Houston, We have a problem...IMO

[dacalion]

Its pretty much a given that there are plenty of songs out there to flip, twist and remix any way you want coming from a producers point of view. Even those songs that have already been manipulated to death have potentially unused sections awaiting for somebody to chop up. The problem I see is that there are no more real r&b bands coming out with new material. Just like pollution, global warming, and everything else, it will eventually catch up and hurt us. To some degree, I feel like its happening now. The public dictates what is popular but the public is also guided and influenced by the media and the hot artists that make new songs. Its like a lose-lose situation in my opinion. I see alot of talent here at ill and I know that theres more in other places but I hope we come up with something new. In the future what will we be sampling? Kanye? 50? Jay-Z? Everything evolves and revolves, why hasn't Hip Hop Music Production in general kept up? Yes we've done alot of new things but the supply is running out. What are your thoughts?

MAN ON FIRE

 

[Relic]

Your right, I wonder what happened to love songs too in R&B, now they just jump to the fuckin..
There arent like any good R&B "bands" either...just single artists.
But I agree with you more or less.

 

[LDB]

Personally, I don't think hip hop is even old enough to worry about that. How many years has jazz,RnB, RocknRoll,Soul music, Funk etc etc been around? There's no way we've dug up everything there is to dig! IMO the ratio of pruducers that really dig deep as opposed to those that just skim the surrace is like 1 in 1000.

I think the future looks bright for those that sample!

Producers are going to be forced to dig to the core of the earth, so to speak, in order to find those jewels. Not to mention not too many diggers stray from jazz and RnB. In the future dudes will be diggin' up folk music, bluegrass, etc ect (I know "some" already do) I'm just saying that if you want to stand out in the world of a "bazillion" producers and still sample, you'll have to get off your lazy ass and use two sholves and a backhoe!

 

[Relic]

In fact one day we all may have to *gasp* compose...Noooo! lol

 

[joeburnem]

But, Hip Hop is an hybrid of all that other stuff. I think it will have some sort of effect.

Then you could argue ... Jazz (Straight Ahead Jazz) has been dead for years. In the early '90's Hip Hop groups like the Digable Planets, ATCQ and US3 revived an interest and inspired jazz cats to create new music.

 

[Relic]

^ Nice .. Thats True...

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Naw I think the point of what Dacalion might be getting at is that, all of the inventory of WAX and sample worthy REAL MUSIC pretty much came out and there will not be a treasure trove of inventory like that ever produced again by QUALITY LIVE BANDS, lots of Jazz out there but he might be speaking of the DOPE melodic RnB with Strings, Horns, Orchestration and last but not least....DOPE DRUMS...

I see where he is headed and i thought about the same thing a lot of times, I feel like a lot of shit gets wasted nowadays...I really dont agree that hip hop is that young LOL...... its the fact that being creative and still keeping it hip hop is an art in itself...only thing that slowed the wax melting was the heavy put into play Club and South beats that dont rely heavily on samples... but just like oil reserves wax will definitely become rare, I think there is still a lot left to flip but there are so many non capable heads completely ruining a perfect record by sampling the loop and leaving it at that and then got the nerve to say yo, imma dope producer LOL , naw I will never ever give props to anyone for that when its straight up theft of another mans art when you bring absolutely no creativity, soul or signature sound except they might have been the first to turn that shit into a wave and upload it to soundclick and get a bunch of, that's dope, that's hot feedback from the musically uninformed of where the sample came from....

 

[Relic]

Well thats a wake up call on many levels

 

[joeburnem]

So consider yourselves blessed to be one of the final generations to enjoy all this.

DAMN!!!! When you think about it ... It's like what the western pioneers of the 1800's did to the buffalo. Wiped them damn near extinct.

