Hearing your recording room..

[Relic]

Right, I think your right in the fact that you can eventually get your ears around the problem, its just not an environment where you can sit down and go to it until you get used to it.

 

[Shonsteez]

See, thats the hard part....I honestly think I just lucked out when I assessed where to place my foam. I mean, i researched what stuff was better for particular applications but for the most part I just sat down where I planned to always mix with my monitors placed exactly how I planned to keep them and decided what areas of the room were having issues.....Then I moved around as music played to different areas of the room to see the differences.

 

[UNORTHODOX]

Relic who do you think is hittin mix wise? maybe they can chime in on something

 

[thedreampolice]

"before i would waste money on a glorified graphic eq like arc."

You clearly have no clue what arc is my friend.

 

[7thangel]

i do and i know it's a poor choice for fixing your space. nevermind that it's dependent on a less than stellar mic. it's also nothing new, studios have used eq's so fix the problems in their rooms, but they tend to use the solutions from pro's and take into account modal ringing and resonance.

using it for a shitty treated room is like shining shit. using it in a treated room to calibrate monitors may help, depending on the type of room 'sound' one is looking to have.

 

[thedreampolice]

Have you used it? The mic is flat thats kinda the point, and no your room still needs to be good and treated but even a good room has frequency problems.

I have used it and it makes a HUGE difference. It is basically the same thing JBL does with there monitors.

 

[dacalion]

This is what Im saying...ofcourse you want your vocals crystal clear...any grime on vocals should be intentional. That said, lets look at the other reasons for sound proofing a room...What percentage of producers at ILL use a mic to record an instrument? Seriously, I'm thinking that Chris may be the only one who would even dare to do it at that level. Not taking anything from anyone else but most cats use what they have in their computer, then there are the very few that do record with instruments but they do it through direct inputs. Hardly anyone records with a mic on an instrument.

Bottom line imo...Chris and 7th are both right, but you can get very extreme in soundproofing a room CORRECTLY (which can actually go as far as the size of the room... theoretically, your room should be built to have the least sound reflection and so on...) who has the money for that? So its a why do it half way type of thing to me.

For playback, some sound reinforcement is good but still, you don't need to go berserk with it. Just my opinion y'all!

 

[7thangel]

Have you used it? The mic is flat thats kinda the point, and no your room still needs to be good and treated but even a good room has frequency problems.

I have used it and it makes a HUGE difference. It is basically the same thing JBL does with there monitors.

i've studied soundproofing, room correction/reflection/refraction/diffusion/etc, and studio building. i spoke to the instructor, who still builds studios around the world about arc when it first came out, and other 'room correction' software like ergo, and why they aren't good compensation for a treated room. 'fixing' one spot in a room can fuck up another spot, and these types of correction software can't remedy that. an untreated room has way too many issues.

the bolded part, isn't that the point? an already treated room. as far as the mic, how flat? does it have a flatter response than commercial mics that are available but can't be used with arc?

i stick to my original post, i wouldn't waste my money on arc. i would work on improving my room/space and getting to 'know' it

 

[LouBez]

At the very LEAST google build your own bass traps and install some

 

[thedreampolice]

7th I think we are saying similar things, I agree that a properly treated room comes first.

"why they aren't good compensation for a treated room. 'fixing' one spot in a room can fuck up another spot"

Most commercial mics are not flat at all. And you can actually use any mic with arc, but few mics have a truly flat response and in fact you really would not want a flat mic for anything other than measurement. So the mic that comes with ARC is not crappy it is actually close to this mic http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M30/

Almost EVERY well designed room still has issues and needs some overall eq.

I AM saying that you are knocking a product you have never tried. That's lame, if you would try at and hear the difference it is substantial. It is also NOT a graphic eq at all. It is more like an FFT eq. You do know that you place the mic in about 12 different spots with ARC so it can measure your room completely? So it does not fuck up another frequency.

"In fact, instead of applying a regular standard EQ as all other systems do (that will be “valid” only in the sweet-spot, making all other room areas sound worse than before) the ARC system will analyze all zones you have in your studio, such as your center sweet-spot, producer desk or client couch. It will then provide a general correction that will effectively work on all of the zones, at the same time. If you want to get more detailed, you can measure multiple areas of the room (engineer’s area, client sofa, etc.) separately, and, using the menus in the plug-in, quickly and easily change the “sweet spot” of the room. Once the measurements have been taken, the measurement software will save those results as files that describe the room acoustics and the relative corrections. "

Point is, you are knocking a product you have never tried or heard and clearly don't even really know how it works or why it is different. So don't knock it until you have at least tried it. ARC is a game changer and I would never mix with out it now, and I know a TON of engineers that have amazing rooms and feel the same way.

And you do know I studied acoustics and designed studios and Sweetwater right?

@dac Really? I guess I have just always recorded real instruments. But yea I mic stuff all the time. And of course I do go direct fairly often.

