How Risky Is Paying Dues???

[Equality 7-2521]

Watsup everyone..

Please digest this short story and help me out if you can..

Ever since I was 7 years old, I wanted to be a professional tennis player. For 10 years, I lived for tennis....I skiped school to train, spent shit loads on coaching/travelling/equipment etc., sacraficed a normal social life by doing home schooling and generally busted my balls every day even when it was raining.

I got a ranking of #10 in my country......and along comes Hiphop.

I had already been listening to Hiphop for a couple of years but when I turned 17, I bought a set of turntables from a newspaper and begun to really develop a love for the whole culture of Hiphop. Soon I found Hiphop was fullfilling my soul more than chasing the yellow ball.

I recently gave up tennis and am now spending all my time making Hiphop music. My friends think Ive gone cookoo. I have thrown away all those years of dedication I put into tennis only to start from the very beginning in a totally different area. It was something I HAD TO DO though. You people understand that EVERYBODY'S dream is to make a living from what they love the most.

What worries me is that there seems to be a big chance that I will never be able to make a living from this. I believe in myself but I also have somewhat of an understanding of how the underground Hiphop system works. Ive read countless interviews of my favourite artist and they themselves say that they are only just getting by.....and they have already payed their dues. To complement that, there are planty of talented producers here who are making a dope product but arnt making money from it because the market is small.

Dont get me wrong, Its not about the money for me. I understand music is its own reward.....but I want to be able to support a family later on in life too.

I hope that didnt sound like a whinge

Please, tell me what YOU think....

 

[Ash Holmz]

i feel you man, im 22, one class away from graduatin from college..my parents think im fucin crazy to be wantin to be a producer and shit.. but yo its what i really want to do with my life.... I feel if your focused you can do anything.. i think alot of the problem with artists strugglin is that they depend on other people too much..they spend mad long hoping they get signed..hoping this happens..hoping for that...i feel the way im gonna break out is gonna be completely on my own, on da grind, hard at my shit..i say go somwhere by yourself for a long while...sit down wit a pen and write out a step by step plan of how you plan to get to where u want to be...there are mad resources on the net that tell u what u need to do..The hardest part is jusrt gettin people too hear ur shit... in the end i feel that if you can gather up a following of people who really feel ur music..even if its just a few..then those few can turn too many..im in the same boat as u man.......another thhing alot of producers and artist get burned by business..they come in the game with little knowledge of what there doin business wise...again there are sources on the net u can find about stuff like that so you can be more prepared..........I dont know how it is in Australian hip hop but in the US, THE BIGGEST PRODUCERS ARENT THE BEST ONES...THEY ARE THE ONES WITH THE BEST BUSINESS SENSE (look at master P, P Diddy, Mannie Fresh and Baby of cash money, i dont know anyone in the hood that bumps any of their cd's but they got dough up the ass, and the music is like 1/3 of it..u got to market it the right way)...really try and be a student of the business as well as the music.

well im through talkin im interested on what other cats got to say bout this subject.

 

[N.U.G.]

Whatup Mr Messenger,

It's good to see another Aussie up in here. I live in Sydney, where are you at man?

From your post I can see there a couple of things that are concerning you and I'm happy to offer my advice to you.

Firstly, if hip-hop is what you're passionate about, then follow your heart and go with it. Don't worry about what other people say yo. Just do what YOU think is right.

Secondly, make hip-hop music for the fun and enjoyment first and foremost. Focus on having a good time AND strive to become the best you can be. It may take a while but if you become an excellent hip-hop producer or DJ, the money will come along with it. I would also recommend you study wealth as well, so that you can learn to make money work hard for you, instead of you working hard for money.

Thirdly, although a lot of music producers do not make very much money for their efforts, there are also MANY who make very good money and there are some that make incredible money. Realise that there are great oppurtunities for you to make the music you want AND earn good money from it.

Please post a reply, or PM me if you have any questions or comments.

peace

 

[soundboy2]

Their are so many broke producers that have talent, I love muisc , but I love myself more. So I refuse to put all my eggs in one basket. My advice would be to keep working extremelly hard. But keep a side thing going on. Don;t have an all or nothing attitude.. Even if you don't make it big,have other avenues so that you can eat. Like since you already spent so much time in tennis , teach kids on the side, Do anything but just don;t rely on this shady business 100%. But like Holmzini said ,put your plan on paper, thats so important.

