Its Not Wha You Got But How You Use It

Bobby Ffitch

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
^ good point.

I dont really have a problem with people not buying FL, or any other software. I havent spent very much money on gear anyway. It just bothers me when people use this double standard. well played though, ahaha. its been a pleasure debating with you.
 

djrekonize

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
ColossusBeatfix said:
The people who make FL probably arent either, so thats ok. RIght?

are u sure u dont work their??
and the programmers that make the actual program dont make that much either, the company itself does and if the product sells more copies the programmers dont get paid more
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
djrekonize said:
are u sure u dont work their??
and the programmers that make the actual program dont make that much either, the company itself does and if the product sells more copies the programmers dont get paid more

There arent that many programmers at image line working on FL and basicaly these "programmers" runn the company, these people are big time fanatics who love their work, they aint corporate bigshots although they probably are/could be by now.
 

Bobby Ffitch

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
anyway, my bad about that post. i was a few posts behind, forgot to refresh my page or something. you all posted like twice while i was posting that. so i editited it. but while i was doing that, you quoted what i first wrote about responded to that. ah, the miracles of realtime online discussion.

anyway, no i dont work for imageling, im an 18 year old broke ass beatmaker, i just like to listen to my moral side a bit too much sometimes. good point, i didnt think about that, but youre right, the workers at image line dont make more when fl sells more.
 

scandal

Maker of Beats
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 178
deStructuralize said:
Investments I'll be making once my income stabilizes, in no particular order: MPD16, turntable cartridges, Behringer DX626, M-Audio MobilePre, ACID 6, Behringer UB1204FX Pro, Vinyl.

Yodel.

Nooo dont get the mobile pre, although it is a step up from normal sound card if u invest $50 more dollars u could get a pci card like the delta 1010lt or the emu 1212. Which are much better in my opinion. The only thing is it doesnt have phantom power but that is cheap to get an adpater. I got the delta 1010 and I like it way better than the mobilepre that i replaced. just food 4 thought
 
O

open mind

Guest
Formant024 said:
try before buy... imo, I think its right for a noob to have the option to fully know before he spends money on software. In the early days software was hella expensive and students were dependend on buying software of they had no clue of its content...students dont have a lot of money and onfortunatly software is the way to go. Over time more people have picked up production as technology paved the way and the treshold for people these days has been lowered except that they didnt get richer thus the same problem ( although software has become cheaper ). In a sense its good that anyone starting out in the game with no fundings has the oppertunity to learn but at the point that one becomes aquinted and convinced of the software that he/she is using, then he/she should buy it. All those who crack software added this policy, its not just a saying but a form of fair marketing in regards of the consumer. When you do turn professional you'll have no other option than to use freeware or buy registered software so the whole hating is of no point and those who do this just for fun and not in it for the money wont make money by using the software, therefor will have no need to register. A pro knows better and recognizes the benefits, he will buy because it will grant him other guarantees and warezdude is lacking.

So, by all means leech and learn, then buy it...use you're money wisely.
iam absolutely down with the whole shit!!!
 

Sanova

Guess Who's Back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 9
scandal said:
Nooo dont get the mobile pre, although it is a step up from normal sound card if u invest $50 more dollars u could get a pci card like the delta 1010lt or the emu 1212. Which are much better in my opinion. The only thing is it doesnt have phantom power but that is cheap to get an adpater. I got the delta 1010 and I like it way better than the mobilepre that i replaced. just food 4 thought

I got the mobile pre. its actually really good. It works great with my mixer as well. (finally hooked that up)
 

classic

I am proud to be southern
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 90
not to beat a dead horse but this ,(it dont matter what u use) is only true to a certain point...

I mean on one level yea u can bang out beats etc.. on reason and make them sound just as good as if they were on an mpc but their comes a point in time that your GOING to have to kick out some cheese if u really want to take ur production to the next level,

Im sorry but their is only so much u can do with an app running on ur laptop soundwise, their comes a point when the work ur putting into makine ur sounds realstic isent worth it

Dont get me wrong i understand that their are people who have reason who are just as tight as people with alot of gear, but their comes a point that if u really wanna take ur shit to the next level, ur gonna have to kick out for some good preamps, some better VST's or extranal soundmodules and a better soundcard and a better mixer, casue in the long run it will imporve your sound...

So yea,,, i say this, if ur a newb, then yea it dont matter what u use, MPC reason whatever,
but when u get to a more advanced level of beatmaking, then the gear you use does matter, eventually software guys end up working alot harder to make thier shit bang and fing more realstic sounds...


clas....
 

Elementree

Musical Wizardry
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 8
classic said:
not to beat a dead horse but this ,(it dont matter what u use) is only true to a certain point...

I mean on one level yea u can bang out beats etc.. on reason and make them sound just as good as if they were on an mpc but their comes a point in time that your GOING to have to kick out some cheese if u really want to take ur production to the next level,

Im sorry but their is only so much u can do with an app running on ur laptop soundwise, their comes a point when the work ur putting into makine ur sounds realstic isent worth it

Dont get me wrong i understand that their are people who have reason who are just as tight as people with alot of gear, but their comes a point that if u really wanna take ur shit to the next level, ur gonna have to kick out for some good preamps, some better VST's or extranal soundmodules and a better soundcard and a better mixer, casue in the long run it will imporve your sound...