 

[LDB]

It's so easy to preach the doom and gloom of a music. That's kind of a sign of you either being old or old minded. There were many genres of music before hip hops conception. And it is fairly young...30 something is not old at all. What kills a music is it's inability to evolve. Music is like fashion....it comes and goes. When old negro spirituals evolved into gospel people preached the end. When gospel evolved into soul music they preached the end. When soul evolved into funk and funk into RnB the same was said!


The bottom line is this. Music lives on and people die off! Nobody can predict the future so who's to say that all the for mentioned styles won't come back better and stronger than ever?

Have some hope for the future people!

 

[dacalion]

Naw I think the point of what Dacalion might be getting at is that, all of the inventory of WAX and sample worthy REAL MUSIC pretty much came out and there will not be a treasure trove of inventory like that ever produced again by QUALITY LIVE BANDS, lots of Jazz out there but he might be speaking of the DOPE melodic RnB with Strings, Horns, Orchestration and last but not least....DOPE DRUMS...

I see where he is headed and i thought about the same thing a lot of times, I feel like a lot of shit gets wasted nowadays...I really dont agree that hip hop is that young LOL...... its the fact that being creative and still keeping it hip hop is an art in itself...only thing that slowed the wax melting was the heavy put into play Club and South beats that dont rely heavily on samples... but just like oil reserves wax will definitely become rare, I think there is still a lot left to flip but there are so many non capable heads completely ruining a perfect record by sampling the loop and leaving it at that and then got the nerve to say yo, imma dope producer LOL , naw I will never ever give props to anyone for that when its straight up theft of another mans art when you bring absolutely no creativity, soul or signature sound except they might have been the first to turn that shit into a wave and upload it to soundclick and get a bunch of, that's dope, that's hot feedback from the musically uninformed of where the sample came from....

Props BigD you know what I'm talking about! Yeah, there is still plenty to sample, Im not saying that it's not any hidden jewels left. What I am saying is that at one time you could walk along the beach and find treasures by just looking at the ground, nowadays you need a metal detector and a case of dynamite which directly ties into what LDB was saying about having to seriously dig to the core (in a manner of speaking). With that in mind, the past tells us that its gradually getting harder and harder to find those jewels. It's not about predicting the future, its about using info gained from the past to suggest what the future may hold. I feel that you all are right in your thoughts even what Relic said about learning to compose...The fact is, we are running out of our primary resource, if things dont change, we will deplete it and then what? Re-Sample samples? In some cases we're already doing that now...lol.

Very good responses,
MAN ON FIRE

 

[mercurywaters]

there is literally tons of music to sample. many of it still being made to this day. the majority of what i sample is recent music. a lot of world music, jazz and latin stuff. the only limit you have is your imagination. r&b, funk and jazz aren't the only sample sources. i think we need to shift our thinking and creativity and look at new sources of samples and stop digging and redigging the same old stuff.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

stop digging and redigging the same old stuff.

Exactly there is loads to sample but for the money making producers they stay in a certain zone of what is pleasing to flip for some money, universally appealing (familiar and a sample that everyone identifies with and evokes emotion and possible reminiscing, there's not a lot of those samples left to use because most platinum joints are based on a sample that has a familiar melody and possibly the sample itself was a chart topper on its own back in the day) the thing is this, with the internet, sampling is very risky because all it takes is someone to give the idea in something dope they post (hundreds of thousands hear it)and then the next thing you know someone id's the sample and a million other mofos go get it and then guess what, one of those millions has the hook up to a label and a deal...that's the killer about showcasing any type of sample or flippage because it's very hard to prove the source of the idea, especially if you were possibly the FIRST to find it, FIRST to Flip it and then all you got a year later is a link with the song you made and someone using that shit on a known record...that's the killer, i'm not one who thinks old but yet original and nothing worse than 20 people tryna get on a record and they all using the same shit or basic style, that's wack there's no creativity or originality in that.

