Getting Tracks to Sit Well in the Mix

[The Arkitekt]

just listen to like any popular commercial song. you know how the engineers get every track in the mix to be at such high levels without distorting and bleeding into other tracks fuckin up vocals and shit. like you hear the different tracks seperately but the same time on the song all spread out. idk if i'm clear enough, but i usually eq different tracks to be least on the same frequencys as others so it doesn't cloud it up. that kinda gets me the effect i'm looking for but not fully, and it makes the mix kinda thin sometimes. is this technique called something? come on all you engineers, let me get your input on this

 

[Kontents]

Well once you have eq'd and mixed each track you got to do it to the whole mix aswell to give it some body. What part of your tracks sound thin?

 

[The Arkitekt]

like in example i might lower some mids on the snare so the vocals come out a little more, but some snares might sound shitty like that, lacking mids. but these commercial mixed tracks sound so "full" without sounding cloudy. listen to Collie Buddz - Come around, listen how the instrumental just "surrounds" the vocals without soundy muddy, thats what i'm talking about

 

[LDB]

For one you shouldn't have to EQ each and every individual sound, instrument or track. In my opinion if you have to resort to that you're dealing with some pretty shitty sounds in the first place.

 

[The Arkitekt]

i like to EQ them to my preference

 

[LDB]

i like to EQ them to my preference

I think you've answered your question then! Your EQ "preference may be the problem. You're probably tweaking too much!

When you EQ individual tracks it should only be "slight". It should also be in the realm of "cutting" as opposed to boosting. You should be doing way more cutting than you do boosting. Some instruments sound good solo'd that have a little bass but amongst the whole mix things can get muddy really fast. I always cut bass on stings, keys, guitars synths etc. Cutting bass in the number one way to get your drums to punch thru in my opinion. Let your drums and basslines be the low carriers.

Cutting bass and moving things out of the center by panning will definitely clean up your mix. Leveling things is the last step. And like Kontents mentioned, you need to apply some EQ to the entire mix. That alone is a very good reason not to go EQ tweak crazy on individual tracks or instruments.

 

[The Arkitekt]

i pretty much do exactly what you just said. rarely will i EQ a track heavily, it's mostly just small adjustments. i guess its just bad sounds i'm working with sometimes as you said before. but it's not really the instrumental that clouds up, it's when i put vocals over it. i can't get vocals to sit right with a mix. usually the snare interferes with some of the mids on the vocal, then i have to cut some mids on the snare in turn making it a little mid-lacking, and i don't really like cutting taking too much mids out of a vocal track, it just changes the whole sound of the acapella. and i can't get a vocal at a high level without the instrumental fading away

 

[Relic]

I have been and still am very guilty of over doing tracks, less is more and when you get everything placed in the mix well, then you can amp up the overall level of the mix on the master and it will be better.
Try using harbal too, it helps alot!

 

[LDB]

i pretty much do exactly what you just said. rarely will i EQ a track heavily, it's mostly just small adjustments. i guess its just bad sounds i'm working with sometimes as you said before. but it's not really the instrumental that clouds up, it's when i put vocals over it. i can't get vocals to sit right with a mix. usually the snare interferes with some of the mids on the vocal, then i have to cut some mids on the snare in turn making it a little mid-lacking, and i don't really like cutting taking too much mids out of a vocal track, it just changes the whole sound of the acapella. and i can't get a vocal at a high level without the instrumental fading away

Move the snare out of the middle! Pan it slightly left or right. You could also put a little reverb on the hats and snare. Anytime you add reverb it automatically moves things to the back and away from dead center. The lead vox should be the only thing dead center. If you don't have a pretty good mic and pre you may have to cut a little bass from the vox as well to allow them to punch thru. Cut the bottom and raise the mids slightly on the vox.

Try using harbal too, it helps alot!

Yep harbal is a beast, so is AAMS. But don't rely on either to correct your mix. For one, a shitty mix is a shitty mix, you usually get out what you put in!

I use harbal as a reference. If when using harbal it's cutting the bottom a lot then I know my "before harbal" mix is too bass heavy. I go back to the original track and start cutting the bottom. If harbal raises the mids more than slightly I know I need to go back and clean up the mid section. Harbal can be a great double edge sword! When harbal balances "everything" as opposed to lowering or raising certain freqs you know you started out with a pretty good mix.


Did u know that Relic? lol, try it out if you didn't!

 

[The Arkitekt]

yo good lookin out on the advice LDB. and im gonna look into Harbal, it looks really useful

 

[izodone]

What is harbal and where can I get it?

 

[7thangel]

lead vox shouldn't be the only thing dead center, you can move things if it makes sense to you but to say that so definitively is wrong.

getting rid of the very useless low end from tracks will help. the snare shouldn't be interfering that much due to the fast transients. it's probable that your choice in eqing the vox might be the issue. some like to build from kick and bass then drums and son while others start with the vox. see what works best for you.

another tip is to play and listen to everything really low and hear what still stands out and/or whether the vox can still be heard.

it will be a hard fought road to find a method you'll be comfortable and satisfied with (never resting on your laurels) but it will get there if you keep at it.

personally, not a fan of harbal or aams but to each his/her own

oh, i forgot, what are you monitoring on? and do the mixes sound the same in other places and systems? the most important thing. monitoring and the acoustic pros and cons of the listening environment

 

[The Arkitekt]

i was monitoring on a bullshit computer speaker 2.1 setup. but don't get me wrong i learned them pretty well. i'd switch between those, headphones, and the laptop speakers to get a good reference. it's a pain in the ass but it works. i now have a different bullshit 2.1 system given to me for free but they are a lot more accurate and i havn't did too much music wise with them yet so i'm still getting the feel of the sound they make