So yea,,, i say this, if ur a newb, then yea it dont matter what u use, MPC reason whatever,
but when u get to a more advanced level of beatmaking, then the gear you use does matter, eventually software guys end up working alot harder to make thier shit bang and fing more realstic sounds...


clas....

Word to that. For the longest time I just scrounged shit up on the internet and spent countless hours tryin to find good sounds, but when it boils down to it, you gotta go get some good moniters for mixing, if your a composer your gonna have to get a good synth engine and youl also have to cop some type of good bass program. You cant spend your whole career trying to mooch free shit because youll end up falling behind when others are using state of the art equipment.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
shit, you dont wanna know how many reason tracks we've stumbled upon from so called super producers with super tracks ( which they are ) but we had to filter and edit all the sounds cuz they didnt hear that small hiss on their sampled kicks, that their timing was off, etc etc etc. At a certain level the details matter, how your treat your instruments, signal paths etc etc etc, you HAVE to take yourself serious and critisize yourself... nothing's easier than saying IM THE KING OF REASON !!! it takes more than that...you can buy PT because all the studio runn that too, but they also have a nice Neve or SSL, outboard comps ( mostly classics or discrete ) so dont think PT will fix it cuz them engineers dont even believe that. Hence me saying, use your money wisely, better you save up and skip all the budget gear and buy them genelecs instead of an mpc...Never take the easy route cuz you'll regret it and most of all, you're wasting your money.
 

dj360_iNfInItE1

UNDeRGROUND STaTE of MiND
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 16
classic said:
not to beat a dead horse but this ,(it dont matter what u use) is only true to a certain point...

I mean on one level yea u can bang out beats etc.. on reason and make them sound just as good as if they were on an mpc but their comes a point in time that your GOING to have to kick out some cheese if u really want to take ur production to the next level,

Im sorry but their is only so much u can do with an app running on ur laptop soundwise, their comes a point when the work ur putting into makine ur sounds realstic isent worth it

Dont get me wrong i understand that their are people who have reason who are just as tight as people with alot of gear, but their comes a point that if u really wanna take ur shit to the next level, ur gonna have to kick out for some good preamps, some better VST's or extranal soundmodules and a better soundcard and a better mixer, casue in the long run it will imporve your sound...

So yea,,, i say this, if ur a newb, then yea it dont matter what u use, MPC reason whatever,
but when u get to a more advanced level of beatmaking, then the gear you use does matter, eventually software guys end up working alot harder to make thier shit bang and fing more realstic sounds...


clas....

I agree with you to a point. As far as signal processing and making your beats sound as clear and precise as possible, more equipment, of course, will be needed before it's all said an done. But if you bang out beats on FL, Reason, MPC, or ASR-10, that doesn't matter. What a person is creative with is just what is. I don't think a producer, musician, etc. necessarily has to move up to using "professional" hardware to make their sound more "professional" sounding. They may, (probably), will upgrade their mixing and signal processing equipment but instrumentation doesn't have to change at all if they don't want to.
 

Bobby Ffitch

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
^ I agree that creative talent is the major factor. However, i would submit that more capable equipment can enhance that talent and make a good produder better.

Also, There is a lot to be said about the feel of what you use to make beats. Finding out whether you prefer software or hardware is a personal preference, but it CAN help you make better beats. Personally, i prefer both the sound and the working process of working with hardware. There are great producers who work best in FL and reason, and there are great producers with tritons, motifs, and mpcs. SO while on the whole it IS about what is in your mind and your creative abilities, there is also something to be said for making beats in a process and environmet which is condusive to your particular creative process.
 

scandal

Maker of Beats
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 178
I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but from my experience it doesn't really matter how good u mix a beat, cause if u sell it to somebody professional it wont even matter cause they are gonna want u to track out the beat anyway and mix it theyselves. so ur gonna have to go back, take off all the effects and nuetralize every sound anyways.
 

dj360_iNfInItE1

UNDeRGROUND STaTE of MiND
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 16
^ColossusBeatfix - Well said, homie!
 

Bobby Ffitch

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
scandal said:
I dont know if anyone mentioned this, but from my experience it doesn't really matter how good u mix a beat, cause if u sell it to somebody professional it wont even matter cause they are gonna want u to track out the beat anyway and mix it theyselves. so ur gonna have to go back, take off all the effects and nuetralize every sound anyways.


