Help me with my drums... Please...

[Cell 2Dee]

So I've got no lab at the moment with my laptop dead on me, but I've been going through my beats that I've got posted online, and my drums are boring as hell. If I was looking to buy a beat, and came across mine, I'd turn them off because the drums are so shitty. It goes without saying that that's not good. So I need any and every tip all of you have got to making a good drum pattern. Sounds, rhythm, how much swing to put on them, putting ReGroove on them and how much, basically, everything you can muster up. Here's the beats I was listening to

https://www.illmuzik.com/Cell_2Dee
http://www.zshare.net/audio/58368381075c2fb0/


Thanks guys, this'll help me a hell of a lot.

 

[Shonsteez]

Cell - if memory serves me correctly, from the stuff i heard you post here and there in battles, etc. i dont think your drums were that bad. The only thing i noticed that stood out more then anything to me was the general swing and groove of your drums. [[ and this is really the key to having a good drum track IMO, minus selecting good sounds to begin with but thats another topic ]]....

**What I would recommend is first beginning to learn how to sequence with quantize "off".
This will force you to get used to making your timing correct or else your left with a crappy sounding track in the first place. While your raising the bar in your pad banging/key tapping game, you'll eventually begin to recognize your style of playing and what feels/sounds good and bad to you. This will ultimately lead to your own style of swing.

Having "basic" drums really isn't that bad of thing dude and many popular hits have some of the most watered down patterns you'll ever hear, the key to success with drums lye's more in the way you play them then anything else if you ask me.

 

[Cell 2Dee]

**What I would recommend is first beginning to learn how to sequence with quantize "off".
This will force you to get used to making your timing correct or else your left with a crappy sounding track in the first place. While your raising the bar in your pad banging/key tapping game, you'll eventually begin to recognize your style of playing and what feels/sounds good and bad to you. This will ultimately lead to your own style of swing.

That's probably the best idea to be honest, thanks for the feedback and advice Steez, on point as always.

 

[Kontents]

So I need any and every tip all of you have got to making a good drum pattern. Sounds, rhythm, how much swing to put on them, putting ReGroove on them and how much, basically, everything you can muster up.

I say this with all do respect... And I do mean all do respect.







































FUCK YOU!

HAHAHAHAHA

My advice find a beat in a song you like the drums from and try your BEST to copy its style. This will help you realize how simple it can be to be effective with very little to work with.

 

[God]

Advice: Don't be needy. If the drums sound like shit - pretend they're hot as fuck. Believe your own bullshit. You'll be surprised how far that gets you.

 

[woohff]

Listen to beats that are good to your ear. Try to pay attention what they're doing with the drumpattern and especially the groove or swing or what ever you call it. Battlecat has some ill styles bangin out his drum... Dre's groove is awsome altho the patterns are usually quite simple. Check them Hi-Tek beats also! Matterfact listen to the intro of Hi-Teknology vol. 1 (Scratch rappin) and you should be good haha.

 

[Relic]

Advice: Don't be needy. If the drums sound like shit - pretend they're hot as fuck. Believe your own bullshit. You'll be surprised how far that gets you.

LOL, always with that realness.

 

[Sucio]

Advice: Don't be needy. If the drums sound like shit - pretend they're hot as fuck. Believe your own bullshit. You'll be surprised how far that gets you.

Word life^


When other people (prospective buyers) listen to your shit:

Always think your shit sounds dope (even if it doesn't..just keep it to yourself). Because once you tell someone that you found something wrong with the track, they will notice it too.... If they like it they like it...but don't give them a reason NOT to.

 

[Shonsteez]

I think your safe asking questions here for advice however....but yeah, those are good words to live by.
If someone does criticize you tho, let em' criticize.
Its a plain fact that not everyone is gonna dig your music and every producer has a particular vision of what you should or shouldnt do - so in the end just do you.

 

[Relic]

Your always safe here asking questions like this though..Dont get it twisted its international fam, we dont leave cats hangin..

