in every ghetto lived to be hard. The sales went through the roof. America ate it all up, and the ghettos paid for it. I might have been mistaken in my last post regarding the statistics of whether teen pregnancies are up or down (point made AreSuu), but I am not mistaken on the fact that Gangsta Rap has a negative impact on the Black Community. Almost 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers (New York Times). In the words of Snoop Dogg, "we don't love dem ho's".

Then something funny happened. Little towns in the South & Midwest started doing their own flavor of Hip-Hop. Master P in New Orleans, Nelly in St. Louis, and so on... Not the greatest rappers ever heard, but they were doing their own thing. And, in the midst of all that, New York Gangsta Rap stayed the same. Kill this, sell that, fuck them. Then came the dirty south. Still, I considered it rap, but they called it Krunk. Slow paced, lyrically juvenile , highly effective. Mostly club, mostly dance & a whole lotta fun. Kinda reminds me of traditional Hip-Hop. The vibe I mean.

The shit caught fire. As of right now, it's the hottest shit in the clubs. Hotter than J. Even hotter than 50. But the people don't care. They just partying their ass off. There’s a new sheriff in town, and his name is T.I.. New York niggas straight hate it. They complain that the southern cats can't spit. But compared to the pioneers, they can't spit either. So what's all the fuckin' hate about? New niggaz forgot about us, and NOW NIGGAAZ ARE ABOUT TO FORGET ABOUT THEM. Case in point. Other than the east-coast power houses like G-Unit, sales are way down. New York Rap is in the fuckin' toilet.

So, I'm going to tell you niggaz, like you niggaz told me a long time ago, stop cryin’ nigga. You’re finished.

That shit hurts, right?

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=952864&mesg_id=952864&page=
 

Relic

Voice of Illmuzik Radio
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 83
Well , I just wish I could post some KRS One shit right here,,, but I respect that point of view and agree with some of it...I say good post and being that the internet is the medium, and posting mp3's for free is illegall do to the industry I cant just post a song for rebuttal, but good post.
Figures..
Melle Mel I respect, but I dont hate on the whole south by no means...
Viacom made shit "Minstrel"
okplayer is a good site..Il look at this in la manna and edit..
It aint ovah or hovah
 

LDB

Banned
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 73
I agree with those lines 199%. Hip Hop can't return to the east as long as they keep hatin' on the south.

I remember back in the day when NYC rappers came to the ATL we looked at them like they were Gods. Had a southern nigga wearing shell toes, lee jeans and dokey ropes. We always respected them,imitated them and show'd them nothing but love. It's amazing how much they hate the south now that hip hop or at least a form of it resides here. The south didn't change the game. The game just changed! It's a shame when one of the dopest New York rappers in years i.e. Joell Ortiz has to go out west to get on. If that doesn't speak volumes nothing does.

At times I feel the negative vibes about the south on this site. The world is a ghetto...derty south catz just spit from their point of view over beats that you can dance to. That's the hook...that's what brought our music to the for front. What's wrong with that? No, most don't spit like the catz do up north. But why should they? It's a whole diff't way of life down here. And wouldn't that make hip hop hella boring anyway?

If this blatant hate for southern music doesn't reverse itself soon NY or the east coast will never rebound in hip hop. You will have a whole generation from the south that remembers nothing but how much New York hates there music and they will never embrace anything they do. We may talk slow but trust me..shit is not like niggaz think. Dudes are not soon to forget when they get constantly shit'd on by dudes up north. I see this shit getting much worse unless some real catz from up top put a stop to this B.s. Cause that's what it is bullshit. A generation is a very long time! This shit is really sad..especially for us in between age souther catz who remember how shit use to be. I went to all the big concerts back in the day and most were artist from the east coast. Man I miss those days...this shit is depressing!
 

manguino

Pressure Makes Diamonds
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
I think there's too much we vs. you stuff going on. With the internet, so many people are copping other people's styles, whether it's the way they dress or the way they spit, everything is becoming so similar regardless is where you're from. I think we need to step away from the whole concept of a "coastal" rapper and just see them for how they represent themselves. I see lots of my friends repping rappers from the West for the sake of them being from the West, but that's bullshit. That's like supporting your president regardless of what he does, because hes your president.

I do agree with what Drama said too
 

LDB

Banned
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 73
I feel you Manguino. We as a hip hop lovers drop'd the ball and let this petty B.S get way out of hand. You can have your likes and dislikes about certain music. You can choose to support it or not. But to let it evolve into hate is some negative shit that will eventually consume the whole art form because those "others" that have never liked it will fuel the fire. That's why two of the best that ever did it and many more are no longer amongst the living. We can type til our fingers bleed but no one has got this shit yet. We'll have no one to blame if our music drys up and disappears but ourselves.
 

classic

I am proud to be southern
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 90
HE dont know what the fuck he is talkin bout. IN the beggining There were 2 strains of southern hip hop....

