Lyricism: who's to blame?

[GitLikeTek]

I caught this vid () for a show on Music Choice where they talk about the lost art of lyricism in mainstream hip-hop. Naughty by Nature's gonna be on it, and I heard Vinny blames NWA for starting a trend of watered-down lyrics, which is crazy to me to go after Dre and Cube like that. Most of my friends say the south killed everything that was good about hip-hop.

 

[dacalion]

Blaming NWA is really blaming the whole westside flow at that time. But personally I can't really blame any genre of music. Dirty South music just started clicking, and people wanted something different (not to mention that eastcoast rap had fallen so much in terms of content). I hate DS music but I can't blame them for wanting a piece of the pie or for the fall of hip hop. To me the blame lies on fake, so called "heads" that were really riding the mainstream bandwagon.

 

[2GooD Productions]

To me the blame lies on fake, so called "heads" that were really riding the mainstream bandwagon.

I have to agree with that. I also blame the fans that made watered down lyrics profitable, which made the labels put more of the same shit out. I think the fall started with Puff Daddy, continued with 50 Cent and then finally the south took it even further, but ultmately the blame lies with the fans, IMO. Simply for buying into that shit in the first place, making the labels putout more of it.
Low quality music and lyrics are cheaper and easier to produce, when everything follows the same set criteria and formula then you can churn out the money making music at a much faster and cheaper rate increasing the return on investment. The downside is that it saturates the market with bollocks, lowers expectations and the quality control falls out of the market. Eventually the genre becomes stale and dies out as the artistry and originality dies with it.

 

[Knox Raw]

I seriously believe once the "ICE AGE" and the expensive videos came into the picture the lyricist was lost from that point on. Around 1997 was the beginning of the end for the "mainstream" lyricist. Don't get me wrong you had a couple cats doing the platinum chains and european cars but, it was way more subtle before 1997. When Special Ed did "I Got it Made" we knew he was just on some bullshit but, IT WAS CLEVER. When Slick Rick used to don Minks and Chinchillas in his videos we knew it wasn't his because the shit was too little but, IT WAS CLEVER. Ghost and Rae, BIG, JayZ hell even Grand Puba talked that money and flossing shit but, it was so much more CLEVER than what everyone else was doing. Even Diddy and his looping ass was on that flossing shit but he kept DOPE lyricist around him. So, when Diddy chopped the top off a BENTLEY he had someone to write some dope shit about it so he could spit it. When Cash Money made "Bling Bling" it was clever but, it was a formula. Every video from then on was Platinum and Ice, Gold and Platinum fronts, 100k cars, and a big ass house. Cat's didn't have to rap because the video said everything for them. Fuck what you saying because the visual sold the song. If the beat bang and it looks good then its a hit. I love Missy Elliot to death but, she is not a "rapper" per se. Missy has made a living off dope beats and eye popping videos. That's not taking anything from her as a talent but, she's found her niche. Busta is one of my favorite MC's but, he went the same route as Missy if you ask me. The thing that separates these artist from the artist of today is THEY ARE CLEVER. How many times have you heard a mixtape in the past 5 years and it sounds like 1 long song or, how many times have you watched a video in the past 5 years and though "Didn't I just see this shit?" It's all a formula to sell dreams to people who will never get the material things these rappers rap about. If "ICE" sells then talk about "ICE" and throw that shit in a video. That's the mindset of these "rappers" today. So Just like "Video Killed the Radio Star" ©Buggles it also killed the "mainstream" lyricist (along with the "ICE AGE"). We the lyricist still exist we just have to go back to the grassroots to be heard. Fuck the Mainstream!!

 

[UNORTHODOX]

I seriously believe once the "ICE AGE" and the expensive videos came into the picture the lyricist was lost from that point on. Around 1997 was the beginning of the end for the "mainstream" lyricist.

I think this is a strong point. The focus shifted from lyrics to visuals. Which makes sense, america doesnt like to think, but we LOVE tv and visuals. We like simplifying things to the most common denominators to the point of saturation and overextension. aka, we're lazy, and so did our culture evolve to comfort this laziness.

