Lord Finesse vs Mac Miller Lawsuit

[Fade]

https://www.illmuzik.com/hiphop/articles/news/lord-finesse-suing-mac-miller/

Either answer there or here but what do you think?

 

[UNORTHODOX]

If this works, alot of artists new and old, from here to the 90s, could potentially go bankrupt. This'll be like aids for hiphop. Take a second and think about how many artists have used anothers beat early in their careers to gain some attention. Think about how many "freestyles" you've heard released in the last 20yrs, and how many people are connected to each of those beats on the business side. Labels are starving and this could be their next morsel to survive.

I said months ago how artists like ghostface are just now getting sued for stuff they release 20yrs ago and this is almost an evolution of that mindset

 

[skidflow]

see hip hop don't respect its elders...dude needs to pay up...bottom line. Finesse tried to reach out...no response was disrespectful. He must pay for what he used and pay to be punished also...its called punitive damages.

especially if Mac Miller is getting doe from the song...come on. Any of you guys would flip a script if you heard any replicable artist on your beat without permission. Especially an artist getting doe.

 

[lion-ucs]

From what I hear, thats just his MO

No reach back. Very Ducky-Dodgy

 

[2GooD Productions]

I saw the old video where he got confronted for jacking a beat, hes a bitch. I hope he does get sued a new arsehole.
Im glad its finesse on one hand and feel sorry for him having to go this route on the other.

 

[Pug]

Lord Finesse has been in the game longer than this guys been alive probably, so fuck him, I hope Finesse gets his money. Man has paid his dues ten fold.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Its kinda weird to see you guys say Mac should pay up when this is so prevalent and almost as big a mainstay of hiphop as sampling is. Does this mean no one should ever use someone elses beat ever? Miller only used the beat (LF claims the whole song) which was sampled, not composed, so I dont see how finesse has the right to sue, (He might have to pay the OG owners as well). Theres also claims that he didnt even clear the sample himself.

As for Miller making bank off of LFs work, Im curious as to why you guys would want to see that legal precedent set? Think of how many careers are/were launched off someone elses work in this business, Radio freestyles, mixtapes, random videos shot just freestyling, etc. I mean, how many classic freestyles are off others work? The Roc vs Ruff Ryders mixtapes? Any of the clue tapes? any classic Mixtape in the early 90s to now? All them should pay up as well? They gained off those freestyles and shows

 

[2GooD Productions]

Its kinda weird to see you guys say Mac should pay up when this is so prevalent and almost as big a mainstay of hiphop as sampling is. Does this mean no one should ever use someone elses beat ever?s

Not without permission no, is that too much to ask?
I think the issue here is not that he used finesse's beat, its that even when approached by finesse, he just ignored him. Leaving finesse with just the legal route left.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Not without permission no, is that too much to ask?
I think the issue here is not that he used finesse's beat, its that even when approached by finesse, he just ignored him. Leaving finesse with just the legal route left.

Since when did people ask to use someones beat??? In hiphops 40 years, when has anyone asked anyone to record a freestyle or loose 16 over their instrumental??

Have yall even heard Mms track? its like 20 something bars, no hook & not a peep of LFs voice on there. So an uknown/undergroud artist has to ask to spit a free and share it? Whether he knows its going to blow up on not?

 

[2GooD Productions]

Since the person started making money from your shit.
Isnt the bottom line about whether the person made money off of the beat?
I always thought mixtapes were free promo material, and in that sense then no, because they werent used to make money. But at some point it seemed that mixtapes became like albums and people made money from them. Now if someone is making money from your work then dont you want to get paid too?

Now if Mac had dealt with business when first approached by Finesse, then there would probably be no problem.
Im sorry but giving the old "we are making you relevant" line doesnt cut it, Finesse is a dj these days, and how does it make him relevant when he doesnt even get the credit for the beat? For the use of that line alone, Mac deserves to get sued.

The same rules for sampling apply, and yes people have been getting sued for uncleared samples for years, it never set any precedents that went back into time.
It also has nothing to do with finesses voice, its all about his beat.

