Interesting viewpoint...
http://ezinearticles.com/?Hip-Hop-Isnt-Dead-But-Its-Dying-Heres-10-Reasons-Why&id=437259
http://ezinearticles.com/?Hip-Hop-Isnt-Dead-But-Its-Dying-Heres-10-Reasons-Why&id=437259
Hip Hop, Dying or Dead?
- Thread starter dacalion
- Start date
-
beat this! (nov 27-28) signup begins in...
Fade
The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
Very interesting article. I like the point he makes about how these guys today are not MC's, rather entertainers that rap, very well said! If you really want to call yourself an MC, then be one. Don't be a guy that raps and entertains for the almighty dollar. The bottom line is that hip hop is still a culture, but like he said, it's been compromised, sold to the highest bidder.
"Meanwhile many of the best MCs that have mastered the art of MC'ing (see #9) receive little to no promotion from corporate America and their great talents are heard and witnessed by few."
"What I'm saying is that Gangsta rap is not new and most of the so-called gangsta rap acts nowadays all sound the same (regardless of where they're from) and are not nearly as good and cutting edge as the pioneers of that sub-genre within Hip-Hop."
...i wish it was the opposite and the real mc's and hiphop pioneers were the most popular and liked
"What I'm saying is that Gangsta rap is not new and most of the so-called gangsta rap acts nowadays all sound the same (regardless of where they're from) and are not nearly as good and cutting edge as the pioneers of that sub-genre within Hip-Hop."
...i wish it was the opposite and the real mc's and hiphop pioneers were the most popular and liked
lion-ucs
ILLIEN
ill o.g.
What year was this written?
I does have some good, albeit highly mentioned, points.
But it doesn't seem too relevant with some artists emerging.
But #6 is still mostly relevant.
And is one of the main reasons broadcast radio is dying.
#10, thats kinda the womens own fault.
The degrading, they embrace and even call each other that. Same as dudes calling each other nigga
Chicks on the mic, they're there but no one wants to hear you rap about how there are no females getting play. Likewise, we dont need grotesque details about your sex life.
I does have some good, albeit highly mentioned, points.
But it doesn't seem too relevant with some artists emerging.
But #6 is still mostly relevant.
And is one of the main reasons broadcast radio is dying.
#10, thats kinda the womens own fault.
The degrading, they embrace and even call each other that. Same as dudes calling each other nigga
Chicks on the mic, they're there but no one wants to hear you rap about how there are no females getting play. Likewise, we dont need grotesque details about your sex life.
@lion - January 31, 2007
@Fade and 420 - agreed 100%, I think the content of what MC's are saying is determined more by the labels and the mainstream public just wants an entertainer. You described the perfect underground MC though. No real show, just verbal skills displayed at their best.
@Fade and 420 - agreed 100%, I think the content of what MC's are saying is determined more by the labels and the mainstream public just wants an entertainer. You described the perfect underground MC though. No real show, just verbal skills displayed at their best.
Yeah it is down at the bottom of the page, I totally agree with you on #6 but I have more concerns with #10...I've seen too many cats say that they rapped about topics that the labels said would sell and strongly leaned towards. I think a lot of cats aren't truely free to rap about what they really want so they do what they're told...on the other hand...if a cat comes out the gate blowing up, then they may have a better shot at rapping about whatever they want but for the most part, if your investor says...rap about airplanes or don't look to resign a new contract, then "flying the friendly skys" will probably be an option for their next album title.
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
2 is still relevant atleast on the fan aspect. Its almost the only way to be respected is if they can atleast say, "well hes gettin money".
4 is kind of an opinion honestly. Rappers/MCs are brands and some brands resonate with more people stronger than others.
5 is still relevant. Alot of "hiphop" news is pop news involving a few black artists. Most of the cultural media has been wiped out and forgotten
6 is definatly still relevant
7 I'd say thats the fault of the older generation. Who wants to hang out and hear stories about their fathers/grandparents? Thats basically whats happening. The last generation needs to actively mentor this generation. Otherwise, you get what we have now. It takes a village to close a generation gap.
8 IS relevant but it doesnt tell how it can be changed. Its kind of like the last problem, you gotta mentor and help them grow and learn. There are exceptions to the rule (as always) but give help where its needed or suck up the consequences afterwards.
9 Real MCing is a constant prob. If its not one thing its another. Kinda relevant but is also hugely opinion. A better reason would be captivating MCing.
10 is a very real prob, but I think its a bit more on the fan side than Label/Artists. Most women dont want the pressure of representing all women. Women are hard on eachother. Who wants to carry their whole GENDER, STATE, AND Hip hop on their back? Its gonna take a cultural change in order to actually change this.
