It's Just a Matter of Time...

[dacalion]

Do you you all remember when you or your dad had that nice stereo system in the crib? I mean pops had 1 turntable, a cassette deck, a cd player, eq, tuner, a hard hitting amp and some killer 12 - 15" speakers in the corners. You wanted to bring your peeps over to check it out and listen to how good it sounded.

Then came along the all-in-one joints where everything was all in one case but looked like they were still seperate...lol. Alot of them had a seperate tuner but the main body of the system was in one case. I personally hated those because if one piece broke you had to take the entire system to the shop.

Today stereo systems are all but gone. They just don't exist anymore. You can find certain items but nothing like you used to.

Well this is what I'm reminded of when I see all these new products coming out in music production gear that have multi-roles. Keyboard,control surface and a built in mpc all in one case for your convenience. A lot of us see these combinations useful for different reasons, space saving, easier to work with and so on...The trend is just like the stereo equiptment trend.

Thats all good but I'm very concerned that this may be a part of a series of progressions that will ultimately lead to EVERYTHING being done on computers. Right now we aren't concerned because we all know that a computer just can't handle all the requirements needed to do everything in music production, or can it?

I personally think we're very close. Close enough that the next generation computer will handle everything easily. When that happens, I fear the end of hardware as we know it.

Ofcorse there will be a transition period where audiophiles and sound engineers will fight to hold on to the dying breed. Their number one argument is already here..."hardware has a warmer feel than digital reproduction". Thier number two argument is also here, "digital music reproduction sound quality is not as good as analog".

It's just a matter of time...


MOF

 

[Dysphuncktional]

Ive personally always been a fan of having one thing with one feature or basic functionality that does that thing very well, no matter what it is. All this 'all-in-one' crap is wack. Id rather have 3 seperate units that are awesome at their individual tasks, than have some big cheap all-in-one deal where it does all the same thigns, but half-assed.

I dont think hardware is going anywhere soon (i mean even in a computer you need some hardware along with it , like at the very least an audio interface). There are still countless people who buy their hifi system in loose componets, no audiophile uses a little boombox or bookcase stereo system for anything other than background music during chores or w/e.

I also believe computers are already at the point where you can do everything required in music production.

I remember back in the mid to late 90s when i told people i made music on the computer, they would smirk and act like it couldnt be anything other than little computer bleeps or w/e they thought. Now, when i bought my sampler, i actually had everyone looking strangely and saying 'but isnt that much easier on a computer?'.

Its funny how things change...

 

[mercurywaters]

i think i'm more worried about the trend of companies putting out products that aren't fixable. not only is your stereo all in one case now, when it breaks, there are no replacement parts available to fix it with. so now you have to buy a whole new system. i know that makes sony tons of money but it sucks for us. so now you see tons of people on ebay selling broken electronics for parts. shits crazy.

back on topic: i don't think we'll ever see the death of hardware. all hardware is, is a specialized computer. there's no difference. hardware sampler's convert everything to digital on the inside to do all the processing even though they'll send an analog signal out. and purely analog systems are pretty much on their last leg and have been for decades. my father is a diehard audiophile and has recently switched to cd's as his main listening device, though he has analog vacuum tube amps and so forth.

 

[Agent Smith]

so true with the non-fixable stuff. i had a pair of shure earbuds with silicone rubber ear-thingies. the only size that fit my ear got ripped somehow and i contacted the company...which replied something to the effect of "we are not currently stocking replacement ear pieces". nasty tactics to sell more stuff.

as far as hardware, it may fall out of wide use, but i don't think it's going away. look at the turntable...still around, still in use by a couple dedicated demographics.

then, look at the access virus TI...and even the nord modular synth....both are attempts to marry the convenience of computers with the sound of actual hardware. i think if the future is smart it will go this route.

 

[konceptG]

I'm one of those people that never believed in "All-In-One" type devices. My home stereo's are components (separate tuner, amplifier, CD and/or DVD player, and speakers), my car stereo has components (CD deck, 3 small amps, separate mids and tweeters in the front and rear plus a single 8" sub), and I've never owned a "workstation" type keyboard. It's always been drum machine, sampler, sound modules, keyboard/synth, fx, mixer, and a sequencer on my PC or Atari. This way, if something goes down, I still have the rest to work with.


The way we Americans buy things and demand cheaper and cheaper goods is the biggest reason we have this "throw away" culture. As we drove prices for goods down, it became unreasonable to repair broken items. For instance, when VCR's were still well over $200 for a "cheap" model, it was reasonable to spend $50 to get one repaired or properly cleaned. When the price dropped to less than $100, you could no longer rationalize spending that same $50 for repair when, for $29 more, you could buy a new one.

Those all in one bookshelf stereos were originally designed to give excellent quality sound in a small space. Sony and Yamaha had some very impressive sounding models in the late 80's, especially Yamaha with their Active Servo woofer technology. As the years went on, companies like Aiwa and JVC added cheaper alternatives into the mix, capitalizing on the public's facination with these systems. By 1994, you could buy a bookshelf system with a million flashing lights and craptastic sound for around $100, far cheaper than the $400-$500 the better quality systems commanded. Ultimately, everyone started building these shit sounding systems for dirt cheap. Because they're so cheap and of such low quality, repairs on them is almost non-existant. Most would rather buy a new one than get the old one fixed.

