Well put LBD. I think alotta ppl put the blame on the artist or the radio station for the fact that their favorite style of music isnt popular. It goes so much deeper than that. The most simple analysis of the music industry shows that the sound of EVERY genre changes greatly every 7 to 10 years...ALOT of factors go into why this is...The point is that nothing is going to stop that cycle, even if the radio dissappeared today you would have local movements that pop up that some of you guys wouldnt call "real hip hop"...I mean the evil industry didnt invent snap music or the jook movement thats grass roots old school hip hop vibes, simple rhymes 808s and fun dances...I love how ppl forget the 80s when they talk about "real" hop hop
Im really liking whats happening to hip hop
- Thread starter dacalion
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Beat This!The next Beat This! Competition is from November 27-28th!
LD to the B, I wish that I could find that thread you told me to relax or whatever years ago...I remember it very well. What you must realize is that 1. nobody that truely loves hip hop (like me, you and everybody else) wants anything to hurt it, this is the game that we fugg with. 2. The internet was a major factor in the decline of CD sales which is the reason the BIG BOYS are feeling their pockets take a hit and going forward with this, and until they figure out how to stop file swapping, we are safe. 3. Its obvious that you're very sensitive about this matter but you gotta realize that some people can take the inevitable and move on to alternate sollutions. The idea of playing local talent instead was just a suggestion to "if it happens then what?" and thats all. It has nothing to do with a lack of knowledge of hip hop but all to do with accepting change and moving forward. Last but not least 4. Breathe, do some wooo saaaahs, and remember the serenity prayer.
shadeed
Go Digital or Go Home
ill o.g.
LDB is 100% right in regards to the performance tax. Radio had a huge impact on hip hop culture - in a sense it legitimized it going back to Kool DJ Red Alert, Mr. Magic and others.
Not having urban stations KILLS independent hip hop because it takes away a major measuring stick. How do you know the guys who are making moves in your city? That's right, you heard their song on the radio.
Trust me, Cathy Hughes wouldn't have launched a Reality Radio campaign where she is personally doing spot ads that run 50 times a day if it wasn't news.
I'm fortunate in that I get to listen to a lot of new music and I'm very connected to many underground scenes around the world.
My opinion is that I don't see a resurgence of "real hip-hop" music overall. If anything, there are a few guys who are choosing to rap about their actual life and they are being praised heavily (almost over-rated) for that choice.
The rise of 50 Cent, Young Jeezy, and Lil Wayne crippled hip hop creativity from the standpoint that up and coming rappers feel the need to emulate that style.
What I do see as a positive is the fact that the internet has allowed movements such as Grind Time Battles to grow into a nationwide situation.
Not having urban stations KILLS independent hip hop because it takes away a major measuring stick. How do you know the guys who are making moves in your city? That's right, you heard their song on the radio.
Trust me, Cathy Hughes wouldn't have launched a Reality Radio campaign where she is personally doing spot ads that run 50 times a day if it wasn't news.
I'm fortunate in that I get to listen to a lot of new music and I'm very connected to many underground scenes around the world.
My opinion is that I don't see a resurgence of "real hip-hop" music overall. If anything, there are a few guys who are choosing to rap about their actual life and they are being praised heavily (almost over-rated) for that choice.
The rise of 50 Cent, Young Jeezy, and Lil Wayne crippled hip hop creativity from the standpoint that up and coming rappers feel the need to emulate that style.
What I do see as a positive is the fact that the internet has allowed movements such as Grind Time Battles to grow into a nationwide situation.
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
Too funny!! I was a lurker when that happened, LMAO.
So LDB what side are YOU on, are you satisfied with the subject matter and caliber of artist out now?
Im only going to address these points...If you agree with everything LDB says thats cool too and before we go any futher with this let me say that I speak for myself and I got much respect for what you're doing in the game (I've seen your other posts).
1. What is underground? To me we're talking about 2 different entities. To me underground scenes are just that...under-ground. There is no REAL market for underground so that kinda takes care of that, I mean if it's truely underground then major radio won't effect it right?
2. You said "there are a few guys who are choosing to rap about their actual life and they are being praised heavily (almost over-rated) for that choice" . The guys that are choosing to rap about their actual life are the guys that I was refering to in the original post when I said that Im liking the trend that Im seeing. "they are being praised heavily (almost over-rated)" to me that means there is a market for that, it also means that somebody is listening and liking what they hear...its being accepted, feel me?