 

[Relic]

Muh fuckin RIGHT! LOL

I seriously believe once the "ICE AGE" and the expensive videos came into the picture the lyricist was lost from that point on. Around 1997 was the beginning of the end for the "mainstream" lyricist. Don't get me wrong you had a couple cats doing the platinum chains and european cars but, it was way more subtle before 1997. When Special Ed did "I Got it Made" we knew he was just on some bullshit but, IT WAS CLEVER. When Slick Rick used to don Minks and Chinchillas in his videos we knew it wasn't his because the shit was too little but, IT WAS CLEVER. Ghost and Rae, BIG, JayZ hell even Grand Puba talked that money and flossing shit but, it was so much more CLEVER than what everyone else was doing. Even Diddy and his looping ass was on that flossing shit but he kept DOPE lyricist around him. So, when Diddy chopped the top off a BENTLEY he had someone to write some dope shit about it so he could spit it. When Cash Money made "Bling Bling" it was clever but, it was a formula. Every video from then on was Platinum and Ice, Gold and Platinum fronts, 100k cars, and a big ass house. Cat's didn't have to rap because the video said everything for them. Fuck what you saying because the visual sold the song. If the beat bang and it looks good then its a hit. I love Missy Elliot to death but, she is not a "rapper" per se. Missy has made a living off dope beats and eye popping videos. That's not taking anything from her as a talent but, she's found her niche. Busta is one of my favorite MC's but, he went the same route as Missy if you ask me. The thing that separates these artist from the artist of today is THEY ARE CLEVER. How many times have you heard a mixtape in the past 5 years and it sounds like 1 long song or, how many times have you watched a video in the past 5 years and though "Didn't I just see this shit?" It's all a formula to sell dreams to people who will never get the material things these rappers rap about. If "ICE" sells then talk about "ICE" and throw that shit in a video. That's the mindset of these "rappers" today. So Just like "Video Killed the Radio Star" ©Buggles it also killed the "mainstream" lyricist (along with the "ICE AGE"). We the lyricist still exist we just have to go back to the grassroots to be heard. Fuck the Mainstream!!

 

[Sucio]

These songs could never be so relevant....

Ace hood said it in the snippet...down south rappers rely on swag, not lyrics......The Bass movement from the 80s-90s out here is still the movement, still the 808s and the booming bass....now swag has replaced the artists...the tempo has moved from 90-100 to 70-80. The BPM I feel has a lot to do with the lyrics going downhill. But because of that, hip-hop has never been bigger....the dumbed down lyrics are appealing to a broader spectrum of listeners...

 

[dacalion]

hahaha, what a revelation! @ :34 secs of the top video, dude says... "They took the credit for your second simple needs, rewritten by MASCHINE on new technology and now I understand the problems you concede..." Native Instruments may owe this guy some $$$.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I seriously believe once the "ICE AGE" and the expensive videos came into the picture the lyricist was lost from that point on. Around 1997 was the beginning of the end for the "mainstream" lyricist. Don't get me wrong you had a couple cats doing the platinum chains and european cars but, it was way more subtle before 1997. When Special Ed did "I Got it Made" we knew he was just on some bullshit but, IT WAS CLEVER. When Slick Rick used to don Minks and Chinchillas in his videos we knew it wasn't his because the shit was too little but, IT WAS CLEVER. Ghost and Rae, BIG, JayZ hell even Grand Puba talked that money and flossing shit but, it was so much more CLEVER than what everyone else was doing. Even Diddy and his looping ass was on that flossing shit but he kept DOPE lyricist around him. So, when Diddy chopped the top off a BENTLEY he had someone to write some dope shit about it so he could spit it. When Cash Money made "Bling Bling" it was clever but, it was a formula. Every video from then on was Platinum and Ice, Gold and Platinum fronts, 100k cars, and a big ass house. Cat's didn't have to rap because the video said everything for them. Fuck what you saying because the visual sold the song. If the beat bang and it looks good then its a hit. I love Missy Elliot to death but, she is not a "rapper" per se. Missy has made a living off dope beats and eye popping videos. That's not taking anything from her as a talent but, she's found her niche. Busta is one of my favorite MC's but, he went the same route as Missy if you ask me. The thing that separates these artist from the artist of today is THEY ARE CLEVER. How many times have you heard a mixtape in the past 5 years and it sounds like 1 long song or, how many times have you watched a video in the past 5 years and though "Didn't I just see this shit?" It's all a formula to sell dreams to people who will never get the material things these rappers rap about. If "ICE" sells then talk about "ICE" and throw that shit in a video. That's the mindset of these "rappers" today. So Just like "Video Killed the Radio Star" ©Buggles it also killed the "mainstream" lyricist (along with the "ICE AGE"). We the lyricist still exist we just have to go back to the grassroots to be heard. Fuck the Mainstream!!