 

[LDB]

There will always be some form of hardware if it's no more than your PC. For me right now it's my computer, mixer and keyboard. Everything else is software. What's here today is gone tomorrow so for all practical purposes software is where it's at. If your hardware is 2yrs or better in age chances are replacement parts are scarce or non existent. People want things stronger,faster,smaller and right now. Most music hardware can't keep up with the demands of the consumer. Technology is a beast that will eat you alive if you don't keep up with it. It's better to be ahead of the wave than behind it!

 

[Ash Holmz]

I'm one of those people that never believed in "All-In-One" type devices. My home stereo's are components (separate tuner, amplifier, CD and/or DVD player, and speakers), my car stereo has components (CD deck, 3 small amps, separate mids and tweeters in the front and rear plus a single 8" sub), and I've never owned a "workstation" type keyboard. It's always been drum machine, sampler, sound modules, keyboard/synth, fx, mixer, and a sequencer on my PC or Atari. This way, if something goes down, I still have the rest to work with.


The way we Americans buy things and demand cheaper and cheaper goods is the biggest reason we have this "throw away" culture. As we drove prices for goods down, it became unreasonable to repair broken items. For instance, when VCR's were still well over $200 for a "cheap" model, it was reasonable to spend $50 to get one repaired or properly cleaned. When the price dropped to less than $100, you could no longer rationalize spending that same $50 for repair when, for $29 more, you could buy a new one.

Those all in one bookshelf stereos were originally designed to give excellent quality sound in a small space. Sony and Yamaha had some very impressive sounding models in the late 80's, especially Yamaha with their Active Servo woofer technology. As the years went on, companies like Aiwa and JVC added cheaper alternatives into the mix, capitalizing on the public's facination with these systems. By 1994, you could buy a bookshelf system with a million flashing lights and craptastic sound for around $100, far cheaper than the $400-$500 the better quality systems commanded. Ultimately, everyone started building these shit sounding systems for dirt cheap. Because they're so cheap and of such low quality, repairs on them is almost non-existant. Most would rather buy a new one than get the old one fixed.

well said .. i agree 100%

 

[thedreampolice]

I already do everything in the Computer for the most part. What can hardware do that you can't do out of the box with Logic?

 

[Agent Smith]

What can hardware do that you can't do out of the box with Logic?

knock someone out if it falls on them...

 

[dacalion]

Guys all I'm saying is... this is a trend that we should be aware of. I'm not suggesting that hardware is gonna be gone tomorrow, next week or next year. Just like konceptG said, "people are still rocking turntables". It's nowhere near the pace it was back in the 80's when scratching was "in". But just the fact that some are still rocking turntables, is keeping them alive.

Thats what I'm saying as far as hardware goes, yeah it'll be around for a long time but will it be the standard, or the most popular way? I doubt it very seriously! All the signs of evolution tells us differently. As with everything else, as one way gains popularity, another way loses it. Computer based music production is here, what is it replacing? Like dreampolice said, "What do we need any hardware for nowadays?" especially in hip hop music production.

Some will say that digital players have replaced home stereo, some will say that the cd replaced vinyl, some ARE gonna say that hardware was replaced by software...count on it!


MOF

 

[thedreampolice]

"knock someone out if it falls on them.."

Fair enough, my old MPC2000xl makes a mean weapon!

 

[Ash Holmz]

theres alot software cant do yet imo ... no soft synth really can sound like a moog.. and no tape simulator really sounds like its genuiley coming from tape.. either all those blind test are full of shit or i have supersonic ears cuz i could the difference like that between soft synth and a real minimoog. I dont want to start a debate and maybe im living in a diffrent world but i firmly believe hardware still sounds better than software.

 

[BluPHI!!!]

theres alot software cant do yet imo ... no soft synth really can sound like a moog.. and no tape simulator really sounds like its genuiley coming from tape.. either all those blind test are full of shit or i have supersonic ears cuz i could the difference like that between soft synth and a real minimoog. I dont want to start a debate and maybe im living in a diffrent world but i firmly believe hardware still sounds better than software.

Im not trying to sound mad cliche' but:

In the end,

Whether its hardware or software, Its ALL ABOUT THE MAN/LADY BEHIND THE MACHINE/SOFTWARE.

MF DOOM: Roland Sp303 (Which I think is bananas!!)
Swizz Beats, Dr. Dre, DJ Quick: A decade plus old Akai MPC 3000
9th Wonder: fl Studio


Everybody on ilmuzik: Any and everything to make their traXx HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( Just listen to ilmuzik radio plus the battles) -------When I grow up, i look forward to be involved with that--LOOOOL

 

[dacalion]

I dont want to start a debate and maybe im living in a diffrent world but i firmly believe hardware still sounds better than software.

That kind of ear is developed over time, it's truely listening and not just hearing. So I can feel where youre coming from on that. In my case, I'm not sure if its because I love working with hardware vs. working with software but I believe that I can hear the difference also and I just feel like you get a much better sound from hardware.

