LOUDNESS

[crog85]

I need help... How do u guys get your beats up to the proper volume level without any distortion or clipping?

I've read to start by keeping the levels of your tracks at zero or below, but I run into the problem of not being able to turn some sounds down low enough to mix with other sounds when the loudest sound is at zero... If that makes sense...

When I try to get more volume from a compressor/limiter I end up with clipping, usually on kick drum and it loses its punch...

It's just frustrating b/c u spend time making a beat, and it sounds really good playing from the DAW (but u gotta turn it up louder than usual) but when I mix everything down it's either distorted, has clipping, or just isn't LOUD enough!!!

Please give me some tips/advice that might be able to help... Please...

 

[Bugsy]

Which DAW are you using?

I use Ableton for mixing, it should show that when an Audio Signal is Clipping it reaches that Red mark from Green.

Now for your other problem, you are going to need to learn how to use the Equalizer (High Pass Filter and Low Pass Filter etc..) and the Compressor, as well as how to Sidechain. Also dont forget to use a Spectrum Analyzer on your Master.

(It sounds complicated I know, but its easy once you start making a habit out it.)

To make it really simple, there are 3 sides of the Spectrum which are called Frequencies. (The Low, Middle and High)

The Low - is supposedly responsible for the Bass sounds.

The Middle - is responsible for the Melody and Snares.

The High - is responsible for the Hi Hats and Cymbals.

What happens is, Frequencies are trying to stand out, so if all sounds/instruments/samples are concentrated towards the High, chances are you wont hear your Bass/808. The same goes for when your sounds are concentrated to your Low end, You wont be able to hear your Hi Hats or sound muddy.

Later on you would learn that there are more sides to the spectrum,
The Low-Mid Range and The High Mid Range). But for now stick to what is simple and pretty soon you'll learn these naturally.

So what you would want to do is give each instrument their own space in the spectrum for their frequencies to move freely.

For Example:

Boomy Bass + Punchy Kick = No UMPH Bass sound.

What you would want to do is:

Boomy Bass (EQ Low Pass Filter) +(Sidechain) Punchy Kick (EQ High Pass Filter) = A BANGIN BEAT!


Some topics you might want to read on as well would be:

LOW END THEORY
BASIC MIXING AND MASTERING
SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM

 

[Fade]

I understand what you're saying because a lot of times my beat sounds great but when I mix the shit is really low. What I usually do first of all is try to make sure that my entire mix is level. So that means nothing goes into the red. At that point I won't have too much (maybe something like the snare) going a bit louder when you look at the waveform.

Then, of course, when I load the file I look at it and make sure that I don't go past the highest point (snare, for example), or else I'll go into the red. If I have to, then I'll go back into my DAW and mix it again (usually I don't have to), but I always keep an eye on the master channel, and even when I load the mix into something like Adobe Audition, I make sure I'm not in the red.

For some, their mixes are really hot, and I see that a lot. If that's what you really want, then I would suggest @Sucio and @hardboiled chime in on this one! I see your mixes and the shit's always full blast! Tell us your secrets (compression I'm assuming?).

 

[Jarrell]

I usually use the EQ Everthing Under -6db them Gain makeup

 

[Bugsy]

Haha I might have gone a bit overboard with this one, Hopefully that did help. Would love to see what @Sucio and @hardboiled do with their mixes.
@djfeedme too has great mixes.

 

[MaseedProd]

Bugsy is correct, a spectrum analyzer will tell you what your mix is doing and where your LF, LMF, MF, and HF lies in your mix. The idea behind the spectrum analyzer is to 1st identify the frequencies where drums, 808s, basses, keys, guitars, synths, voices, ect sit in the EQ spectrum. Keep in mind, you have to start out with a good mix in the 1st place. Mastering cannot fix a bad mix, it will only high light the deficiencies in it. But say you have a good mix, then by adding compression, EQ, saturation, stereo spread and limiting, you can in theory achieve loudness without sacrificing dynamics, punch, color or getting distortion.

 

[crog85]

This is some great info!!! I understand about the different frequency ranges... I feel like I mix all the sounds together pretty well, but I think my main problem is mixing everything too loud before I start doing any mastering... b/c like I said, everything sounds good playing through the DAW, its just when I mix everything down to mp3 is where I find that volume is too low, then Ill go back in to do some "mastering" and then I have a louder mix, but it will be distorted and you can hear that its overly compressed...

I use an EQ that has a spectrum analyzer to see what the mix is doing... but can't always get it to do what I want it to do. I don't have any fancy plugins or hardware, so I know my beats won't ever sound "professional" I really only make beats for fun, but I do spend a lot of time creating them, so I would at least like to get the best sound I can.