One thing I greatly dislike about this article: The tone says "what needs to happen is.." instead of "we need to do this, heres how". The later is what we all should be doing... my 2¢
4 is kind of an opinion honestly. Rappers/MCs are brands and some brands resonate with more people stronger than others.
5 is still relevant. Alot of "hiphop" news is pop news involving a few black artists. Most of the cultural media has been wiped out and forgotten
6 is definatly still relevant
7 I'd say thats the fault of the older generation. Who wants to hang out and hear stories about their fathers/grandparents? Thats basically whats happening. The last generation needs to actively mentor this generation. Otherwise, you get what we have now. It takes a village to close a generation gap.
8 IS relevant but it doesnt tell how it can be changed. Its kind of like the last problem, you gotta mentor and help them grow and learn. There are exceptions to the rule (as always) but give help where its needed or suck up the consequences afterwards.
9 Real MCing is a constant prob. If its not one thing its another. Kinda relevant but is also hugely opinion. A better reason would be captivating MCing.
10 is a very real prob, but I think its a bit more on the fan side than Label/Artists. Most women dont want the pressure of representing all women. Women are hard on eachother. Who wants to carry their whole GENDER, STATE, AND Hip hop on their back? Its gonna take a cultural change in order to actually change this.
One thing I greatly dislike about this article: The tone says "what needs to happen is.." instead of "we need to do this, heres how". The later is what we all should be doing... my 2¢
My 2 cents... (Summarized) I blame all generations of listeners/fans, I blame the labels/artist, basically everybody involved. It took a nation to build hip hop up to what it was, it wasn't just a specific group, a certain type of artist, or any one thing in particular. It took a unified effort so to me, the ball has been dropped by everyone. People around me were screaming for "new content, education and evolution" way before hip hop was even viewed as "dying out".
From my perspective, the game changed by not changing. I mean as soon as we saw hip hop declining we should have moved right then. Instead we watched and we are still watching. We can no longer afford to just sit back and watch. The time to move came years ago but we didn't. We have to stand and be accountable or we'll be telling our kids and grandkids about our passion and love for a genre that existed in our time rather than them experiencing it for themselves.
Everything needs to evolve to stay alive, the internets evolution has put a big dent in the music industry as a whole, what are we doing to counter act it? Not very much from what I see. The way we listen to music has evolved, what have we done to make it relevant? Not very much. So it's no surprise that we are going thru the things that we are witnessing right now.
Cats are selling their gear, the recession that we are NOT in is making it harder and harder for normal cats to come home and listen to music and much less make music. The whole culture, from forums to the actual real life aspects of hip hop is all but gone and getting thinner each day. Some of us are fighting with all we got to keep the culture alive and relevant but even that takes a toll after so long.
There are plenty of avenues to take but it's gonna take an effort from everyone that truely loves what we do to turn this around. I feel that we need content and contributions from the new and old at any level to get involved rather than watching to see what happens. Flooding the culture with garbage didn't help us either (that was tried already). We have to make it cool to be hip hop again and then we can relax a bit. Look at what retailers do when their sales start to drop. They lower their prices to increase the demand. Hip hop needs a similar strategy...it begins with us and the time was yesterday.
Just my thoughts...
From my perspective, the game changed by not changing. I mean as soon as we saw hip hop declining we should have moved right then. Instead we watched and we are still watching. We can no longer afford to just sit back and watch. The time to move came years ago but we didn't. We have to stand and be accountable or we'll be telling our kids and grandkids about our passion and love for a genre that existed in our time rather than them experiencing it for themselves.
Everything needs to evolve to stay alive, the internets evolution has put a big dent in the music industry as a whole, what are we doing to counter act it? Not very much from what I see. The way we listen to music has evolved, what have we done to make it relevant? Not very much. So it's no surprise that we are going thru the things that we are witnessing right now.
Cats are selling their gear, the recession that we are NOT in is making it harder and harder for normal cats to come home and listen to music and much less make music. The whole culture, from forums to the actual real life aspects of hip hop is all but gone and getting thinner each day. Some of us are fighting with all we got to keep the culture alive and relevant but even that takes a toll after so long.
There are plenty of avenues to take but it's gonna take an effort from everyone that truely loves what we do to turn this around. I feel that we need content and contributions from the new and old at any level to get involved rather than watching to see what happens. Flooding the culture with garbage didn't help us either (that was tried already). We have to make it cool to be hip hop again and then we can relax a bit. Look at what retailers do when their sales start to drop. They lower their prices to increase the demand. Hip hop needs a similar strategy...it begins with us and the time was yesterday.
Just my thoughts...
thedreampolice
A backwards poet writes inverse.