 

[LouBez]

When i record my players i aviod micing at all costs...It takes some guys getting used to, especially since alotta guys are so emotional about their rigs, but GTR and Guitar Rig gets me some awesome tones so. The only thing i mic is congas.

I got the arc set up, Ima install it this weekend and report back to yall bois

 

[dacalion]

It really sounds to me like Relic just wants to improve his soundroom. Both of you guys have come up with great solutions. I feel like 7th's way is the most economical way to go but Chris' way is the best way to go(for what Relic is trying to achieve).

I'm also getting the impression that Relic doesn't want to pay ARC's price (looks at Relic with sneaky eyes and says "ARC is software"...get it? LMAO) OK back to the straight face...if you don't want to fork out the price of ARC and/or can't figure out any other way of getting it then 7ths idea is the way to go. JMO

 

[thedreampolice]

Sorry Dac ARC is software AND hardware.

 

[dacalion]

ha! it's missing a microphone and you even said you can use any mic with it, man I'm reading this stuff and keeping up with what you guys are battling about...lol. I'm not condoning or suggesting anything here but anyway, c'mon it's software with a mic....geez

 

[thedreampolice]

no you CANT use any mic, you MUST use a measurement mic. Most of them are more expensive than ARC.

But behringer does make a cheap one ECM8000 that is actually not shit WINK WINK.

 

[Relic]

ARC: Its not an option to purchase it at this time , at some point I will def get i, but thats gonna be a while

Lou Bez def let us know!

 

[thedreampolice]

LouBez GTR and Guitar rig are ok, but Digidesign eleven is the only amp plugin that made me ok with going direct. ik multimedia Fender plugin is close as well. I have GTR and Guitar rig, GTR is ok for modern rock and Guitar rig is just ok for strange tones. But I will never give up my amps.

 

[Shonsteez]

As far as going DI vs Recording the Cab I almost always try recording the cab first unless the players rig or the room is just so shitty its going to be hurting the recording more then helping it. Those modeling plugins are awesome, but I try to use them only when needed, or to add additional flavor that couldn't be obtained from mic choice, positioning, etc.

 

[7thangel]

7th I think we are saying similar things, I agree that a properly treated room comes first.

"why they aren't good compensation for a treated room. 'fixing' one spot in a room can fuck up another spot"

Most commercial mics are not flat at all. And you can actually use any mic with arc, but few mics have a truly flat response and in fact you really would not want a flat mic for anything other than measurement. So the mic that comes with ARC is not crappy it is actually close to this mic http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M30/

Almost EVERY well designed room still has issues and needs some overall eq.

I AM saying that you are knocking a product you have never tried. That's lame, if you would try at and hear the difference it is substantial. It is also NOT a graphic eq at all. It is more like an FFT eq. You do know that you place the mic in about 12 different spots with ARC so it can measure your room completely? So it does not fuck up another frequency.

"In fact, instead of applying a regular standard EQ as all other systems do (that will be “valid” only in the sweet-spot, making all other room areas sound worse than before) the ARC system will analyze all zones you have in your studio, such as your center sweet-spot, producer desk or client couch. It will then provide a general correction that will effectively work on all of the zones, at the same time. If you want to get more detailed, you can measure multiple areas of the room (engineer’s area, client sofa, etc.) separately, and, using the menus in the plug-in, quickly and easily change the “sweet spot” of the room. Once the measurements have been taken, the measurement software will save those results as files that describe the room acoustics and the relative corrections. "

Point is, you are knocking a product you have never tried or heard and clearly don't even really know how it works or why it is different. So don't knock it until you have at least tried it. ARC is a game changer and I would never mix with out it now, and I know a TON of engineers that have amazing rooms and feel the same way.

And you do know I studied acoustics and designed studios and Sweetwater right?

@dac Really? I guess I have just always recorded real instruments. But yea I mic stuff all the time. And of course I do go direct fairly often.

sorry, that's bs. i have to try a room correction product, despite the knowledge of it's shortcomings, despite experts, not magazine reviewers, that state what it can and can't do? or else don't speak on it? bs. i know tons of engineers and a few folks that build studios for a living, and they don't see it as a good investment and some go further in describing it, do their opinions count?

you like it and swear by it, i don't and i don't need to spend my cash on this auto room correction product from ik to make that assessment. and part of that assessment, besides what i was taught and learned, is from those who know so much more about this than i do.

here's ethan winer of real traps, who despite his line of business has some nice things to say about the tech used by ik and briefly discusses what it can and can't do. http://www.realtraps.com/art_audyssey.htm

i stated my opinion, i gave my reasons (not even half of the professionals critique of the product), no one has to agree, but don't question whether i have a right to that opinion because i won't spend my money on this product.

and again, for it to actually help even a little bit, what does one need? a treated room

 

[thedreampolice]

7th angel if you hear ARC and don't say it is an improvement I will give you $100