 

[Griffin Avid]

I think a couple of things.

1. They are YOUR tracks. If YOU are unhappy with elements of your production then you need to work on them. It's that simple.

2. What I hear are beats composed by the most common sounds; a Kick, snare and a hat. You could try incorporating different percussive sounds (percs) to add additional rhythmic offsets to your main drum line.

3. Velocity and Tone. It's subtle so I can't swear to this, but it sounds like every drum sample is repeating as is. IE: The first snare in the bar sounds EXACTLY like the second snare. It's usually the case that a real drummer will accent the first beat which makes the first kick heavier than the rest. I say heavier and not just LOUDER (as in artificial programming). The TONE is slightly different as the drum hits are arranged in order. So if you have something taht records velocity make sure there's a nice zone. You can always cheat this by using similar drum sounds. We all have (well most of us) moster collections of drum sounds and many are silimar. You can always use similar snares in the same drum track.

Or be even lazier and take 1 snare layer away from your composite snare as the drum track rolls on.

4. Change ups and variations. We all like to 'add one mo snare' or subtract a kick for drum variations. Try a whole new pattern. Try the same pattern with different drum sounds.

5. Drum rolls have always been difficult to program and so they've gone missing from most hip hop/rap records. Learn to program them and you could really have a signature sound at your finger tips.

6. Sounds. You have very common sounds. Like you've been downloading the same drum sounds available on these producer sites. Or listening to the 'common advice' given by the producer who excels at being average. Drums bangin through compression and EQ.
There's a huge palette of effects you can add to your drums to make them stand out and do more than just bang.

7. Also, it sounds like you work the sample first and then just drop drums behind the samples. Work in reverse and create a sick drum pattern. A really sick one AND THEN put samples/loops over it. Too often we look for drums that fit instead of drums that enhance.

A good test of your Drum Works is to let the song play out with just the drums. If they can stand on their own and be interesting then they will hold up behind your overall production down the line.


You shoudl alos read Producer's Edge Magazine. They just did a whole series dedicated to drums called Drum Works with articles about programming, MIDI, timing and sound design.

Lastly, I say NEVER listen to another producers beats for ideas or style pointers. If it happens naturally fine, but you should always go back to the source, which is a real drummer and those funky break beats. Hip hop and rap get over just fine without that level of detail and expression, but if you're going to aim high, aim at the top. Look at and listen to a break beat.

Look at it timing wise and sound-wise. SEE what it takes to make you FEEL. Those nuances are all you'll even need to learn about drums. And you can gather all of that from a 2-bar drum loop. I wrote an article about that.

 

[Cell 2Dee]

I think a couple of things.

1. They are YOUR tracks. If YOU are unhappy with elements of your production then you need to work on them. It's that simple.

2. What I hear are beats composed by the most common sounds; a Kick, snare and a hat. You could try incorporating different percussive sounds (percs) to add additional rhythmic offsets to your main drum line.

3. Velocity and Tone. It's subtle so I can't swear to this, but it sounds like every drum sample is repeating as is. IE: The first snare in the bar sounds EXACTLY like the second snare. It's usually the case that a real drummer will accent the first beat which makes the first kick heavier than the rest. I say heavier and not just LOUDER (as in artificial programming). The TONE is slightly different as the drum hits are arranged in order. So if you have something taht records velocity make sure there's a nice zone. You can always cheat this by using similar drum sounds. We all have (well most of us) moster collections of drum sounds and many are silimar. You can always use similar snares in the same drum track.

Or be even lazier and take 1 snare layer away from your composite snare as the drum track rolls on.

4. Change ups and variations. We all like to 'add one mo snare' or subtract a kick for drum variations. Try a whole new pattern. Try the same pattern with different drum sounds.

5. Drum rolls have always been difficult to program and so they've gone missing from most hip hop/rap records. Learn to program them and you could really have a signature sound at your finger tips.