I agree with it, it's so lame. Kids that live with there mom and make no money are rapping about making stacks of cash ha ha Even Kayne and Dilated Peoples talk about getting there money rights.
But I do think Jay-Z, Kayne and Eminem are some of the best rapers of all time and they are the most well known right now.
But I do think Jay-Z, Kayne and Eminem are some of the best rapers of all time and they are the most well known right now.
Formant024
Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
i cant be arsed about whats well known, ill take mf doom over kanye, em or whatever anytime.
I think kids these days are lazy, you dont know real hiphop if noone is putting down effort to find out whats out there.
Aside from that, im 31 years old, i was talking crap about generation x in 1998 lol. BUT! if i was 15 right now i'd be all over some crazy shit i guess. At my age i just cant relate but it sure as hell dont equate to my understanding of skills in regards to spitting, writing or what you'd call a phat beat.
These new cats dont spit, like 50ct..thats not rapping, more like fuck it, i aint going to spit, i got everything already so just listen to me talking bored as hell over an 808 (trendsetter...)
Women...i dunno, I recall lauren hill's album hitting the charts...just straight up hiphop, female style. I kinda had my hopes up for Jean Grae doing something similar but these days thats just not chart material... and that pretty much goes for all my prefered artists out there but at least most of them keep being themselves.
I think kids these days are lazy, you dont know real hiphop if noone is putting down effort to find out whats out there.
Aside from that, im 31 years old, i was talking crap about generation x in 1998 lol. BUT! if i was 15 right now i'd be all over some crazy shit i guess. At my age i just cant relate but it sure as hell dont equate to my understanding of skills in regards to spitting, writing or what you'd call a phat beat.
These new cats dont spit, like 50ct..thats not rapping, more like fuck it, i aint going to spit, i got everything already so just listen to me talking bored as hell over an 808 (trendsetter...)
Women...i dunno, I recall lauren hill's album hitting the charts...just straight up hiphop, female style. I kinda had my hopes up for Jean Grae doing something similar but these days thats just not chart material... and that pretty much goes for all my prefered artists out there but at least most of them keep being themselves.
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
Dac, how do we do this? From the relevancy of listening to music, to a culture wide reformation? Serious question. To anyone actually.
a reformation would need a counterculture (or counter project) to mainstream media. hip hop is not dead, nor dying, but on the surface, it is soaked with corporate interest. you'd need a radio/tv/internet/(print?) platform on a smaller scale, specializing in more ambitious/positive music, maybe not only hip hop, but rock, electronica, jazz, latin. this could be financed by ads, aiming at a target group which would be rather 25-55 than 14-23. Health products, organic, automobile, traveling, renewable energy, electronics etc.
Think of it as building a house...
1. We need good ground (investors) and a strong foundation to build our base (everybody else). We need companies that are willing to invest and be the backbone of our vision. The foundation will be us, we need to support those companies with a unified effort.
2. Next our structure (key figures). Mainly seasoned hip hop heads that have proved to stay relevant over the years and know the keys to success. LL, KRS, Cube, Em, Dre, Luke, and a few new school cats as well, like Drake, Nikki, Trey and so on... have to be in position to guide and direct the new generation cats by teaching unity, educating, and opening new doors for success.
3. The Inner and Outer walls (producers and emcee's). Emcee's represent the outer walls, it's gonna be up to them to make the house attractive on the outside. They will need to bring what everybody wants...originality, better content, diversity and quality ish! The Inner walls (producers) will basically do the same thing from behind the scenes.
4. Finally the Roof (straight up hardcore hip hop heads, a conglomeration of everybody involved, from forums clothing lines). Their job will primarily be to keep hip hop safe from the elements but also have an attractive appeal as well. They must endure and keep any leaks out! Hip Hop forums like ours and others need to be active, doing things, continuously promoting and so on.
Now ofcorse this list doesn't cover every aspect but these are key factors (imo) and I strongly believe that they will help hip hop but it starts with us and we have got to be more proactive and more reactive as well. Before we even start looking for good soil we have got to show the world that there is a relevant market in hip hop. We do that by getting on illmuzik.com and speaking up, becoming attractive to new and other sources, contributing to the site and all the other functions that it has to offer. If I had a kazillion bucks and I wanted to invest into hip hop, so I jump online to do some research, I find illmuzik.com is just blowing up with hip hop ish, thats where I'm gonna invest. If I come here and it's dead as hell then I'm gonna move on to something else. Basically, we kill ourselves by NOT participating!
I'm not defending commercial hiphop & major labels, but if the demand is high for poor quality hiphop why should labels create a product that only the few are demanding. 2 things have to happen, fans have to become fans again. And these fans have to quit supporting these low quality "artists". Call a spade a spade. Which is why I agree with #4, #5, .