 

[MadScientist]

its 99.99% business and 00.01% music ....... It will be a tough road if you think otherwise ....... it used to be 95% business and 5% music but times have changed and Hip-Hop has gotten more commercial. The major labels are holding the game down so Independant Labels, producers and artist can't get in the game that easy. The reason for it is because there are too many producers and artist that think they can make dope beats and rap. When in reality they suck! .... All they do is flood the industry and the market and make it harder for people with real talent to get in. I even hear it in some of these Producer forums. It makes me sick that people can't step outside themselves for 5 min and realize they have no talent. I know some rappers out here where I live and they think whatever they do is dope...... but they really suck and the only reason they think there dope is because its them. Get real ...... Not everyone has it ...... don't ask your friends for there opinion ...they will lie ...don't ask your MOM or your DAD ....because they will lie too. You need to ask someone who doesn't know you and doesn't know its your beat or you rapping. Then you will get some honest feedback. If you feel you got it then go for it .....but make sure you have what it takes or else your just making it harder for the rest of us and for real Hop-Hop to survive.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Lemme break it down for you.......hip hop is great and production is challenging but do not quit your day job or even consider it ......at one point in time b4 everyone and their mother had the means to produce there was a small chance you could get signed by some major or sell a few tracks for big dollars every now and then to eek out a living...only the priviledged had an mpc and knew how to make a track so the stock price for hot production was pretty high but the majority of labels are not paying the big dollars for entry level producer's tracks and you'd better hope that the track you sell makes the final cut for a project even if you sell the track.........but lets be honest here.......every block has a producer nowadays.......I mean it is easier for anyone to make the quality type tracks that about 5 years ago wasn't possible, the thing is with that there are good and bad aspects to it......the bad thing is that with sooooo many producers it sort of put a level of novelty in the craft nowadays and hot tracks are a dime a dozen........the good side is that maybe you can work with a hot indie label or establish your own and make a dent in your area with the artists you produce for and maybe after some streetlevel sales, mixtapes or whatever you get heard.....other than that the chance are slim that even 1 producer out of 10 will get their material on a major album or artist track....

 

[God]

Don't take this the wrong way.

Continue playing tennis, especially if you achieved a No. 10 ranking in your country. Obviously, you are good at that. With fame from tennis you could use your connections to delve into hiphop at a later date.

There are a lot of people who spend all their life trying to make it in music, move to London, Los Angeles, or Tokyo, and end up bankrupt, tired, unfulfilled, or dead. AND THESE ARE/WERE VERY TALENTED MUSICIANS.

I see it happen often.

How many tennis players would want to be in your place? To have your ranking?

Think about it it, pursue a pro tennis career, where you'll meet people involved in all fields (look at Andy Roddick and Mandy Moore.) It's a different strata of society that may still cater to your hiphop needs. The connections you'll make as a tennis pro will aid you tremendously. I think you'll be happier to have done so.

Sincerely,
God

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Thanks everyone. Replies have been much appreciated.

Holmzini: I agree. Writing down goals is a must. Im going to try to get my little following and study the business side of this shit. (yeah the internet is the dopest resourse.)

goldeneyeoutlaw: Ill pm u.

soundboy2: Good advise. Sometimes I feel though that I am so far behind that I have to put all my eggs in one basket. I used to coach juniors. Maybe I might look into it again.

MadScientist: Hopefully I will some beats completed soon and you more experianced people can let me know if im wasting my time.

bigdmakintrax: cheers, ill look into indie lables and establishing my own. i have a little money to work with so maybe that will come in handy.

god: Thanks, but i think the passion I once had for tennis has left me and I no longer could conjure the dedication needed to make money from it. (tennis is really tough too, few make it)

Any more comments from anyone are very welcome.

 

[JPeg]

"It may take a while but if you become an excellent hip-hop producer or DJ, the money will come along with it."

hate to say it but that shit aint true loads of artists with talent, skill and good tracks get no money and no exposure so dont count on that idea.

me im doing this hip hop thing from the view of an enthusiatic fan i aint quitting my day job cause i know the kind of music that sells is not the kind i like to make.

But most def do 4 self is the best policy dont be sitting around waiting to get recognised

 

[vitaminman]

Hey,

1. DON'T GIVE UP YOUR DAY JOB. Commercial music is an industry where 95% of the money goes to 5% of the artists, the other musicians are left working at late-night diners or record shops (source: Chalene Noakes, Warner Bros./Reprise Records and panelist at the Austin Music Foundation http://www.austinmusicfoundation.org/).

With this in mind, I think it is almost suicidal to make the big plunge into trying to make it big. I can't tell you how many people I come across who work at late night diners and record shops for crap pay waiting for their bar band to 'make the big time'. The music industry is riddled with false promises and people trying to take advantage of you, our own group has been victimised by people talking big and not producing the goods.

Although I cannot speak from experience, there are people out there who have a balance of 'normal' work which supplements their music interests during their free time...they start out slowly and see if they can make any success of it. There are enough low-profile opportunities like independent labels and technologies such as the internet which could possibly offer a route to fame in a way which wouldn't have been possible a few years ago...all while maintaining a job during the daytime.