Amen!!

 

[LouBez]

You guys got it ALLLLLLL fucked up...lyrics didn't go anywhere...the art form has yet to peak. Lyric driven hip hop just isn't what makes this new generation head nod...

 

[Knox Raw]

You guys got it ALLLLLLL fucked up...lyrics didn't go anywhere...the art form has yet to peak. Lyric driven hip hop just isn't what makes this new generation head nod...

Lou, you're right but, the op just wanted to know why lyricist arent on top of the food chain like they used to be. Who do you really blame. While I never knock the next man's hustle, I personally am tired of the monotony in Mainstream Rap. I fucks with Jeezy but, when a man says "I'm not a rapper, I'm a trapper" that sends a message that "anybody" can come on and so this shit. Hes basically saying " Fuck what I'm saying just look at what I do". Kids hear this and think its the "right way". Cats aren't serious about the craft they're just looking for that quick buck. Shit like that devalues the artform. Where's the ownership now? We don't even own our art anymore because were selling it out. While the whole music industry is suffering rap is suffering the most monetary wise. We have the cheapest product available because we let it go for cheap. All that shit goes hand and hand its the trickle down effect. My generation dropped the ball when it came to teaching these kids how to rap and push the art of the MC foward. Don't mean to rant and run alongjust a sensitive subject with me. LOL

 

[2GooD Productions]

You guys got it ALLLLLLL fucked up...lyrics didn't go anywhere...the art form has yet to peak. Lyric driven hip hop just isn't what makes this new generation head nod...

Personally I think its the beats that always got the heads nodding, but at the same time there used to be certain rules in hiphop, like dont bite, be original, have fun or tell a story with a message/moral etc, just some real substance to go over the head nodder beat. It really did require a certain level of skill, the bar was set high and it stayed high for a pretty long time. But to be honest I think it got to the point were almost everything had been done, it became harder to innovate and take the bar higher, so eventually it started to drop. Hip hop went from underground and then mainstream during the MTV generation, it got milked for all it was worth, and now all thats left its blatantly commercialised, except for maybe a few old heads trying to keep that "REAL HIPHOP" spirit alive, but to be honest I think that will just stay in the underground from whence it came until maybe one day that sort of thing becomes more profitable again, at which point we will hear more of it making the airwaves. I wouldnt hold my breath for that day, it may never happen, because like I said, its been done, its really hard to find an original niche anymore.

 

[Sucio]

You know......

Some artists don't want their music to just be heard by "hip-hop heads" because you don't make that money from only hip-hop heads.... You want your music on the radio..you want your music in the clubs, you want your music to be heard through every outlet possible....because that equals money.

Hip-hop isn't a 25 year career that you could just retire from... The artists need to make as much money in a short period of time so they can be financially stable for a long time... That's why it is where it is today... The game in the past 10 years became too saturated to support an artist for an extended period of time unless they are truly special talents.....like Eminem, Luda, even T.I. to name a couple.... Just think of how many names came and gone since then? How many of them aren't making any $ these days? Just look @ Lil Jon...he lost pretty much everything and then you saw him on celebrity apprentice....... These people disappear into relative obscurity...

Ask me if I would go "commercial" and "sell out" I'd be first in line... Call me a part of the problem...I call it an opportunity to do music for a living.

 

[2GooD Productions]

Ask me if I would go "commercial" and "sell out" I'd be first in line... Call me a part of the problem...I call it an opportunity to do music for a living.

The video you posted "EPMD - The Crossover" Sums it up perfectly.
Theres even a line in the song "Ive never seen a well paid rapper" Or something along those lines, I saw it yesterday and cant remember the line, lol. There are well paid pop stars, but not well paid rappers.
Being a flash in the pan and getting that dough for a short amount of time hardly equals a career IMO. We all want to be heard, ultimately I think thats what drives the dedication for years honing our craft, artists have the biggest ego's, we are all guilty of that. I think to make a career out of this music thing we have to expand our horizons and make money from other avenues, like films, tv and commercials etc.
It all depends on if you can merge business ability with the artistry. They dont always go hand in hand. If you want to go pop and make hits, I have no problem with that, I only have a problem with people that say one thing and do another, that ultimately to me is selling out. If people wanna be pop producers and make hits and get that dough while they can, I dont care, all good for them, good luck to them.
As long as they dont claim the street and the hood while they do it, thats hypocrisy.