Back in the day, dbx was the leading company in sound processors, they were more recognised for their noise reduction units. I think that I have everything they made until they started making amps...I mean dbx was at -90 while the hottest thing was dolby noise reduction which was at -30...my point is, I was really into the quality of sound and thats what I was always trying to improve on.

However with the improvements on software and digital music, came better sounding music in general, you wont find dolby noise reduction on anything nowadays so that says enough by itself.

MOF

 

[Kontents]

That kind of ear is developed over time, it's truely listening and not just hearing. So I can feel where youre coming from on that. In my case, I'm not sure if its because I love working with hardware vs. working with software but I believe that I can hear the difference also and I just feel like you get a much better sound from hardware.
MOF

I can tell the difference too. It is there. Which is why I belive that Hardware will always be around even if Software is the Top shit. The two put out different sounds on the audio. its the way the devices process the audio.

 

[thedreampolice]

Dude Minimonsta sounds amazing
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Minimonsta

I have spent loads of time with a little phatty and that is also amazing. But the monsta rocks all day long. Also Dre is on Reason allot these days. Just blaze switched from MPC4000 to Pro tools. Jdilla was a Pro tools wiz. You have to work differently in software to get the sounds you are accustom to.

 

[Ash Holmz]

i dont deny that minimonsta sounds good .. but to me its not an acuurate minimoog sound .. hardware just has a "looser" more organic sound to my ears.. i guess its the difference between voltages and 1 and 0's... just sounds better .. for all the technology and tricks we have at our disposal the music of today sounds thinner and lifeless compared to the stuff ten years ago .. and dont even get started about the 70's .. some of that stuff sounds unbelevable! ... if u listen to some of the classic hip hop albums like low end theory, midnight maraduers, 2pac all eyez on me, ... that sound is not around today... what software misses imo is depth .. software has superior resolution and u can get a big,clear, and wide mix.. but depth is a trait of hardware imo. and depth is what seperates the great mix from the good one. its like the diffrence between watching transformers on dvd instead of at the theater. software is popular because of econmics. its cheaper, easier, and u can save ur work and go back to it lol.. its popularity has nothing to do with the sound of it.

 

[konceptG]

theres alot software cant do yet imo ... no soft synth really can sound like a moog.. and no tape simulator really sounds like its genuiley coming from tape.. either all those blind test are full of shit or i have supersonic ears cuz i could the difference like that between soft synth and a real minimoog. I dont want to start a debate and maybe im living in a diffrent world but i firmly believe hardware still sounds better than software.

When comparing analog to VA, yeah, there's a difference. That said, how many cats out there these days are actively using a Moog, ARP, or Roland Jupiter in their production? Many are using VA synths like the AN1x, Nord, etc or are using the VA sections of their workstations like the Korg MOSS boards. Very few dudes are pulling out the old analog joint when they want a vicious bass sound. Instead, they dial up a patch on the Fantom or Triton and call it a day.

In that respect, software can completely replace hardware. A PC or Mac can fully replace a Fantom, Trinity, or any other "workstation"-type board, drum machine, or rompler. The ONLY thing software can't completely replace is analog gear or true live acoustic instrumentation.

 

[Ash Holmz]

well analog gear = hardware so i dont see your point... but even hardware romplers and VAs sound better to me than softsynths... and yes i understand that they are just computers inside of hardware but they still sound more full than softsynths.. i dont wanna argue but people will say all day that softsynths sound as good or better than hardware but the music doesnt support their claim.. i still hear the same thin stuff ... now i agree that softsynths/samplers can and do sound good and have their use in production, but what i dont agree with is the whole idea of doing "everything" on computer and having it sound equivalent to using quality hardware pices. maybe one day but not anytime soon. someone mentioned just blaze and jdilla... those guys have more hardware than i would know what to do with. yeah blaze uses logic (for conveince, not sound and he admitted to it in an interview) but he also runs his sounds through an ssl board... and there is no denying his pre-logic work sounds fuller and punches harder.. listen to kingdom come's sonics then back it up to blueprint,dynasty era.. way punchier drums and livelier sound in the blueprint/dynasty era.the ears dont lie.

 

[2GooD Productions]

I think the depth in older music is due to the final recording medium and not the actual hardware used in the process of making the original track. Vinyl had limits on its dynamic range and so tracks utilised the limited range very well, nowadays everything is compressed and boosted the hell out of , because digital mediums allow it. The simple process of just converting from wav to mp3 seriously degrades the quality of the output. I master my wav files to -0.5db but when i convert it to mp3 it starts peaking at 0.0 and sometimes above that, i find the process of getting a nice balanced mp3 is so much harder than it is for wavs. And very often the mp3 i end up with doesnt sound nearly as nice as the wav that came before it. With the increased dynamic range that digital media provides you would have thought it would be better utilised, but to get the maximum impact when played it gets boosted the hell out of. People can say all day that digital media is better than analog, but I beg to differ. The digitisation of music adds anomolies.
This might not be the case for the demise in the quality of output, I just think it may have played an important part in the whole quality of a finished product.