6. Sounds. You have very common sounds. Like you've been downloading the same drum sounds available on these producer sites. Or listening to the 'common advice' given by the producer who excels at being average. Drums bangin through compression and EQ.
There's a huge palette of effects you can add to your drums to make them stand out and do more than just bang.

7. Also, it sounds like you work the sample first and then just drop drums behind the samples. Work in reverse and create a sick drum pattern. A really sick one AND THEN put samples/loops over it. Too often we look for drums that fit instead of drums that enhance.

A good test of your Drum Works is to let the song play out with just the drums. If they can stand on their own and be interesting then they will hold up behind your overall production down the line.


You shoudl alos read Producer's Edge Magazine. They just did a whole series dedicated to drums called Drum Works with articles about programming, MIDI, timing and sound design.

Lastly, I say NEVER listen to another producers beats for ideas or style pointers. If it happens naturally fine, but you should always go back to the source, which is a real drummer and those funky break beats. Hip hop and rap get over just fine without that level of detail and expression, but if you're going to aim high, aim at the top. Look at and listen to a break beat.

Look at it timing wise and sound-wise. SEE what it takes to make you FEEL. Those nuances are all you'll even need to learn about drums. And you can gather all of that from a 2-bar drum loop. I wrote an article about that.

Excellent post. I'm gonna spend tonight just working on my drums, I was gonna make a beat, but I'll get the drums under my belt first. Thanks man, I'm gonna copy this post and save it as a document to refer to. Thanks again.

 

[2GooD Productions]

A good drum pattern will stand on its own with nothing else.
When your pattern is good enough to stand alone then add other layers.
IMO kicks should have some weight to them and snares should be snappy(down to equing the drums higher than everything else).
I normally start with drums, set the volume low enough so there is no chance of distortion, then add everything else and eq each so it doesnt drown the drums, as the bassline can easily do.
I think the bassline should be just under the kick for volume, so it doesnt drown the kick and has enough weight to it to be heard through the kick.
A drum pattern can sound pretty good with just some sound specific equing.
Kick boosted at 85 hz, cut at 50hz and 300hz..
bassline boosted at 55 and cut at 40hz and 300hz.
Snare boosted at 1.2khz.
Highs can be boosted around 8khz.
The gliss can be boosted around 9khz up to around 15khz.
But note all this depends on the sounds being used in the first place, but this is the format i usually use these days to mix drums.
Starting with good drum sounds in the first place saves a lot of trouble later fixing bad sounding samples.
Get sounds to sound right has taken me a long time, even very recent tracks have had poor drums.
Im finally getting my head around it tho, and Im glad I took the time to understand through mainly trial and error and tips from this site.
I personally feel that in this oversaturated market, a producer/beatmaker has to go the extra mile to make their music sound high quality through mixing just to give it a chance of standing out in such a market. But there is a lot to learn and it takes the ears a while to get accustomed to hearing things they wouldnt have heard before but after having taken the path to learning it myself, Im happy I did.

 

[Cell 2Dee]

A good drum pattern will stand on its own with nothing else.
When your pattern is good enough to stand alone then add other layers.
IMO kicks should have some weight to them and snares should be snappy(down to equing the drums higher than everything else).
I normally start with drums, set the volume low enough so there is no chance of distortion, then add everything else and eq each so it doesnt drown the drums, as the bassline can easily do.
I think the bassline should be just under the kick for volume, so it doesnt drown the kick and has enough weight to it to be heard through the kick.
A drum pattern can sound pretty good with just some sound specific equing.
Kick boosted at 85 hz, cut at 50hz and 300hz..
bassline boosted at 55 and cut at 40hz and 300hz.
Snare boosted at 1.2khz.
Highs can be boosted around 8khz.
The gliss can be boosted around 9khz up to around 15khz.
But note all this depends on the sounds being used in the first place, but this is the format i usually use these days to mix drums.
Starting with good drum sounds in the first place saves a lot of trouble later fixing bad sounding samples.
Get sounds to sound right has taken me a long time, even very recent tracks have had poor drums.
Im finally getting my head around it tho, and Im glad I took the time to understand through mainly trial and error and tips from this site.
I personally feel that in this oversaturated market, a producer/beatmaker has to go the extra mile to make their music sound high quality through mixing just to give it a chance of standing out in such a market. But there is a lot to learn and it takes the ears a while to get accustomed to hearing things they wouldnt have heard before but after having taken the path to learning it myself, Im happy I did.