The true school first generation southern hip hop lyrical heads(who been around since early mid 90's)
--8ball MJG, UGK, outkast, goodiemob..Cool breeze, witch docter, trick-daddy & now cats like lil brother

And the club shit..
lil john, cash money, master P,All the ATL crunk ish,luke, miami bass

At first in the mid 90's that southern shit was balanced, you could hear both sides of the south.... but gradually that club shit took over and now you have these wack ass southern rappers saying my regions name in vain.....(fucking trash)

BUt for him to say southern hip hop has always been whack shows he dosent know southern hip hop... HE just listens to the radio *dumbass*
 

Guevara

BETTER THAN YESTERDAY
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 34
I REALLY DONT AGREE WIT ALL THIS LUMPING NIGGAS TOGETHER IN ONE CATEGORY AND SAYIN "YALL NEED TO STOP HATIN ON THE SOUTH". BUT I DO AGREE WIT THE IMPACT OF THE GANGSTA RAP INFLUENCE ON THE HOOD, I BOUGHT THIS POINT UP TO MONA SCOTT AT VIOLATOR ONE DAY AND SHE COULDNT SEE THE OBVIOUS CONNECTION BETWEEN BLACK DEATHS AND DECLINING SALES, THEY THINK ITS ALL INTERNET AND LACK OF INTEREST.
BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POINT THOUGH, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "NEW YORK" IM FROM NEW YORK BUT MY FAMILY ISNT, IM A DIE HARD CiTY BoY BUT EVEN IM 1ST GENERATION "NEW YORK" IF YOURE FROM A MAJOR CITY MORE THAN LIKELY YOUR FAMILY IS FROM THE SOUTH, POINT BLANK PERIOD, EVERYBODY FROM CHICAGO, HARLEM, BROOKLYN, LA HAS ROOTS IN MISSISSIPPI, THE CAROLINAS, GEORGIA, ALABAMA, NEW ORLEANS, WERE A BUNCH OF DISPLACED PEOPLE.
BUT CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF EVERYBODY ON THE EAST COAST DIDNT CONVERT TO GANSTER RAPISM, THE LABELS DID, IN FACT THE "UNDERGROUND" OF TODAY WAS MAINSTREAM RAP FOR A LONG TIME, GANGSTER RAP LITERALLY BURIED ANYTHING THAT WAS AROUND BEFORE IT. 85% OF THE SONGS THAT WE WERE RAISED ON WOULD NEVER GET ANY PLAY IN TODAYS MARKET.
IMA WRAP IT UP BUT WE NEED TO STOP KILLIN OURSELVES FOR ONE AND WE NEED TO STOP POPPIN ALL THIS NEW YORK HATES US SHIT, CUZ YALL OBVIOUSLY ARE VERY SENSITIVE ABOUT IT BUT IF U REALLY WANNA KNOW...WE DONT SPEND ANYTIME UP HERE TRYIN TO KNOCK YALL, WE JUST NEED A FAIR BALANCE WE NOT TRYIN TO HEAR THAT SHIT ALL DAY EVERYDAY BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS A LOT OF "YALL" ARE TRASH TRASH TRASH TRASH.TELL EM Che SAID SO. i AM NY

AND BEFORE ANYBODY TRYS TO FLY MY HEAD, I APPRECIATE GOOD MUSIC. IM OPEN MINDED ENOUGH TO LOOK AT SHIT THAT I WOULDNT LISTEN TO AND SAY "OK THESE NIGGAS IS ENJOYIN THEYSELVES, THATS COOL" CUZ EVERYBODY GOT A PREFERENCE AND LIFESTYLE, FROM CRUNK TO HYPHY. BUT IF U A NIGGA LIKE LIL WAYNE WHO WISHES HE WAS FROM NEW YORK AND GOT HIS WHOLE STYLE FROM A NEW YORK NIGGA DONT BE FLYIN OFF AT THE HANDLE TALKIN BOUT U THE BEST WHEN U AINT EVEN ORIGINAL, U JUST OVEREXPOSED.
 

LDB

Banned
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 73
yep...like I said...this will get worse before it gets better and that's if it gets better at all.

There are trash rappers in every sector of the game not just down south, that's a mute point IMO. I agree with the fact that it needs to be fair and balanced but I don't think that's anybodys fault down south. That resides with the powers that B. Once money became a factor in hip hop that shit was bound to happen.

Country music, Rock N Roll, pop, blue grass..lol They never have these issues.

It's a hot ass shame we even have to speak on this shit. The world is going to hell in a hand basket and the vehicle that could have been used to bring about a revolution will perish way before it does "HIP HOP".
 