If Mac never made any money from it then Finesse has no case at all, but if hes seeking $10m, then he really must think he has a case. Only time will tell.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Since the person started making money from your shit.
Isnt the bottom line about whether the person made money off of the beat?
I always thought mixtapes were free promo material, and in that sense then no, because they werent used to make money. But at some point it seemed that mixtapes became like albums and people made money from them. Now if someone is making money from your work then dont you want to get paid too?

Now if Mac had dealt with business when first approached by Finesse, then there would probably be no problem.

correct I do want to get paid, but the LEGAL PRECEDENT this sets can ruin so many established careers that all your favorite rappers can be sued 100,000 for one freestyle, does that truly make sense to you? To see so many people that have been stolen from by labels, lose what they do have because of a freestyle they recorded, or was recorded of them and they should lose it as well? That seems right to you?

No, Im not greedy enough to know my legal action can ruin so many other artists before me's future. They still gotta feed family off those residual sales and their performances still today, and for the courts to garnish those wages because of a lawsuit like this, would be negligent and irresponsible on my part

 

[2GooD Productions]

I just cant see what precedent is getting set? People will get sued for SELLING mixtapes.
Hasnt that always been illegal, hence the "For Promo Use Only, Not For Resale" tagline.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Exactly, this erases that "for promo use only". This says, if you gain fame from using that beat, and you make money from that fame you pay up. Thats what he's suing for. It gets tricky because any freestyle could add to an artists "fame" the way this added to Mm:

Jayz and Big Ls freestyle that vamped notoriety on the radio in the 90s, he should pay Millkbone right?
Any MC's radio freestyles
Any battle where beats were stolen of Jacked ala Ice Cube
Slaughterhouse on the BET cypher using the

The East Flatbush Project tried by 12 (being one of their 1st national televised appearances)​

Every youtube artist just looking to spit and share it w/friends they gotta pay up too??​

Take a second and think about all those artists this could affect. Theres thousand of 90's freestyles were others beats are used, all these people gotta cough up 100,000 for each?? really?

It aint even like sampling: where the band actually composed the track and got the copyrights done and they want money for actual use of their song. This is a sampled beat, if anything who ever LF sampled needs to be hollerin at mm

 

[Fade]

I think a big part of the problem is the whole "mixtape" thing. Whereas a "mixtape" used to be just that, now it's more or less just an album with random songs thrown on by the artist. In this case, this is what happened. He sold his "mixtape" and made money off of it. Finesse tried to settle with him and Miller ignored him, hence the lawsuit.

Just because it's the norm to rap over someone's beat for a "freestyle" doesn't mean it's right. Sure, most rappers have done this but basically LF is the first to step up and file a lawsuit, how is that wrong? It's no different than if LF was being sued for not clearing a sample, same thing, it's just people are throwing around the mixtape/freestyle excuse, that's the only difference.

 

[StressWon]

I been over this a billion times on FB. YOUTUBE! It has nothing to do really with the mixtape thing. Youtube is a booming business. I'm sure they made money off the mixtape as well. This is entirely different. Plus, fuck mixtapes. Mixtapes take the creativity away from making original music. And I hope this effects what these cats call a "freestyle" because it is not an actual freestyle. The game is so much more fake than what it was in the 90's and 00's.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

I think a big part of the problem is the whole "mixtape" thing. Whereas a "mixtape" used to be just that, now it's more or less just an album with random songs thrown on by the artist. In this case, this is what happened. He sold his "mixtape" and made money off of it. Finesse tried to settle with him and Miller ignored him, hence the lawsuit.

Just because it's the norm to rap over someone's beat for a "freestyle" doesn't mean it's right. Sure, most rappers have done this but basically LF is the first to step up and file a lawsuit, how is that wrong? It's no different than if LF was being sued for not clearing a sample, same thing, it's just people are throwing around the mixtape/freestyle excuse, that's the only difference.