Fade
The Beat Strangler
Administrator
illest o.g.
The thing is that life has changed, not just hip hop. At the time that rap music got really popular in the 80's and 90's, it was a new thing, it was cool, dope, hip, stylish, whatever you want to call it.
I remember freaking out when I'd look in the back of a rap magazine and see when the new NWA or Big Daddy Kane album was coming out, and waiting with great anticipation. It's just the way it was then.
Right now, people have to realize that rap music is not the same. As far as I'm concerned, the top-40 rap music is "hip-pop" and the rest is "hip-hop". It's the whole package that you have to look at; back then artists were HUNGRY, they would make beats and write lyrics 24/7 because they wanted to try their hand at hip hop. They used MPC's and SP12's, DJ's were still trying to figure out better ways to scratch a record, rappers were trying to come up with clever lyrics.
Now? It's all gone. Why? Because it's all been done before. A perfect example is this:
When DJ's first discovered how to scratch it opened up all kinds of possibilities. They dove right in there and tried to come up with different scratches. The beat juggling was discovered and taken to a whole new level. All of this combined gave all DJ's something to work towards and to excel at. Where is the DJ culture nowadays? In the toilet, that's where. There's no excitement in scratching and beat juggling now because it's all been done already, we're past all that shit. There's only so many ways you can scratch "Ahhh" and "Fresh" or beat juggle some kicks and snares.
Basically, hip hop is at a point where it's all dried up. It's like anything really. Even Rock, Disco, Classical, all that shit is done, been done, nothing else to do.
So I think if we want hip hop to move forward then we need to move it forward in our own way but we can't try to replicate the past, because that's why they call it the past. We can use the past as motivation, but it's time for everyone to just SHUT THE FUCK UP and make music. Fuck all this beef shit or rapping about how much money or jewelry you have, or trying to get your face on TMZ. People forget why they first go into making hip hop in the first place - MUSIC.
I remember freaking out when I'd look in the back of a rap magazine and see when the new NWA or Big Daddy Kane album was coming out, and waiting with great anticipation. It's just the way it was then.
Right now, people have to realize that rap music is not the same. As far as I'm concerned, the top-40 rap music is "hip-pop" and the rest is "hip-hop". It's the whole package that you have to look at; back then artists were HUNGRY, they would make beats and write lyrics 24/7 because they wanted to try their hand at hip hop. They used MPC's and SP12's, DJ's were still trying to figure out better ways to scratch a record, rappers were trying to come up with clever lyrics.
Now? It's all gone. Why? Because it's all been done before. A perfect example is this:
When DJ's first discovered how to scratch it opened up all kinds of possibilities. They dove right in there and tried to come up with different scratches. The beat juggling was discovered and taken to a whole new level. All of this combined gave all DJ's something to work towards and to excel at. Where is the DJ culture nowadays? In the toilet, that's where. There's no excitement in scratching and beat juggling now because it's all been done already, we're past all that shit. There's only so many ways you can scratch "Ahhh" and "Fresh" or beat juggle some kicks and snares.
Basically, hip hop is at a point where it's all dried up. It's like anything really. Even Rock, Disco, Classical, all that shit is done, been done, nothing else to do.
So I think if we want hip hop to move forward then we need to move it forward in our own way but we can't try to replicate the past, because that's why they call it the past. We can use the past as motivation, but it's time for everyone to just SHUT THE FUCK UP and make music. Fuck all this beef shit or rapping about how much money or jewelry you have, or trying to get your face on TMZ. People forget why they first go into making hip hop in the first place - MUSIC.
I think the only thing that will fix the problem is that REAL hip hop becomes profitable again. Im not sure it will, the whole music industry has changed so much since the 80's and 90's. We got brainwashed into liking boring shit, cheap and easy to produce shit, its the musical version of factory farming, only the celebrities are now the battery hens. Ignorance is good, greed is good, good is bad. Now go buy the latest Young Money release!!
UNORTHODOX
Father Timeless
@Dac Ima do it.
@Fade I dont think its that cut and dry. Its gonna take a core of artists djs graphix designers and videographers pushing the good to ATLEAST create a culture that has a fresh creative vibe. I think it can be done.
@2Good Profitability will come with being the leader (in this country atleast). We have to sound and feel like we are fresh new amazing ang feeding the soul.
@Fade I dont think its that cut and dry. Its gonna take a core of artists djs graphix designers and videographers pushing the good to ATLEAST create a culture that has a fresh creative vibe. I think it can be done.
@2Good Profitability will come with being the leader (in this country atleast). We have to sound and feel like we are fresh new amazing ang feeding the soul.