-
Beat This!The next Beat This! Competition is from November 27-28th!
- Status
dahkter
Ill Muzikoligist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 4
I agree about 98%.
On the one hand, there's a lot of good engineers out there recording some really good music. On the other hand, overcompressed music fatigues the ear and leaves you feeling kind of annoyed instead of intrigued. Maybe you like it on the first listen, but it's not something you're gonna go back to and listen to for subtleties and details.
IMO, Hip hop examples of great songs, not overcompressed:
Kool G Rap - Road to the riches
PE - Bring the Noise
Tribe - verses from the abstract
IMO, Some rock songs, great with little or no compression:
Led Zep - the ocean
Pink Floyd - Breathe
What four out of five in them have in common is at one point in the song people are talking or singing, then bam, the beat drops and hits you like a ton of bricks. I haven't heard many tracks recently that have that sort of dynamic...
My two.
On the one hand, there's a lot of good engineers out there recording some really good music. On the other hand, overcompressed music fatigues the ear and leaves you feeling kind of annoyed instead of intrigued. Maybe you like it on the first listen, but it's not something you're gonna go back to and listen to for subtleties and details.
IMO, Hip hop examples of great songs, not overcompressed:
Kool G Rap - Road to the riches
PE - Bring the Noise
Tribe - verses from the abstract
IMO, Some rock songs, great with little or no compression:
Led Zep - the ocean
Pink Floyd - Breathe
What four out of five in them have in common is at one point in the song people are talking or singing, then bam, the beat drops and hits you like a ton of bricks. I haven't heard many tracks recently that have that sort of dynamic...
My two.
Hypnotist
Ear Manipulator
ill o.g.
First of all, this is a topic that has come up for years and years about music "getting louder" in general. We're talking about compression here, not just "loudness", and you notice it most of all when you take a CD out of the player and the radio blasts at you, when you say to yourself, "shit... if only I could be THAT loud."
In defense of open, I've been doing my petty attempt at mixing for over 12 years, and noticed along those years how much "louder" music in general has gotten, simply due to the stereo compressor.
Today, there are many many [old school] engineers who argue about production not being as good today, because 1) today's engineers slam the levels so that there's no dynamics in the song, 2) the listeners' ears get fatigue from listening to an entire album and 3) today's engineers are just lazy, and they may resent the fact they had to do it all manually (my opinion).
I'll say it once, and I'll say it again... There is no "master" button. A practiced mix engineer will say that a better mixed song is one that was actually "mixed" BEFORE it goes to stereo compression. The old school engineers are simply stating that it DOESN'T NEED any stereo compression, especially if the instruments were compressed individually before the final mix anyway.
I agree with Open. If you listen to the album that's on his avatar, it's rough and crazy, and there are peaks and valleys that just jump out at you. Now that album--36 Chambers, Wu Tang-- (in case he's changed it by now) was produced by cats who used 4-track recorders and recorded a lot of that live, where you can hear the punch-in and outs, so that can either be a bad example, or the perfect example of what should or shouldn't sound good. The reason it sounds good is the same reason it sounds like shit: If you analyze it, you'll hear all the fkd up levels and how things are tossed together in this little melting pot of sound, old sample vs new vocal with little-to-no mixing technique. On the other hand, the effortlessness of the production allows you to throw out your analytical side of your mind, and you actually listen to the words in some sort of hypnotic, army-type-left-right sort of swing to what we used to call hip hop.
In the end, it doesn't matter if you overcompress or not. If your shit sounds tight, your shit sounds tight. You may uncover some methods that you may not be able to reproduce, and go platinum, while magazines interview you, while you bullshit your way through answering most directly of what your perfect recipe was, all the while not having a fucking clue to what you even did right.
But that's just my opinion.
P.S. I said this quieter than the last guy.
In defense of open, I've been doing my petty attempt at mixing for over 12 years, and noticed along those years how much "louder" music in general has gotten, simply due to the stereo compressor.
Today, there are many many [old school] engineers who argue about production not being as good today, because 1) today's engineers slam the levels so that there's no dynamics in the song, 2) the listeners' ears get fatigue from listening to an entire album and 3) today's engineers are just lazy, and they may resent the fact they had to do it all manually (my opinion).