Whats funny about this is, Ive read over both peoples arguments and I havent seen a mention of mixtape from anyone but you and 2G. The issue is the shows and tour he was able to do because of those mixtapes that were availble for free. Who here has paid for a mixtape in the last 10yrs???? lol (Dont answer, I will laugh at you if you have. Thats what the net is for)

LF might get sued for not clearing a sample, HE SAMPLED THE TRACK, he doesnt have the rights to the music. He cant sue for music he doesnt own lol.

btw, Miller tried to contact and finesse has been aware of the track for sometime. But, its all he say she say as far as if anyone actualy contacted any hence non of us were there

 

[skidflow]

Who here has paid for a mixtape in the last 10yrs????

LF might get sued for not clearing a sample, HE SAMPLED THE TRACK, he doesnt have the rights to the music. He cant sue for music he doesnt own lol.

I ve seen artist sell mix tapes (passed off sometimes as "new" Lps...some even say "buy my new MIXTAPE" at a shows and people do) and If LF has not cleared the sample...thats another problem of it on...but its the song "arrangement" imo I think thats in question. I mean take the sample and do what you want with it...if you mimic the "arrangement" track in question successfully i guess thats a plus for the beatmaker...but don't take my original recorded "arrangement" and just re-record it....then make doe off of it. I mean Im just speaking from the heart....I am by no means an entertainment lawyer. Im just stating what seems unethical.

 

[Fade]

Whats funny about this is, Ive read over both peoples arguments and I havent seen a mention of mixtape from anyone but you and 2G.

Read the article, it was on Miller's mixtape.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

I ve seen artist sell mix tapes (passed off sometimes as "new" Lps...some even say "buy my new MIXTAPE" at a shows and people do) and If LF has not cleared the sample...thats another problem of it on...but its the song "arrangement" imo I think thats in question. I mean take the sample and do what you want with it...if you mimic the "arrangement" track in question successfully i guess thats a plus for the beatmaker...but don't take my original recorded "arrangement" and just re-record it....then make doe off of it. I mean Im just speaking from the heart....I am by no means an entertainment lawyer. Im just stating what seems unethical.

Right and they're wrong for that. But should an arrangment justify a 10million$ lawsuit? and as I said I agree with the ethics, I'd want to be contacted and have my name on there; "Mac Miller - Lord finesse Hip 2 the Game freestyle" for instance, but its a dangerous road depending on how LF is describing a "taken song" like Mm left all LF's verses and hooks on their and blew up using his song and voice. We're gonna have to wait for LFs details to come out to know what the intricacies are, because the potential is staggering

Read the article, it was on Miller's mixtape.

Ok, and read LFs statements, read his twitter timeline, its not about the mixtape. He aint have beef with the tape nor mention it as the cause. Its about youtube ads and shows. Did anyone else do any research beyond the initial blog on another site about it?

Check the courthouse news statement and his twitter. Its about videos and show $$

Side note: How many people have you seen open their show with a freestyle on an industry beat?

 

[2GooD Productions]

Right and they're wrong for that. But should an arrangment justify a 10million$ lawsuit? and as I said I agree with the ethics, I'd want to be contacted and have my name on there; "Mac Miller - Lord finesse Hip 2 the Game freestyle" for instance, but its a dangerous road depending on how LF is describing a "taken song" like Mm left all LF's verses and hooks on their and blew up using his song and voice. We're gonna have to wait for LFs details to come out to know what the intricacies are, because the potential is staggering



Ok, and read LFs statements, read his twitter timeline, its not about the mixtape. He aint have beef with the tape nor mention it as the cause. Its about youtube ads and shows. Did anyone else do any research beyond the initial blog on another site about it?

Check the courthouse news statement and his twitter. Its about videos and show $$

Side note: How many people have you seen open their show with a freestyle on an industry beat?

I dont know why you keep mentioning LF's voice, it has nothing to do with the voice, its about the beat. A beat that LF no doubt had to pay to clear the samples for. He owns the rights of the instrumental like any other producer, unless he sold them, which didnt happen.