 

[mercurywaters]

Exactly there is loads to sample but for the money making producers they stay in a certain zone of what is pleasing to flip for some money, universally appealing (familiar and a sample that everyone identifies with and evokes emotion and possible reminiscing, there's not a lot of those samples left to use because most platinum joints are based on a sample that has a familiar melody and possibly the sample itself was a chart topper on its own back in the day) the thing is this, with the internet, sampling is very risky because all it takes is someone to give the idea in something dope they post (hundreds of thousands hear it)and then the next thing you know someone id's the sample and a million other mofos go get it and then guess what, one of those millions has the hook up to a label and a deal...that's the killer about showcasing any type of sample or flippage because it's very hard to prove the source of the idea, especially if you were possibly the FIRST to find it, FIRST to Flip it and then all you got a year later is a link with the song you made and someone using that shit on a known record...that's the killer, i'm not one who thinks old but yet original and nothing worse than 20 people tryna get on a record and they all using the same shit or basic style, that's wack there's no creativity or originality in that.

in contrast to your argument. timbaland has made huge hits with extremely obscure samples. samples that he thought were so obscure he could get away without clearance on them. and now its bit him in the ass incidentally. the use of recognizable samples was made popular with the glory days of bad boy and puffy. thats not the basis of sample usage in hip hop and nor is it now the standard. the key to what hip hop is, was, and will be is the fact that the "formula" for hip hop is very broad. an emcee and a beat. the beat can be ANYTHING and the emcee can say ANYTHING. the content of the sampled music doesn't dictate a "hit" by any means. the amount of garbage (that makes money) on the radio is testament to that. you can sample halodim or paragon black in 20 years and make a hit record. and there are no traditional "hits" on those albums.(and you better believe wings will find your ass and sue you) hitmaking strictly sits on promotion and accesible material.

as far as beat theft. ain't much you can do about that but keep your shit protected and/or quiet.

 

[MGTheFuture]

We'll run out of samples perhaps, if so, i think the 2nd/3rd gen will just re-flip what we been flippin and run em through some cooler FX and processes. Audio software will be able to pick em apart better, and mix and match them together. So instead of just 1 samples...they probally end up seamlessly meshing 3-5 with stuff like melodyne and what not.

Or as others said, Compose *gasp*

 

[dacalion]

We'll run out of samples perhaps, if so, i think the 2nd/3rd gen will just re-flip what we been flippin and run em through some cooler FX and processes. Audio software will be able to pick em apart better, and mix and match them together. So instead of just 1 samples...they probally end up seamlessly meshing 3-5 with stuff like melodyne and what not.

Or as others said, Compose *gasp*

I cosign with that, what we have right now is gonna be with all the future generations, at the same time with the advancement of technology, I'm thinking that all a future producer will have to do is enter "vintage 2007 chords, beats or whatever and the program will put it all together for them", microwave music production...no digging or extensive chopping and cutting work involved...just click what you want and presto! a complete song.

MAN ON FIRE

 

[Icemanbeats]

!!!U can never run out of samples!!... im gonna get deep with my explanation why:

First of all u've probly heard this b4 but it's not the sample u use it's wot u do with it. Here's an example of what i mean:

Let's say we've got a 5 second sinewave... an ordinary beatmaker might see it as a crap sample... Just a droning tone.... "that'll never make me a hit beat"

But maybe he didn't realise - by changing the pitch on it u have got a full scale musical instrument. U can make chords outta it, make a hi hat out of it....

Let's say we've got a sample of a guy scratchin his ass. Each part of that sound is in a certain key. Maybe the final section where his fingernails leave the surface of his ass it was in the key of C. Now let's chop that bit, pitch it up we've got a D key. Let's pitch it all the way down 12 semitones and add a bass effect. We've got a bass note in the key of D. Let's play some chords over it with our 5 second sinewave. Let's go back and chop the bit before he scratched his ass ---- the sound of the air moving as his hand moved towards his butt crack. Shit that might work as a lil atmosphere effect just before the hook drops in, it just needs some reverb on it, and saturation to make it fatter.