I disagree completely, for several reasons. One, this isnt really exactly what the topis has been about. But really, it does matter. See, if you have a poorly mixed, no effects beat, when you play it for the mcee you are way less likely to get any interest. another thing is, often times the person who masters your beat will just take your effects to the next level, and correct the overall mix. they often use your effects as a guideline, and just reaaply them with higherquality apps, racks, etc. (depending on what you used on the OG beat.) Thirdly, mixing is a major part of making beats. Most mcees, unless you are selling to major label artists, dont have professional engineers at their beck and call. That means that they cant just get the beat mixed right away for them. In my beat selling process, i prefer to send them my mix to record over, and then when they get the beat mixed, ill send them a clean multiracked version. because recording to an unmixed beat sucks, and there is absolutely no point in having the artists label/engineer mix the beat before they record, and then again after. its just and extra step. SO it is important how well you mix your beats.... its a major skill. its also one of the main differentiations between mediocre beatmakers and Good beatmakers. for example, if you peep Crack City's mixes, their beats are nice, but their mixes ARE ALWAYS SOLID. Other people, with similiar beatmaking capabilities, sometimes seem less consistent because of their mixes sometimes being off. Thats why i never send any mcees beats before i mix them. I never let anyone hear any of my throwaway beats either. its the same prinicipal.


I dont really expect you to read all that, all i basically said was that mixing is important.
 

scandal

Maker of Beats
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 178
ColossusBeatfix said:
I disagree completely, for several reasons. One, this isnt really exactly what the topis has been about. But really, it does matter. See, if you have a poorly mixed, no effects beat, when you play it for the mcee you are way less likely to get any interest. another thing is, often times the person who masters your beat will just take your effects to the next level, and correct the overall mix. they often use your effects as a guideline, and just reaaply them with higherquality apps, racks, etc. (depending on what you used on the OG beat.) Thirdly, mixing is a major part of making beats. Most mcees, unless you are selling to major label artists, dont have professional engineers at their beck and call. That means that they cant just get the beat mixed right away for them. In my beat selling process, i prefer to send them my mix to record over, and then when they get the beat mixed, ill send them a clean multiracked version. because recording to an unmixed beat sucks, and there is absolutely no point in having the artists label/engineer mix the beat before they record, and then again after. its just and extra step. SO it is important how well you mix your beats.... its a major skill. its also one of the main differentiations between mediocre beatmakers and Good beatmakers. for example, if you peep Crack City's mixes, their beats are nice, but their mixes ARE ALWAYS SOLID. Other people, with similiar beatmaking capabilities, sometimes seem less consistent because of their mixes sometimes being off. Thats why i never send any mcees beats before i mix them. I never let anyone hear any of my throwaway beats either. its the same prinicipal.


I dont really expect you to read all that, all i basically said was that mixing is important.

I see what ur saying, but what Im trying to say is that A lot of people dont have access to all that analog equipment that makes your beats sound professional, so Do the best mix u can. but what Im really tryin to say inbetween the lines is that a beat can be done on anything as long as the creativity is there. U can do the best mixing in the world, but if the beat sucks then u just have a really good mix to a wack beat. but again from my experience any artist that has been in the game for a long time knows that how he hears a beat for the first time isn't how it is gonna sound on the finished product. So its not that Im sayin mixing isn't important, it is, just not as much in the preproduction stage. Dont get me wrong though im not telling you guys to not mix your beats, but dont spend 3 hours trying to get the perfect mix for you beats cause if you sell it to someone in the majors, its gonna be mixed again anyways.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
Yeah, we're all gonna get released by the majors be very prepared. Meanwhile other people go indy and want to cut down on those expenses, by being as self sufficient as possible, spend that money you save on a mastering studio instead. Second, considering you wont be king of pop right away most climb up the hierarchy by networking and releasing so so n via via. With those connections there's never enough funding for mixing or mastering budgets, there's still a decent limit you can achieve under those circumstance that will benefit on the impression you leave your potentional connections. Third, its all basics and principles you will need to know and imo think its lame to discard this issue in regards to the electronica genre. You wont become super producer overnight, I dont even think anyone can consider himself a credible producer with less than 2/3 years of experience...oke thats me. Despite these points i wont take away the musical aspect of producing, especialy for those starting out... you cant experiment and compose enough which has nothing to do mixing or dynamics, probably the primary skill to any producer and has nothing to do with proper gear ( perhaps choice of instrument, brand and model specific...depending on the instrument ).
 

scandal

Maker of Beats
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 178
of course were not all gonna make it to the majors, but im saying any serious artist major or indy is not gonna be recording out of the closet, but in a real studio with equipment that most home beatmakers would not be able to afford. All im saying is it is more important for a beatmaker to have talent in beatmakin than in mixing, why do you think people make a living off being an engineer? (they provide the equipment and the service)

And I'm not telling all you producers to go out and pay to get your beats professionaly mixed, but rather do the best you can with what you got and when you track out beats for an artist make sure you give them a dry and wet version, so if they want to mix it themselves (which most established artist will do) then leave it up to them. On the other hand if you are selling it to unestablished local artist (still recording in the closet.) then it is probable they wont even notice the difference between a home mix and a professional mix. so try you best to mix with what you got, no need to go cop hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment.

If any producer is going to spend money on equipment let it be on equipment that makes music, not equpiment used to mix it.
 

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