keyboard beats easier than sampling

[JPeg]

Madlib wants people to know that he has the ability to rock more hip-hop styles than you've already heard from him with his 805 crew of the Lootpack. "I can do all that like Southern style, Timbaland, Mannie Fresh - all that stuff. That's easier than sampling to me," he says.

I most definatley agree, ive tried both anyone care to discuss?

 

[afriquedeluxe]

i wudnt really say keyboard beatz is easier. im not really sure, 4 me dey like near da same level altho it takes mo work 2 get dat warm feel wit keyboard beatz. but samplin does provide a lot of ear trainin, like now am getin close 2 jus listenin 2 a sample n knowin wat key its in, so i can jus improvise quikly

 

[Freakwncy]

that's a totally lie... I bet i could make a beat and you couldnt tell me it if was sampled or played on the keyboard.... if you dont believe... ask me to....

 

[JPeg]

that's a totally lie... I bet i could make a beat and you couldnt tell me it if was sampled or played on the keyboard.... if you dont believe... ask me to....


^^I neva said that sample based music sounded better than keyboard beats i siad the process of making a keyboard beats is quicker and easier than finding and flipping a sample

 

[MarkN]

i don't agree with that to be honest with a keyboard beat you need to create something first and then figure out how to use it in a song, with sampling you need to find the sample then you can go about using it in the track ! i don't think any style is easier than any other !
i say lets hear madlib knock out some timbaland style tracks then decide !

 

[mercurywaters]

yeah. the work is different. you SHOULD have to find and chop and cleanup samples. with keyboards you SHOULD have to build melodies, harmonies and make it sound warm. not everyone does that with either style. i understand what madlib syays to some extent though. alot commercial producers use formulas when they make beats. same drums with just a little change in melody and tempo to fit the song.

 

[inrctyhoodmusic]

that's bullshit and if he can do what tim fresh and company are doing wy isn't he making money like them......that sounds like a jealous statement
if it's so easy then he wouldn't be a sample producer only

 

[mrjermaine]

I've tried both and think it depends on your approach. If you get a sample, chop it up, rearrange it, put your own drums behind it (which is sampled chops as well), it takes skill and more work to go through old records, cds, tapes, whatever, having that keen ear, and making sure everything blends good. It kind of reminds me of when I used to dj: blending beats and scratching n stuff. Sampling is more fun to me. As for keyboard beats, I would say that its basically rendering a melody you may have in your head and laying it down. I find it can be really easy but also hard if you have a creative block (writers block). With samples, the inspiration comes quicker and its much more plentiful. All in all, I think it's dead even on this debate. It takes just as much talent to sample as it does to make keyboard beats.

 

[Freakwncy]

sorry i misunderstood you JPeg...

 

[Formant024]

Me thinx it all bs, how can you exclude either one of them techniques when you're into electronic music or hiphop. Both can be quite demanding in terms of writing scores and arrangements and for both goes that the sound means everything.

In terms of sampling, a phrase can contain a score you intend to use, or you write a score based on a fragment of a sample which you handle as an instrument, instead of loop. You can consider it as being relativly easy to produce since in either form it was the sound that appealed to yo and made you use it, not much need for editing the sound itself ( if that's what you go for ). The other side is originality, thus investing time to make sample libraries and your approach as how to use them samples in a score. I also think, that in case of a good source for samples, you do not need to edit/master a lot around a track, considering the sampled recording has wennt through mastering already.

" keyboard beats " ( I have to be honest, I never liked the name ) to the criteria Afrique mentioned, is performance driven, in that all scores n sound come through by your editing because they're clean. The fact that midi scores tend to sound less warm is simply because of the instrument you're using. In no offense will a Triton sound as good as a b3 with rotary cabinet since there is no a rotary speaker in your setup ( the b3 sample sound better and warmer, hence it being the original b3 and don't forget the mic to record a rotary ).

All in all, to achieve a good natural warm sounding midi score/composition ( keyboard beat ) you'll depend on a lot more as oppossed to sampling. You define the sphere instead of a sample and to my opinion, it's what instrument you choose and how to process the signal through which piece of external gear that determines how well the sphere is going to come out or whatever purpose you're trying to achieve.

In that you need to know 2 things,

1. What make n model would give you the sound you want to hear.
2. How well can you composit a score, but that being rather relatif.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Look I think that to really be creative you can use both a keyboard and samples from vinyl.......or better yet if you have keyboard that resamples......do you know what you can do with that????? you can make you your own riff or melody then take it and chop it or spread it across the keyboard, then use some drum samples snatched from Vinyl and get the same effect as if you sample the riff from vinyl.....you gotta know how to use the tools you have.....I think what a lot of the debate comes from is that BACK in the original days of HIP HOP production or in the 90's they wouldn't really use a keyboard because a sampler was way ahead of any keyboard for arranging making hip hop beats based upon samples and the sounds on boards then weren't really that usable.....it was only until recently that keyboards have the potential to be more powerful for production they have better sounds and they have advanced sequencers..........I think that we as producers should look at the tools we have today and how we can add to or enhance existing styles and at the same time innovate and create new styles......those guys like Primo and Pete Rock were innovating and working with existing tools they had.....here is the chance to move with the 21st century production and create with all available tools but find ways to make the shidd hot and not wack......

 

[Kevin A]

It is the mind that wheels the machine that makes the difference. If you understand this concept you are ahead of your average everyday person who is saying "i make beats"

Theories of methods should be battled out, prove you can say what your saying. I myself am living proof of the theory I use.