3. You said "What I do see as a positive is the fact that the internet has allowed movements such as Grind Time Battles to grow into a nationwide situation" That is what I was refering to when I said that if the performance tax passes, these are alternatives to listening to mainstream music. At some point, you gotta accept change or die with the old way of doing things. The way I see it, hip hop didn't start in the mainstream and it was alive, it can go back to not being mainstream and survive. Im sorry but I can't agree with radio or mainstream being the one true and only source that will keep hip hop alive. Maybe Im just wishful thinking but thats where hope for anything begins in my book.
Let me say it again, I respect what you do so don't take me wrong on this. I love this game, I've been it a long time but hip hop was based on taking blows and I would be really disappointed if hip hop doesn't continue to fight against the odds and survive this. I could be wrong but its what Im standing on and I'll take the fall when the time comes.
Maybe Im taking both of you wrong, if so, my bad but as you can see Im a fighter and this is a good healthy debate IMO. To be honest with you, Im hoping that you and LDB can convince me otherwise but it hasnt happened yet.
~dac
But even grindtime is about to go pop! I know kap kallus and mad illz personally, when they come down to broward im who they call for a venue. They just partnered with youtbe and they got a couple more contracts on deck.
Bottom line...If you are not satisfied with clear channel programing support your local scene! Start a movement and create a market!
Bottom line...If you are not satisfied with clear channel programing support your local scene! Start a movement and create a market!
shadeed
Go Digital or Go Home
ill o.g.
LDB is right in regards to the Performance Tax, whether I agree with it or not. It will have a monumental impact on hip hop music as a genre (not culture). If corporations don't find a new way to make money from hip hop after the Performance Tax, then hip hop will become the new disco.
It's ok that you like the new direction of certain artists, it doesn't mean that the entire game is shifting that way which is what a resurgence would be defined as.
#2.) I said: My opinion is that I don't see a resurgence of "real hip-hop" music overall. If anything, there are a few guys who are choosing to rap about their actual life and they are being praised heavily (almost over-rated) for that choice.
From what I see, most "new rappers" who are considered a "breath of fresh air to the game"
for their "subject matter" and "realistic views on life" are given an extra push by independent media outlets (bloggers/sites) because they strongly dislike the music currently dominating, not because of their music is groundbreaking in anyway, shape, or form. It's almost like Revenge of the Bloggers. It's their way of maintaining "balance", almost like a NBA who gives a team a "make up call" for something that happened earlier in the game.
Just because fans praise, doesn't mean they will actually buy, and the majority of new artists have ridiculously low sales despite "internet buzz". Music is a business driven by numbers and before you see a resurgence, you have to look at what the Vets in the game are doing and from what I can see David Banner's new album w/ 9th Wonder and Young Jeezy's last album were the only few mainstream releases with any sort of socially conscious or reality rap point of view that would be considered a departure from their normal sound.
#1.) What is Underground? There are many different definitions to that. I point to the era of the Soundbombing/Rawkus time period as the last great era of underground hip-hop.
I was "classically trained" as an Underground Afficianado by being the "News Guy" over at
Undergroundhiphop.com (www.ughh.com) which at the time, was the #1 hip hop site
in the world in terms of active members. Still a very credible site and hip hop institution.
When I mention Underground, that's my reference point.
The G-Unit/Smack DVD era was so powerful that it killed off the underground in NYC in that the artists felt that in order to "get on", they had to sound like 50 Cent.
Other markets such as Houston have maintained super powerful underground scenes but many others remained clones.
Radio/Performance Tax has an impact on the Underground too. You have to realize that the terms Underground and Independent are in direct relation to radio play and major label affiliation.
3.) Radio is a big part of the current equation but of course there will be other outlets that will become more prominent. You can also look to see corporate ownership of all major internet radio platform either directly by the major labels or by companies affiliated with them.
shadeed
Go Digital or Go Home
ill o.g.
GrindTime will eventually land bigger deals, more exposure, and there will be worldwide events. Hopefully it goes the route of DMC Championships and becomes a major path to success for Battle MCs.
I think in their case, the exposure will help them land bigger/higher profile battles, which is good for the sport.
People aren't as Zombiefied as some of you may think. People like what they like.