I'll say it once, and I'll say it again... There is no "master" button. A practiced mix engineer will say that a better mixed song is one that was actually "mixed" BEFORE it goes to stereo compression. The old school engineers are simply stating that it DOESN'T NEED any stereo compression, especially if the instruments were compressed individually before the final mix anyway.
I agree with Open. If you listen to the album that's on his avatar, it's rough and crazy, and there are peaks and valleys that just jump out at you. Now that album--36 Chambers, Wu Tang-- (in case he's changed it by now) was produced by cats who used 4-track recorders and recorded a lot of that live, where you can hear the punch-in and outs, so that can either be a bad example, or the perfect example of what should or shouldn't sound good. The reason it sounds good is the same reason it sounds like shit: If you analyze it, you'll hear all the fkd up levels and how things are tossed together in this little melting pot of sound, old sample vs new vocal with little-to-no mixing technique. On the other hand, the effortlessness of the production allows you to throw out your analytical side of your mind, and you actually listen to the words in some sort of hypnotic, army-type-left-right sort of swing to what we used to call hip hop.
In the end, it doesn't matter if you overcompress or not. If your shit sounds tight, your shit sounds tight. You may uncover some methods that you may not be able to reproduce, and go platinum, while magazines interview you, while you bullshit your way through answering most directly of what your perfect recipe was, all the while not having a fucking clue to what you even did right.
But that's just my opinion.
P.S. I said this quieter than the last guy.
Big Tone
You done fucked up
ill o.g.
radio stations compress shit too. they want theyre stations to be louder than theyre competition. just listen to the difference between hot 97 and power 105 in NY
oh and sanova i didnt know you was working with track burnas. lolololol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_Burnas
oh and sanova i didnt know you was working with track burnas. lolololol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_Burnas
Sanova
Guess Who's Back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 9
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!1oneone!!
yea, supposedly i'm a "partner" in his "certified" LLC business.
then he was a trunkthumpa wit collosus, lmao and then he tried to fuck with spanish, grafik, and relic. dude was a trip!
Lazy Eyes
The Beat Konduktah
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 7
Let me get this straight:
I've been away for a few months.. but not a thing has changed.
When i left, it was Open Mind aka Big Rob spamming the Illmuzik community with nonsense opinions and newbie talk.
And now, a few months later: OM is still hurting the community more then he helps people get better..
It's people like him, who are overposting that scare folks away from illmuzik.
There i said it, now shoot me..
Peace, One Love
Lazy
I've been away for a few months.. but not a thing has changed.
When i left, it was Open Mind aka Big Rob spamming the Illmuzik community with nonsense opinions and newbie talk.
And now, a few months later: OM is still hurting the community more then he helps people get better..
It's people like him, who are overposting that scare folks away from illmuzik.
There i said it, now shoot me..
Peace, One Love
Lazy
O
open mind
Guest
god damn! open your own topic motherfucka if u wanna diss me dont BULLSHIT this threat right here.
enuff said.beefed out
S
Svenghali
Guest
Scott Storch is highly offended by that comment. He vows to have more songs with 808 claps than Lil' Jon. No joke son.
ohhh and by the way .. ur favorite producer whoever he is has used an 808 ... even premier has layered his kicks at one time or another with an 808 kick to give it more bump... listen closely to the chronic 1 and 2001 .. 808s all over the place layered in the kicks .. kanye west.. just blaze .. hi-tek.... alchemist...u name em theyve used an 808 at some point
O
open mind
Guest
i dont think fury has someting against "layerd" 808 kicks with other shitness i think he has something against dat BOOOOOOOOM BOOOOOOOOM CLAAAAAP u feel me?
to make a short story shorter...... DONT PHUK WITH MA HOMIE FURY!!!
one love fam.
to make a short story shorter...... DONT PHUK WITH MA HOMIE FURY!!!
one love fam.
Sanova
Guess Who's Back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 9
Lol^, i guess.... suspect..
this thread took a horrible turn for the worst. Not anyones fault in particular, but people want to attack others instead of just talkin bout the topic. thats wack.