Ash Holmz

The Bed-Stuy Fly Guy
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 207
ill say it before and ill say it again .. the game right now is based on gimmicks and singles ... thats the root of all the bullshit.. artist are tryin to make bullshit songs that stand out as opposed to beng themselves and focuisng on making quaity music ... with this new wave of rappers it will be funny to see who actually sticks around and even makes to a second album... dl4 ... nope ... mims ... maybe .. prolly not ... hurrican chris .. doubt it ... that "crispy" guy whatver his name is .. doubt it ... i could go on and on but i dont know these niggas names lmao... all these niggas are DEAD in the water after one hit lmao... gimmicks and singles ...... t-pain = fucing gimmick with his synthesized voice (although he is a great songwriter) ... how does he perfoorm live? .. does he attach a machine to his mouth? lol.... there are real artist out there too but thats the main problem for me.. mad giimmicks and silly, hot for one week singles.... makes me wanna throw up whn i heear some of this shit that passes for hip hop. they should nt even classify this shit in the same caterogory should be pop or something..
 

bigdmakintrax

BeatKreatoR
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 123
When there was no money in hip hop and the art was first respected that caused artistry to flow, when respect was given to the art and it was respected widely beyond NY, someone raised their eyebrow and said hmmm this can sell, that's money, a label could exploit this art for what it was, as soon as the masses consumed it, which in turn made many of the labels mega rich, not megadeth...i say again so many labels got fat off of hip hop in the 90's....and once again many labels are lining their pocket off of it again mostly Southern Artists this time around.

I always look at the LL Cool J video, I'm bad, its a classic example of how the artist from the street got paraded around in the label office and he gets pimped.

But back to the point, if you look at icons from the 90's, Biggie and Pac...these two artist set the stage for what came afterwards...North or South or West....THUG LIFE.... we talking gangsta and waving 44's.

Potholes in my lawn ala Tribe, and Jungle brothers were left in the dust after this...there would be no room for real hip hop or real creativity using wax and scratches on a large scale again commercially except for the mid to late 90's with common's success.

I think that anyone in the range of say 29-40 probably was around to actually enjoy and relate to the type of hip hop Melle Mel is probably referring to, and probably were responsible for contributing to the sales and success of that music.

Basically like Holmz said, it's all about gimmicks and sales, the only way things will change is not because of the labels, it will be because some artist along with clever PRODUCERS is able to create something else that is different and has a humongous, unanimous fanbase and the labels buy into it....So many Times people overlook Timbo and the Neptunes from Right here in VA that is the SOUTH TOO!!! they did their own thing and look...around the same time as Master P & Outkast.

The thing i gather most from this article is DO YOU, but if you do you, you had better be aware that at some point not unless you are making CLASSICS, people will eventually grow tired of your music and your STYLE unless you continue to innovate and build fans that agree with it as HOT and MARKETABLE.
 

slik da relic

RS Jedi
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 1
Mel is a cool dude, and bein that im from his era, i can agree to most of what he said... lyrical skill took center stage in the tri state area, mainly NY and NJ... makin a person listen to how u flip ur words and make u rewind the tape was, and still is enjoyable... but u also had a broader spectrum of Emcees that came with all different styles... when the West Coast got involved lyrics were more straightforward, fukk all that subliminal bs. but, somewhere down the line between the West coast and the South, lyrics became VERY simplistic, and the beat became the frontrunner of the song... as long as the beat is phat, the kids dont give shit what ur sayin... no reason to say complex shit anymore, which is why everyone thinks they can rap now... "YOU sit at home with a pen and a pad, going mad, sad, glad, dad" KRS said this and it rings very tru today... dont hafta read any books these days to rap... knowledge has been stripped from the lyrics, and the beat is king. NYers still come out lyrical, but u can get away with little or nothing now... once the beat and the hook is good, basically, ur good... sex appeal also is a factor these days, but age, as Common has recently showed, is just a number.

da relic
 

dahkter

Ill Muzikoligist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 4
Hip Hop is party music, first and foremost. I don't wanna get too elitist and say all of this commercial hip hop is garbage. So it's not so surprising that this party music is what's dominating right now. Part is fault of the radio stations, but you also have to blame the public, they like catchy simple shit.

Regarding Melle Mel's post, I'm originally from Philly, and been in the NY area since 96. NY hip hop is in trouble right now, and it's the fault of the radio stations. NY "Hip Hop" radio does not play NY hip hop, they play Southern Hip Hop and Mainstream R&B. I got nothing against either, however a big part of this East Coast hip hop culture was hearing groups from your city tearin shit up. I honestly really miss hearing local cats on the radio.
 

Ash Holmz

The Bed-Stuy Fly Guy
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 207
the game is so suspect right now then when somebody puts out AN OK album the shits a considered a classic ... lol ..... people were callin bustas last album a classic ..HA! .. hardly, ... a good album? .. yes .. classic? not even close... Game's last album niggas was sayin the same thing.. please lol ..... again not even close .... the mainstream of today has become so watered down and whack that when somebody comes out with something "decent" it gets thrown into this whole other catergory of greatness lol.... and Lil wayne is all of the sudden the GOAT... HAHA!! lmao ..... wayne would get buried alive ten years ago but its just a diffrent day in age and what would should be considered "a hot flow" (which ill def give him that, his flow is hot) is all of sudden "the best ever, or the best of our generation" WWWWOW..... lol... he doesnt even try to hide the fact that he tried to clone jay ...


ona side note ....i was listening alot of that golden era music yesterday.. i truly have to just big up the whole cuban linx,ironman,liquid swords, era of the clans movement... those three albums are seriously on some shit lyrically, i mean really though... WOW ... just had to bring it back and refresh niggas on those albums in case yawl forgot .. go listen .. the shit is just as relevant, and maybe even more relevenat today than when it was released.
 
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