When EQing everything to fit in these different frequency ranges... Do you EQ hard, or just slightly? Ive read that some people double up on EQs for some tracks, but I've also read that some use just a lil EQ to nudge things into a certain frequency range... Also do you use EQ for eliminating the unwanted frequencies or do you use a filter for this? Like for a kick drum, would you get rid of the high end with EQ or low pass filter?

I would also like to know what @hardboiled does with his mixes... They are rather LOUD, but they still seem to capture dynamics, and they sound much more energetic...

 

[crog85]

Also wondering... Do you use different software for mixing / mastering than the software you use for creating the beat?

 

[thedreampolice]

I use Reason for most of my music making and I have mastered in it. I do LOVE mixing in it as well.

For example I mixed and mastered this in Reason



But these days I use Studio One for mastering and its just amazing for that kind of work. Proper mastering is an art in itself and takes quite a while to learn. Read this book on mastering


and this one


Both have been huge helps in my journey.

But I would learn to mix first, like really study it. There is soooo much to learn and I learn more almost daily and I have been mixing over a 15 years now. The two biggest game changing things about mixing for me was learning about high pass filters, watch this video. It is Reason specific but the knowledge applies to any DAW



The second mix trick that changed the game for me was LCR mixing. I learned that from this book


its fantastic and you should get it. I would say that if you expect to add vocals to your beat later you do NOT want to master it. That would be just no good as you will have to master it again anyway.

Lets us know how it goes!

 

[MaseedProd]

The main thing that many producers fail to do in the mix is to perform "gain staging". In most cases, as you're producing the beat, you have all your levels just below clipping simply so that you can hear all the instrumentation. The thing you have to remember is that all these compressors, EQs, gates, limiters, exciters,ect need "head room" to properly apply their effects. Your stereo mix before mastering should be -3 to -5 dbs. In other words, every single track should be "in the green" at it's peak levels.

Your pre-mastered mix should be low in volume. You can turn up your master fader to hear what you are doing but when you bounce down, make sure the master fader is at 0 (unity) and that the individual tracks are all -3 to -5 db. Once you run that mix through your mastering rig, you should be able to hear a change in the sound without even adding any EQ, compression, ect, now you got the head room you need to really boost up the levels.

 

[MaseedProd]

Very good tips bro...your mix in this video sounds well balanced, dynamic and has some punch. The volume of most commercial (urban/electronica) music isn't quite there but that's when you get into the "Loudness Wars" debate. Personally, I don't like the loudness that you hear in most of today's music. I feel that a lot of it sounds compressed to death, nor does it have the depth and characteristics that I like to hear in "old school" mixing. It's just loud and most consumers perceive loud as "better" therefore I have to play that game. I'm still trying to achieve those extremely high volume levels without totally distorting my mix.
Here's a mix I did, I think it's a good mix overall and it is loud but it's not as loud as say a track by an artist like Future, Drake, Skrillex, ect.:
https://soundcloud.com/tray-nova

Now keep in mind that they do have access to very high end equipment to achieve such a sound but I think it's more about skill than gear so I still have room for improvement.

 

[thedreampolice]

Thank you! And yes they wanted the song to breath so I didn't smash it as hard as I could. and I completely agree with your gain staging tips, that is hugely important! I will listen to your track later today.

 

[crog85]

I've been experimenting with some things, and I'm wondering... Are there any problems I could run into if I'm mixing things at a much lower volume than normal?

I'm working on a beat for the sample flip section, and got the idea to leave the sample at 0, and mix all other sounds around it... The result was an extremely low mix... I had the volume on my audio interface maxed out while making the beat just to hear it lol. I was then planning to run the master track through a peak limiter, among a few other things to boost the volume...

I don't have any fancy software or plug-ins for mixing/mastering, and I do everything within a pretty old version of Garageband. I will eventually invest in some new equipment... Maybe when I get my tax return, but this is what I have to work with as of now.

I know I can get some decent sounding music out of what I have... I've done it before, mostly by accident! lol
Just trying to figure out how to do it consistently...

 

[thedreampolice]

Mixing a low volume is preferred actually, you don't fry your ears, everything sounds good loud anyway so it's not always the best way to mix. Just gain stage correctly and you should be good to go.

 

[JP hardboiled]

I don't really like using compressors because they really do shape transients and tonality of sounds from what they were so I tend to actually not use compressors that much. Alot of it is getting levels hot, I don't like having mixes at lower levels.

Here's the trade off if you brick wall compress/limit/volume your stuff sounds VERY mono and in your face, which is my style overall.

If you don't mix with high levels then you do a VERY stereo mix with more dynamics, which is cool too. I've actually tamed how I mix down a lot so now I aim for in between this style and my old loud mixing style.

