Is this considered sampling or is it composing?

[J-ReZyN]

Forgive me if this has been asked before, I searched but couldn't find anything that really answers this. If you compose a track and you use a VST (or DXi, TDM, etc...) plug-in that is based on a sample/sound library, would you consider this sampling or composing? For example, plug-ins like Trilogy, Atmosphere, Virtual Bassist, some NI plugs, etc., these are all sample collections with a built in VST GUI, and give you the benefit of being able to manipulate the samples via the plug-in and also sync to the host application's tempo. It's not traditional sampling in the sense that you're not recording, trimming and editing the sample yourself, thats done for you already, but it is still using samples. The use of plug-ins that are pure virtual synths or emulators in my mind would be considered composing, but with the sample based plug-ins it's a gray area. So I'm just wondering about others opinions and thoughts on this.

 

[bcThaDon]

Now if your referring to sampled instruments, the notes themselves I would say composing. Because your creating the bassline, melody and so on. I personally consider a sampled track a prior composition that had a portion of it looped and manipulated, ie. chopped up, slowed down etc. But you can also compose with sampled material as well with all the chopping going on. Basicly I am trying to say if you create a track and each element originated from one individual note then you composed otherwise you sampled. I do both but enjoy composing more.

 

[Vince]

Yeah, this is like the BIG hypocrisy with people who are composers. They're still relying on preset sounds and samples.

The biggest difference between a sample-based beat maker, and a VSTi-based beat maker, is that the first one DIGS, and FINDS the sounds on his own, while the second one just downloads and buys them.

 

[GRAFIK]

well all of my music is sample based, now if you are using like a sampled key or guitar note or whatever it may be, this is sampling. You might not have to clear the sample, because i'm sure it is already done, but yes i consider it sampling. Some tracks i loop, but rarely do i do this. I postly chop the sample note or piece by piece and try to reconstruct something totally different. I can sample something you would have no idea what it was. But if using sampled notes, yes this is sampling, in my opinion

 

[J-ReZyN]

Yeah, this is like the BIG hypocrisy with people who are composers. They're still relying on preset sounds and samples.

The biggest difference between a sample-based beat maker, and a VSTi-based beat maker, is that the first one DIGS, and FINDS the sounds on his own, while the second one just downloads and buys them.

Yeah I know what you mean. Personally, I do both. Digging for me was nearly a full time job at one point and I've got a a vinyl collection like you wouldn't believe, but when I came across some of these plug-ins I was like hell yeah, these sounds are clean, they're already chopped and the number of sounds in some of those plug-ins are staggering. I still dig, sample and chop, but I do use these plug-ins also together with other keyboards, synths and virtual synths. What ever gets me the sound I'm looking for is all that matters I guess.

 

[samuelock]

like bcthadon said, i consider sampling to be chopping up a melody or bassline, or instrumentation that you did not create. composing is arranging melodies and basslines and blah.

 

[5th Sequence]

lol shit I used to wonder this same thing a while ago. I think vince said it best though.

I just recently got into composing my own keys an then sampling them. Then I can take the same "limited" aspect of only using a sample and making something without worying about sample clearances. I wonder if this could be one of those "next" things... people samplin themselves. Imagine producers having to know all of the stuff for composing, then sampling their own shit after that. Essentially 2 different beats in the end, no sample clearances.

 

[KENWOP]

i dont my man if its choped already and even though its a vst i think it would still be sampling composing would be from scratch with notes made into melody's 1 by one

 

[pancakebunnny]

Unless you're either creating the sounds acoustically, with an instrument, or synthetically from scratch, it's technically a sample of a sound. The Motif is full of accurate sounding instruments, which are sampled from real instruments. So if you wanna be anal about it, it's a sample unless you play the instrument yourself or it's a sound created from scratch.

But fuck all that... if it's your melody and arrangement, it's a composition.

 

[Vince]

But fuck all that... if it's your melody and arrangement, it's a composition.

I agree to the fullest, but with this being said, a song made from just different records still can be your own composition, right?

 

[Lex]

I think personally think so, if you chop a melody into individual notes then compose your own new melody out of that then you've composed it - and I also think that if you're taking, for a example, a chord progression from one record then getting other notes and phrases from other records to fit that partciular chord progression then I'd consider that composing too.
The only difference, in my mind at least, is your composing with sounds you've found. [Which as Dantson said, is what pretty much everyone is doing unless they're playing the instrument themselves or synthetically creating their own sounds].