Now look at the number of sounds in each song that exists in the world's ever changing library of music not just the 10 second loops but even the milliseconds of sound. UNLIMITED ;p

 

[mercurywaters]

!!!U can never run out of samples!!... im gonna get deep with my explanation why:

First of all u've probly heard this b4 but it's not the sample u use it's wot u do with it. Here's an example of what i mean:

Let's say we've got a 5 second sinewave... an ordinary beatmaker might see it as a crap sample... Just a droning tone.... "that'll never make me a hit beat"

But maybe he didn't realise - by changing the pitch on it u have got a full scale musical instrument. U can make chords outta it, make a hi hat out of it....

Let's say we've got a sample of a guy scratchin his ass. Each part of that sound is in a certain key. Maybe the final section where his fingernails leave the surface of his ass it was in the key of C. Now let's chop that bit, pitch it up we've got a D key. Let's pitch it all the way down 12 semitones and add a bass effect. We've got a bass note in the key of D. Let's play some chords over it with our 5 second sinewave. Let's go back and chop the bit before he scratched his ass ---- the sound of the air moving as his hand moved towards his butt crack. Shit that might work as a lil atmosphere effect just before the hook drops in, it just needs some reverb on it, and saturation to make it fatter.

Now look at the number of sounds in each song that exists in the world's ever changing library of music not just the 10 second loops but even the milliseconds of sound. UNLIMITED ;p

well put my friend. the only limit is imagination.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Obviously I think my point was missed here, Merc there was no argument at all for you to contrast I don't understand what you're trying to say, Timbaland is pretty much an example of what I would use as a good example of sample use for the most part, I love to sample I am saying don't come with that weak shit, sampled a whole loop and brought no CREATIVITY we not really talking about sample turned into a one shot (chromatically keymapped to sum up iceman's post) or tone or even disguising the sample or changing pitch, that's not the problem, we creative producers do that type of thing all of the time I do it all the time that should be a given for any heads thats been doing this for any length of time.

I think there is still a lot left to flip but there are so many non capable heads completely ruining a perfect record by sampling the loop and leaving it at that and then got the nerve to say yo, imma dope producer LOL , naw I will never ever give props to anyone for that when its straight up theft of another mans art when you bring absolutely no creativity, soul or signature sound except they might have been the first to turn that shit into a wave and upload it to soundclick and get a bunch of, that's dope, that's hot feedback from the musically uninformed of where the sample came from....I usually wouldn't quote myself but in case you aint read the entirety or get the point here ya go....NO points to argue against for the creative..

i'm not one who thinks old but yet original and nothing worse than 20 people tryna get on a record and they all using the same shit or basic style, that's wack there's no creativity or originality in that.

 

[dacalion]

!!!U can never run out of samples!!... im gonna get deep with my explanation why:

First of all u've probly heard this b4 but it's not the sample u use it's wot u do with it. Here's an example of what i mean:

Let's say we've got a 5 second sinewave... an ordinary beatmaker might see it as a crap sample... Just a droning tone.... "that'll never make me a hit beat"

But maybe he didn't realise - by changing the pitch on it u have got a full scale musical instrument. U can make chords outta it, make a hi hat out of it....

Let's say we've got a sample of a guy scratchin his ass. Each part of that sound is in a certain key. Maybe the final section where his fingernails leave the surface of his ass it was in the key of C. Now let's chop that bit, pitch it up we've got a D key. Let's pitch it all the way down 12 semitones and add a bass effect. We've got a bass note in the key of D. Let's play some chords over it with our 5 second sinewave. Let's go back and chop the bit before he scratched his ass ---- the sound of the air moving as his hand moved towards his butt crack. Shit that might work as a lil atmosphere effect just before the hook drops in, it just needs some reverb on it, and saturation to make it fatter.

Now look at the number of sounds in each song that exists in the world's ever changing library of music not just the 10 second loops but even the milliseconds of sound. UNLIMITED ;p

LMAO!