Another great post, thanks 2GooD. Any chance of getting a short walkthrough of how to boost the freq's using Reason?

 

[2GooD Productions]

Another great post, thanks 2GooD. Any chance of getting a short walkthrough of how to boost the freq's using Reason?

Its simply done with an eq.
It depends on how deep you want to go and how much processor power you have too.
Many eq's can end up hogging processor power.
To keep it simple....

load a mixer, load a redrum, load drum samples and get a basic beat going...
or if you already have a drum pattern and want to enhance the sound....

left click the instrument device that has the drums so that the border comes around it, then create m-class equalizer.
the level meter should work on the eq when you play the track indicating its getting its input.
If not reroute the wires by flipping the display with the tab button and route redrum main out -> eq line in.
eq line out -> master mixer.
Once the eq is connected properly....

On the eq, make sure low cut is active,
set low shelf freq to around 50hz, low shelf q all the way left, and drop the gain to around -12 to -18, this cuts the extreme lows that will clash with bassline and effect the ability to find volume without distortion when finally mastering the track..
Settings for param 1 on the eq
Freq = 85 - 95 hz this boosts the kick.
Q adjusts the fullness of the kick, too much and the kick becomes muddy, too little and the kick lacks depth,
Gain adjusts how much you wish to boost the kicks punch.
You can add a little bit of sparkle to a beat by adding a subtle boost in the high end using param 2 on the eq.
Or setting param 2 to 1.2khz you can add some snap to the snare.
Or you can use param 2 to take away from 300hz if the kick is a bit muddy.
Thats just a start on using the eq for drums, the rest is where you take it.
Just remember to listen carefully to the output while you twiddle the dials, and get to grips with what it does. Its really not that complicated once you have done it a few times, things get more complicated with multi band compressors, but reason doesnt have that.
Once you know the frequencies of certain sounds, then it becomes a lot easier using an eq to enhance sounds.


apply this general formula making subtle changes to your own taste and you will start to understand through hearing the differences you couldnt hear before.
Generally hiphop dominates bass and hi end frequencies.
Bass = high volume, mids = medium volume, hi hats/freq = high volume. Thats a general rule I read somewhere, but then rules are made to be broken.
Also listen to some of your favorite tracks from your favorite artists and listen very deeply to the way the beat has been equed. Listen beyond the words and just study the music. Its best to do this with a level freq setting on the amp/eq, and mix your tracks with the same level freq setting.
Its setting a neutral start point, a point of comparison. Always mix to the same neutral eq settings on your amp/eq.
I hope that helps a little, and I hope its easy to understand.

NOTE: when equing and mixing individual instruments make sure you havent added a mastering suite between the hardware mixer and the main mixer or if you have set it to bypass. Once you have equed all the instruments in a track to your liking and the levels are how you want them without distortion, then you add the mastering suite, but that would take a tutorial.

 

[Cell 2Dee]

Thanks alot man, I'm saving this post right now. Great help, appreciate it.

 

[gballin123]

Great thread here. Alot of good info. One of the few things producers don't realize is there sound selection and drum selection make huge huge differences in the quality of there beats. Anytime I get a chance to download a kit or any type of sound I do it bc in my opinion you can never have to many drums. I always EQ, Compress (slightly dont over use this), and add some reverb to my kick and snare/clap. Panning allows room for the tracks to basically breathe and will help them stick out more.


Go to www.blazinkits.com They got some nice free sounds. Whenever I get a chance Ill upload a few kits I have collected and we can get a decent size sharing thread going. Peace