2. There are other aspects of music/audio which can earn you a living without ever releasing a single record.

Think of it like this: if you push yourself hard to learn your craft and perfect it, even if you don't have any success in the commercial world, you still have a ton of skills which could lead you down other paths...

Story:

A colleague decided one day that he liked music, so he taught himself to play guitar and bass, then played in a few bands. Next he got into dj'ing, making mix tapes for friends, doing house parties...when he got tired of playing everyone else's stuff, he got some synths and learned how to sequence.

After he finished university (with a basic liberal arts degree, nothing to do with music or recording) he started learning about computers to record his own music. He got more and more into computers and the 'media' side of them and started making training videos at the company where he worked.

With this experience with audio/video plus an understanding how the computer functioned with it, he got hired by a company involved with multimedia. While there he got to know the ins and outs of computers and more professional audio/video stuff.

He now runs a small studio at home, does audio consulting, networking, and runs the a/v department at a local high school.

He's not rich, but doing as well as the next guy...car, house, rarely has to worry too much about money. The important thing is that he's HAPPY because he's working in a field which 1. he's good at, 2. he enjoys working in, and 3. affords him a comfortable lifestyle.

How many people can say that about their jobs?

I've seen some opportunities in the broadcast industry: radio stations need guys to do 'imaging', which is basically designing promos, ads, spots, etc. and producing them on DAW's to be played on the air. A lot of radio people are afraid of technology and are happy to let someone else do the recording and editing. They use these expensive sound libraries for foley and music beds...they have to some from SOMEWHERE, why not you?


Although no one knows what he does for a living (although we can probably guess), the almighty God may have some stories about people in the music industry who never made it big but have great jobs doing other things and are making comfortable livings of them...comments?


Good luck!

Nick

 

[JPeg]

In case you haven't found out yet, I'm going to let you in on the harsh reality of life: no amount of talent makes it easy to break into the business.

There are waiters, waitresses, secretaries, bartenders, government employees, fry cooks, stock clerks, and auto mechanics here in nashville who can outplay and outperform most of the top 20 artists out there.

a quote from another message board on a similar subject which i felt was relavent to this talk

 

[God]

SONY MUSIC STUDIOS
11-19 HARGRAVE STREET EAST SYDNEY AUSTRALIA PH: +61 2 9383 6320 FAX: +61 2 9383 6467

Give them a call and try to be a go-fer for them. Get your foot in the door. If they reject you, try another studio. See what it's really like.

They have also got one of the best live rooms in Australia (the picture is a bit flashy though):

 

[highlite80]

so thats what the house of the lord looks like,i knew it!!!!!!

 

[Equality 7-2521]

vitaminman: Thanks for the tips I dont actually have a day job. Maybe I should see if i can work at the record store just to start out. Its sounds like studying the industry is a really important thing to do at this stage.

God: Sorry I dont understand exactly what I should be asking Sony. Keep in mind that I dont have any finished music...only stuff in the works.

Cheers everyone.....im still checking the thread

 

[God]

God: Sorry I dont understand exactly what I should be asking Sony. Keep in mind that I dont have any finished music...only stuff in the works.

Mr Messenger:

I am telling you to try to get involved as an intern, or a runner, for a studio. The studio that I posted, are Sony Music Studios located in Sydney. Perhaps you live in Perth, I'm sure there are decent studios there as well. However, the point is, I am not asking you to go to Sony as an artist or as a producer to get signed. You don't have to have finishd work, and you don't even have to go to Sony Music Studios at all. Just find a studio to gain experience.

The point is to find a respectable studio to donate your time at. There you will learn what recording is REALLY about. What are the underlying mechanics of production, by watching experienced producers and engineers at their job. Of course you will be expected to fetch them coffee, pizza at 3 A.M., or drive to an artists's house to get their girlfriend's cat for her while she's listening to her boyfriend in the control room. But all the conversations you will listen to, and the way the industry works, will be stated in that control room. An eavesdropper learns a lot about what REALLY goes on. How producers don't show up to earn more money to clock in more hours, etc.

But you'll be able to develop relationships with these people and in turn they will teach you and help you the craft. If you're a social person, it'll be easy,and will help you. The music biz is about relationships. A lot of people don't simply get hired because of their merits, but a balance of merit and a friendship with some individual. So if you work with an engineer (which will be your best friend there) he'll remember you, and say: "Hey, Mr. Messenger can help me record this project." You'll already have a competitive advantage over others.

Just make sure to have a good attitude and expect long hours of hard work.

Find a studio, and see if you can work there for free (in the beginning), and be a runner or a go-fer, it's a small step in the right direction.

Sincerely,
God

 

[Equality 7-2521]

Cheers heaps God. I get it now.

r u Aussie?

Peace