Sampling like I said before is a sensitive topic because it is one word that means one thing, that is used in very and many different ways. So the question would be, is there any honor in the way you sample. That's for the analytical people that like to act like they don't know what you mean when you talk about a person that's cutting bars out of songs. Pick a type of sampling, name it, then talk about it. everyone gets a better understanding like this. Final thought, I have the ability to make good music without the need of another artists material, And the ability to use all these resources if I will.

out

 

[JPeg]

"that's bullshit and if he can do what tim fresh and company are doing wy isn't he making money like them......that sounds like a jealous statement
if it's so easy then he wouldn't be a sample producer only"

yo

1)madlib does use synths, vibes, fender rhodes and other live instruments in his productions.

2)maybe he dont do that much of that type of music cause he finds it less challenging or maybe cos he thinks it sounds wack

I think its good to combine all elements of modern technology to make music, why limit urself to just using keyboard presets or just sampling?

I also think alot of self righteous "i dont use samples its all original" types r angry cos that keyboard shit is hella simple but they wanna believe that by using a keyboard they are better musicians

 

[Formant024]

Vintage technology, Modern signal processing.

There, I said it.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Formant what you said is right....the whole reason why people sample is not only does it sound good is that..........you are borrowing the musician and his countless hours to perfect the riff ro composition, you are borrowing the writer......you are borrowing all of the multimillion dollar studio equipment and time that went into recording it.....and you are borrowing the brilliant REAL ANALOG living engineer that got the mix perfect for you......oops did I say borrow that might be the wrong word....but in order to simulate the sound like you using the B3 and the TRiton as examples you also have to recreate the exact or close fx and processing that went into shaping the sound as it you hear it on the final WAX......you could go and sample a B3 yourself but....you will still have to recreate all of the processing and engineering with plugins to replicate how that B3 sounded on the FINAL wax.............no disrespect but sampling really trivializes REAL production and musicians that put that together.....arrangement probably is the number one asset to have as a sampling producer and a keyboard producer....

 

[Formant024]

Not to define myself as non-sampling moron, I like raping up good material into a mutation of " respectable recordings ". In that I mean, by not just cutting out the right loop 'N sync'ing it , but by completly deforming it's original content as good as possible.

If I go back in time again, the first thing I learned was basic midi everything alongside the use of FT2 ( fasttrackerII ). FT2 was one the first sample sequencers available on a pc, it was free too. So I did both and in conjunction since then on ( ft2 is midi I/O too ). In between then and now I've concluded a few things so far which goes for anything in terms of producing and audio;

Analogue = performance
Digital = ease of use

Analogue = vintage/retro
Digital = nu skool

Analogue = expensive
Digital = relativly cheap

Analogue = quality
Digital = A good copy of analogue

Analogue = The basics
Digital = Enhanced basics or more basics in a smaller environment.

In terms of a producer, I dont think there's anything like a " sampling " producer or a " keyboard beats " producers. If anyone walks up to me and says " hey i'm blablabla producer and make blablabla beats " i would be seriously annoyed by an answer like " I make keyboard beats ", as if he could not be interrested in learning about the bigger picture, that pretty much underscaling your skills, and by all means, we want to be corperate bad asses of our own independend labels so, lets say we're producers, and that there is no other form.

A studio is not complete without a sampler.
A studio is not complete without a keyboard.
In both cases it's half YOUR potential in expressing whatevers on your mind the audible way.

Nuff said

 

[inrctyhoodmusic]

Originally posted by JPeg
"that's bullshit and if he can do what tim fresh and company are doing wy isn't he making money like them......that sounds like a jealous statement
if it's so easy then he wouldn't be a sample producer only"

yo

1)madlib does use synths, vibes, fender rhodes and other live instruments in his productions.

2)maybe he dont do that much of that type of music cause he finds it less challenging or maybe cos he thinks it sounds wack

I think its good to combine all elements of modern technology to make music, why limit urself to just using keyboard presets or just sampling?

I also think alot of self righteous "i dont use samples its all original" types r angry cos that keyboard shit is hella simple but they wanna believe that by using a keyboard they are better musicians

Well I think that kind of staement he made was just a pure hate thing no disrespect to you jpeg if he can do it why the fuck is he saying it's easier than sampling...I have no problem with either one...When I first started this thing here all I did was sample as I started to grow and make money I wanted other a equipment so after the asr-x the roland xv3080 and now the triton rack I just don't sample anymore not saying that I wont if someone should say anything it's sampling TAKES longer because you have to sit and listen until you hear something you like sample it chop it and lay it down and right now I don't have that kind of time......If you don't think I don't know anything about sampling the song I submitted for the illmuzik cd was a sample you can check it out on my soundclik page it's called rain delay

 

[J-malice]

Originally posted by mercurywaters
alot commercial producers use formulas when they make beats.

off topic, can you explain what you mean by they use formulas? shit i might need to come up wit some of my own. thanx

 

[WingsOfAnAngel]

'they use formulas' means that they basically use the same techniques on each and every song. they can use the same drum patterns, same synth presets, same samples etc'.
they have found a 'magical recipe', which they milk as much as they can.
sad, but true...

 

[PrOLifiK]

When I am coming up with my tracks I usually try to mix both together. Sometimes I will make a track only using samples, then other times I might use all keyboard sounds. Personally for me I find that it is harder to find a sample make it sound cool and flow perfectly. Smoke a blunt, and I can jam on the keyboard for sure. Thats just me, but both techniques definately take skills, no one is easy. I can feel both styles for sure