I'm on NO SIDE...I'm a DJ. If it weren't for mainstream music packing the clubs I'd lose a source of income. Let's not get it twisted....let's keep it ALL THE WAY REAL. Most of what some of you consider "real hip hop" is not what club goers dance to. Very little if any DANCING goes on to that type music. That's some listen to bob ya head type shit. My postition is this.....THERE'S ROOM FOR IT ALL. Stop blaming the imbalance on the artist that are eating off mainstream sales, shows etc. It's not there fault. If I want to here subject matter I gravitate to an artist who brings it...if I want to dance and see some fine ass women moving ass it's mainstream that I look too.
And please do me a favor....I just speak my mind. I'm not catching any feelings over this subject or any member here. It's funny as hell to me...lol...dudes hit me up by email and phone when I'm not around to DO ME, but when I come back and do me it's the same ole song and dance. There's a reason I've been GHOST around here and that's one of them. ILLMUZIK chat doesn't pay me or my bills so trust and believe it's never that serious to me.
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
I'm not talking about business or you as a DJ. I mean personally are you satisfied with artists today? or have you "out grown" "Hiphop/Rap"?
I'm a dj...as long as I am a dj I'll never out grow hip hop. Music in some form or another is my life. DJ, home studio and Madden 2010...that's all I do....lmao
I prepare in the beginning of the week for what I do on the weekend and in between there's family producing and XBOX. I see how much people enjoy music...I see the smiles on there faces. I see when certain songs come on how there eyes light up. I just love music man....in it's simplest form it makes people happy. From the stanky leg to the Mobb Deeps Quiet storm...it moves peoples souls. Even in a recession. That's powerful!
U should get like that when you hear "head, shoulders, knees and toes" with that super sized water melon you got sitting on top of your kneck. Can't even bob your head from the fear of straining your kneck.....lmao
shadeed
Go Digital or Go Home
ill o.g.
In what way do you feel that hip hop has fallen out of the mainstream spotlight?
In many ways, hip hop has infiltrated the mainstream.
Jay-Z just performed at the World Series, Kanye West/Taylor Swift was one of the bigger recent stories, Wyclef will win some Humanitarian award for his efforts in Haiti, and for some reason they let Lil Wayne participate in a We Are the World Tribute.
you're right bro, hip hop is still alive and well in mainstream...your point made.
peace,
dac
i gotta say i like what's happening right now. i didn't hear that much high quality stuff in years. but it's small indie labels carrying the torch imo. cats like exile and fashawn, kev b. and damu, jazzy sports in japan or melting pot music in germany, jazz lib in france etc. that's the sound i'm into now, because the music has that same feel of originality and exclusiveness to it that made me appreciate hiphop in the 90s.
i still also dig (f.e.) duck down releases and the occasional jay-z track, but both their genres are in a dilemma; mainstream doesn't experiment no more, if a production is not a guaranteed blockbuster, it won't make it to an album, which makes any jay-z record totally predictable from beginning to end. then again labels like duck down, they put out nice (!) records, but soundwise...they are stuck, nothing new, never ever. too traditionalist maybe. but again, this might be only my perception.
i still also dig (f.e.) duck down releases and the occasional jay-z track, but both their genres are in a dilemma; mainstream doesn't experiment no more, if a production is not a guaranteed blockbuster, it won't make it to an album, which makes any jay-z record totally predictable from beginning to end. then again labels like duck down, they put out nice (!) records, but soundwise...they are stuck, nothing new, never ever. too traditionalist maybe. but again, this might be only my perception.
manguino
Pressure Makes Diamonds
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
there's a lot of talk about going back to hip hop's roots, but people aren't understanding this - most of today's mainstream was BRED in the underground. gucci mane, lil wayne, plies, ludacris, young jeezy, fabolous - ALL of these people started local, pushed out mixtapes and then got major label pushing. people are obviously connecting with these rappers on some level. the whole "hip hop is dead" mentality needs to die, that shit has been around at every turn of every decade, so let's move on.
mainstream will always have terrible acts, but the best of it has always reflected good music and new trends. what sound is big in rap right now? the atlanta trap sound that shawtty red and drumma boi made famous. if that's not cutting edge for american popular music, then what is? and it's the same deal on the R&B side, tricky stewart & the dream have dominated the market and the last thing i'd call them is traditional.
mainstream will always have terrible acts, but the best of it has always reflected good music and new trends. what sound is big in rap right now? the atlanta trap sound that shawtty red and drumma boi made famous. if that's not cutting edge for american popular music, then what is? and it's the same deal on the R&B side, tricky stewart & the dream have dominated the market and the last thing i'd call them is traditional.