O
open mind
Guest
mhhh... nova u right thats sad. ok iam a start again.
plz future producers dont overcompress your wonderfull created piece of musik just because the competition do so to get a louder sound.overcompression kills any dynamic in your music and music without dynmics is really not how it should sound because the diffrence in the dynamics makes it enjoyable and suprising for the listener.compress if u want your mix a bit louder but dont use it as main priority the music should stand out not the overall loudness.
what is fam thinking is it worth to get as loud as possible while suffering audio quality or not? IMO. NO!
plz future producers dont overcompress your wonderfull created piece of musik just because the competition do so to get a louder sound.overcompression kills any dynamic in your music and music without dynmics is really not how it should sound because the diffrence in the dynamics makes it enjoyable and suprising for the listener.compress if u want your mix a bit louder but dont use it as main priority the music should stand out not the overall loudness.
what is fam thinking is it worth to get as loud as possible while suffering audio quality or not? IMO. NO!
On Topic, wouldnt using a limiter on an already clipping sound cause it to futher sound like shit?
I meam suppose I import a waveform and its all solid and distorted, If I apply a limiter to it, you mean thats gonna fix it but keep it loud?
I bring this up after reading the wikpedia artice.
And the title of the thread is what made it go bad..
I meam suppose I import a waveform and its all solid and distorted, If I apply a limiter to it, you mean thats gonna fix it but keep it loud?
I bring this up after reading the wikpedia artice.
And the title of the thread is what made it go bad..
more than this thread .. that seems to be the general attitude of alot of people on this site period... the problem with overcompressing is generally not coming from the producers ... its coming from the A&R and execs... the producers arent the ones squashing the mixes its the engineers under orders from the A&Rs/exec types .... of course this is not always the case but simple fact is the label decides the final product thats released, not the producer... they are the ones with the dough$$. So until the general public starts caring that there muisc is squashed(which unfortunatly they dont give a shit.. people just listen to their ipods wherre the quality is already shitty) and demands dynamic music we are pretty much powerless to decide or change anything ... there are many great mixes that were ruined by overcompressing that had nothing to do with the producers.... jay-zs black album sounded horrible .. distortion evrywhere .. when they interviewd just blaze he said it himself the mastering wasnt good... its not like he just sent them the track that way its how they processed it that made it sound like shit..
so bottom line its its the labels that need to change not the producers
Sanova
Guess Who's Back
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 9
Word, well said.
open mind i agree with a lot of the things u said, just a couple thoughts on this thread in general..
808 is the best drum machine in history. whoever mentioned dre using it is right, the big thing is that dudes like dre and hi tek, they know how to mix the 808 kick down enough where its not that huge boom. speaking of compression my biggest problem these days is that dudes let their 808 booms distort too much, i love a huge boom if its been tweaked nicely and it fits the song. that and dudes who throw one completely untweaked 808 clap without anything layered on a track, yeah, i agree, is a problem.
compression isnt to blame for everything in this thread. first off listening to the radio all day hurting ur ears has little to do w/ compression; it has to do with the fact that fm is a shi* way of transmitting audio as it adds a ton of static and noise to the sound. yes a lot of stuff these days is overcompressed but it also has a lot to do with the fact that you mention a neve analog summer to most rap producers and they look at you and shrug; if you are mixing in the box an analog sum is essential for getting that non digital sound and hardly anyone except for the top producers know to do this anymore, thats why your old analog records sound so much better.
808 is the best drum machine in history. whoever mentioned dre using it is right, the big thing is that dudes like dre and hi tek, they know how to mix the 808 kick down enough where its not that huge boom. speaking of compression my biggest problem these days is that dudes let their 808 booms distort too much, i love a huge boom if its been tweaked nicely and it fits the song. that and dudes who throw one completely untweaked 808 clap without anything layered on a track, yeah, i agree, is a problem.
compression isnt to blame for everything in this thread. first off listening to the radio all day hurting ur ears has little to do w/ compression; it has to do with the fact that fm is a shi* way of transmitting audio as it adds a ton of static and noise to the sound. yes a lot of stuff these days is overcompressed but it also has a lot to do with the fact that you mention a neve analog summer to most rap producers and they look at you and shrug; if you are mixing in the box an analog sum is essential for getting that non digital sound and hardly anyone except for the top producers know to do this anymore, thats why your old analog records sound so much better.
CyrusPhantasm
Member
ill o.g.
I was gonna add to this thread............... But why???
- Status