Also if you think about comparing the 2 styles think about old school rock tracks, they sound very atmospheric and there are ALOT of dynamics and volume changes in instruments/vocals VS EDM/DUBSTEP where alot of it is very hot level mixing.

The performance flamenco guitarist in me whose played alot of restaurants, shows, and clubs would pick the more stereo type of mixing because it reflects MUSICALITY with having alot of dynamics, which of course live performances and REAL musicians in general have the ability to play with while keeping rhythm. BUT as a DJ, producer, and artist I prefer in your face music and mixing so that overrides low level mixing. Although I do think musicianship is vital and in fact MISSING from MOST music nowadays, which is why music comes and goes now, I just like loud music because it captures my own emotions better. So take your pick as an ARTIST. There's really no one way to do it.

 

[Bugsy]

I don't really like using compressors because they really do shape transients and tonality of sounds from what they were so I tend to actually not use compressors that much. Alot of it is getting levels hot, I don't like having mixes at lower levels.

Here's the trade off if you brick wall compress/limit/volume your stuff sounds VERY mono and in your face, which is my style overall.

If you don't mix with high levels then you do a VERY stereo mix with more dynamics, which is cool too. I've actually tamed how I mix down a lot so now I aim for in between this style and my old loud mixing style.

Also if you think about comparing the 2 styles think about old school rock tracks, they sound very atmospheric and there are ALOT of dynamics and volume changes in instruments/vocals VS EDM/DUBSTEP where alot of it is very hot level mixing.

The performance flamenco guitarist in me whose played alot of restaurants, shows, and clubs would pick the more stereo type of mixing because it reflects MUSICALITY with having alot of dynamics, which of course live performances and REAL musicians in general have the ability to play with while keeping rhythm. BUT as a DJ, producer, and artist I prefer in your face music and mixing so that overrides low level mixing. Although I do think musicianship is vital and in fact MISSING from MOST music nowadays, which is why music comes and goes now, I just like loud music because it captures my own emotions better. So take your pick as an ARTIST. There's really no one way to do it.

Thats really interesting, Ive always heard and followed the opposite.
So how do you control distortions with high levels or do you stop at the highest level before it distorts? Any effects you use?

It would be great if you could tell us more. Havent heard this style before!

 

[MaseedProd]

@hardboiled - Basically, the loudness war comes down to 2 key factors, both of which are in opposition of each other. Loud, in your face, less linear mixes, or dynamic, more transient, lower volume mixes. If I had my choice, I'd opt for 60% loud and 40% dynamic. However, the music industry has changed the standard of music quality. Everything has to be created with the consideration of file size for faster transmission speeds over the internet therefore, compression is something that was imposed on music as a result. That and the fact that terrestrial and Satellite radio compresses the hell out of music as well. My clients want their mixes loud and clean as possible with cleanliness taking a back seat to loudness. The loud war wins 9 X out of 10...I surrendered and do whatever I have to do to get my mixes loud while preserving as much of the cleanliness as possible.

 

[JP hardboiled]

Thats really interesting, Ive always heard and followed the opposite.
So how do you control distortions with high levels or do you stop at the highest level before it distorts? Any effects you use?

It would be great if you could tell us more. Havent heard this style before!

Most drums we get as samples have already been compressed so compressing em more seems to flatten them to me and mess up attack. Sometimes I add some compression with Fabfilter Pro C2, but more often than not I don't use compression.

I will still however add saturation and distortion on drums using all types from Fabfilter Saturn, Camel phat, Ohmicide, Izotope Trash, SPL Vitalizer, Soundtoys Decapitator. I won't let the levels go past peaking when they've already been distorted.

 

[MaseedProd]

Most drums we get as samples have already been compressed so compressing em more seems to flatten them to me and mess up attack. Sometimes I add some compression with Fabfilter Pro C2, but more often than not I don't use compression.

I will still however add saturation and distortion on drums using all types from Fabfilter Saturn, Camel phat, Ohmicide, Izotope Trash, SPL Vitalizer, Soundtoys Decapitator. I won't let the levels go past peaking when they've already been distorted.

You are correct about the drums sounds we use, they usually are already compressed and have processing but you have to understand what you're doing when you are compressing. The whole idea is to get a particular sound to sit better in the overall mix. While the compression applied to an individual sound when it is solo'd may sound correct, when it is unsolo'd and added to the rest of the mix you may find that you need more or less. Also you have to understand that certain compreassors have their own characteristics that add color, warmth, and fatness. Point is, when mixing it's not just about the technicality of the process itself, u have to also be creative and artistic enough to understand the interpretation of the song and know how to convey and enhance that. Hence why a mixer engineer who specializes in rock will usually always fuck up a hip-hop mix.

 

[tieb]

Mannn, just soaking up all the game.