 

[J-ReZyN]

You all make good points and really, there is no right or wrong answer. It's just I hear the same question all the time either when I play somebody one of my tracks, or asked here or on other forums about other peoples tracks. It's always, "is that track sampled or composed?". Now I'm not talking about a track where it's obvious the person just looped a big chunck of some record and dropped some drums on it. I'm talking about a track where you used sampled elements in a way to create something completely new by creating your own melodies and combining other elements like chord progressions like Lex mentioned. My answer to the question would be, it is my own composition comprised of synths (or any instruments you may have used) and sampled elements.

I do make a distinction between between people who dig and chop their own samples and people who rely soley on prepackaged samples, be it a vst sample-based plug-in or hardware gear like romplers and keyboards. In the end, they are both using samples, but the digger is putting in a lot more effort and basically creating their own patches from scratch and not just relying on preset patches. Vince makes a really good point about the hypocrisy of hardware users looking down on people who sample, especially when a lot of the hardware gear they are using is based on samples also. But that's another thread altogether and I'm sure it's been covered here before.

 

[breal]

I think personally think so, if you chop a melody into individual notes then compose your own new melody out of that then you've composed it - and I also think that if you're taking, for a example, a chord progression from one record then getting other notes and phrases from other records to fit that partciular chord progression then I'd consider that composing too.
The only difference, in my mind at least, is your composing with sounds you've found. [Which as Dantson said, is what pretty much everyone is doing unless they're playing the instrument themselves or synthetically creating their own sounds].

Composing is deciding what note you want.What note it is and it's velocity.
Something that cannot be done just cutting and pasting someone elses melody.
Now I find nothing wrong doing that.I fact it can be hard to do at times.
But I feel it's like doing a remix.

 

[Lex]

Composing is deciding what note you want.What note it is and it's velocity.

I personally belive you can do this cutting and pasting [multiple] sounds off vinyl/cassette/CD etc... If you have a particular melody in your head, and you're simply looking for a couple of riffs which contain the notes you want, and you then chop those riffs into individual notes and from that melody you had in your head then you have deciced 'what note you want' and deciding it's velocity isn't hard to do after that - especially when you had the melody you wanted to create in your head before starting, you'd almost definately have thought about the velovities of certain notes.

 

[sammy beats]

In the end, they are both using samples, but the digger is putting in a lot more effort and basically creating their own patches from scratch and not just relying on preset patches. Vince makes a really good point about the hypocrisy of hardware users looking down on people who sample, especially when a lot of the hardware gear they are using is based on samples also. But that's another thread altogether and I'm sure it's been covered here before.

I completely disagree that the digger is putting in more effort. Personally, I compose all of my music using multisample plug-ins and synths and while it may be a little harder for a digger to find a sound that they can use, if you are a composer, you are writing an entire beat from scratch. So what if you don't actually play the guitar part on a guitar. If you sample, you don't have to write the melody. Yes you have to put the track together if you sample, but its not easy writing a melody and an accompaniment with multisamples and making it sound good.

 

[BluPHI!!!]

But in the end,

ITS ALL ABOUT HOW HOT THE BEAT IS--NO MATTER WHAT THE EFFORT

 

[5th Sequence]

But in the end,

ITS ALL ABOUT HOW HOT THE BEAT IS--NO MATTER WHAT THE EFFORT

True that.

I would actually say that it is an equal amount of effort though. Not on some cheesy "co-sign everyone" shit either, both ways of making beats require mad creativity. I think composing can be really difficult, just creating things completely on your own using whatever sounds. Theres a lot that goes into making a hot track from scratch becuase you get no assistance.

As far as sampling, it can go from being much much easier than composing (i.e. looping) to much more difficult than composing (i.e. using tools to craft sounds INto what you want them to be, THEN composing with that). I'll try an clarify. I use to strictly compose an then went to sampling because of the challenge and of course the rawer sound I felt it had, but I liked the fact that you didnt have everything easily at your disposal. Creative sampling is like sampling a riff, chopping out a few select notes from it, pitching it up or down, time stretching it, filtering it or whatever to get a desired sound from it. You could do this while composing to, except that when dealing with samples you're more than likely dealing with more than one note in that sample. You're composing a bassline thats over keys that has some guitar part on it, an then manipulating THAT into whatever.

Both ways are equally and respectably the same creativity wise.

My long ass .02.