 

[LDB]

lead vox shouldn't be the only thing dead center, you can move things if it makes sense to you but to say that so definitively is wrong.

getting rid of the very useless low end from tracks will help. the snare shouldn't be interfering that much due to the fast transients. it's probable that your choice in eqing the vox might be the issue. some like to build from kick and bass then drums and son while others start with the vox. see what works best for you.

another tip is to play and listen to everything really low and hear what still stands out and/or whether the vox can still be heard.

it will be a hard fought road to find a method you'll be comfortable and satisfied with (never resting on your laurels) but it will get there if you keep at it.

personally, not a fan of harbal or aams but to each his/her own

oh, i forgot, what are you monitoring on? and do the mixes sound the same in other places and systems? the most important thing. monitoring and the acoustic pros and cons of the listening environment

To each his own! I think people are just giving advice on what has worked for them. At the end of the day we all have to find our way when it comes to mixing. If it was easy anyone could do it. Quality mixing is not easy and it takes time, I didn't really develop a descent technique until I had been producing for some years. I'm still not the best but members hear who have listened to my tracks in the showcases and comps can attest that I do pretty good.

p.s. har-bal and aams are cool for most home studio producers. They will at least get you headed in the right direction without breaking the bank. Of course if you're putting out something commercially you'd want to use what the big boyz use but for most of us just pushing tracks to potential buyers they both get the job done quite well.

 

[5th Sequence]

i was monitoring on a bullshit computer speaker 2.1 setup. but don't get me wrong i learned them pretty well. i'd switch between those, headphones, and the laptop speakers to get a good reference. it's a pain in the ass but it works. i now have a different bullshit 2.1 system given to me for free but they are a lot more accurate and i havn't did too much music wise with them yet so i'm still getting the feel of the sound they make

It sounds to me like that might be your problem. You ever consider getting monitors for your setup? I used to use regular 2.1 computer speakers before i got some macro monitors. The change was a world of difference, hearing your mixes playback with no color or added bass. My other speakers colored my sound so none of my mixes ever translated well to any other speaker systems.

Better speakers = better mixes in most cases. If you can't hear what your song really sounds like, you can't be sure that people hearing your music on any other soundsystem than your own is gonna sound how you intend it.

Next step would be buying some books on mixing. Don't just read some free info online, try copping a record engineer book from a bookstore you'll find a lot of helpful information there.

 

[The Arkitekt]

It sounds to me like that might be your problem. You ever consider getting monitors for your setup? I used to use regular 2.1 computer speakers before i got some macro monitors. The change was a world of difference, hearing your mixes playback with no color or added bass. My other speakers colored my sound so none of my mixes ever translated well to any other speaker systems.

Better speakers = better mixes in most cases. If you can't hear what your song really sounds like, you can't be sure that people hearing your music on any other soundsystem than your own is gonna sound how you intend it.

Next step would be buying some books on mixing. Don't just read some free info online, try copping a record engineer book from a bookstore you'll find a lot of helpful information there.

yea monitors are like at the top of my list right now. i'm getting this temporary job at the end of september so hopefully i could buy some then. and i downloaded a bunch of ebooks of actual books about mixing and engineering, just looked on amazon to get all the names

 

[5th Sequence]

word yeah thats a great start right there. I've got 2 physical books on audio engineering and they've helped me gain a solid understanding of getting a great mix and how to remedy several problems. I like being able to take the books with me if i'm traveling or doing whatever, this way i can drool over music anyplace, anytime.

 

[The Arkitekt]

yo LDB, i just wanna say i followed your advice with panning and my mixes improved drastically.

i pan my snares to the left (about 15-30%), kicks and bass stay centered, most percussion (hats, rides, cymbals (around 10-50% depending what instrument) to the right to give more of a natural drum kit sound, and i put some light stereo seperation on the main stuff (usually samples as i don't really use synths) only from mids to highs so theres no distortion with lower frequencies like basslines with the sample which i clone the track and use only the lows and keep mids and highs seperate for the stereo seperation. as for vocals... the vocals really shine and pop out with everything being panned around it + a few EQ adjustments and i can raise the levels of the rest of the mix a lot more now without fucking up the vocal track and having it distorted and overpowered by the other tracks

 

[LDB]

yo LDB, i just wanna say i followed your advice with panning and my mixes improved drastically.

That's cool man. Always happy to help.

There's a "must have" plugin out there that would help tremendously as well. It's called Octav8r. It's my "goto plugin" since I purchased it. It's very inexpensive, I use it on any and everything. It can thicken weak instruments, give the space you need WITHOUT panning because it basically does it for you. You can use it on everything from vox to instruments to drums. Every parameter is adjustable to your liking though the presets maybe all you need. Look it up, and don't torrent shop for it. It's worth the little money you'll spend on it and it's an instant download!

P.S. like Ash said, don't get to crazy with the panning. I personally wouldn't go farther than 15% or less on the main elements. On backing vox you can go outside that range but even then don't go further than 25 or 30% for a solid "powerful" mix. Start working things back in closer to center and definitely stay away from the 50% panning, remember mono is still king for some people. If things are panned too far they won't be picked up on mono systems.

At least you have things sounding better. Time and more experimentation will eventually get u to where u want to be! At the end of the day it's about what you like, some may disagree with your adopted technique but if it works for you "make it do what it do"! ONE!

 

[Ash Holmz]

Ark i wouldnt pan my snare THAT far.. a little to the left is aight, but 15 -30% is alot IMO.. i usually keep all my drums dead center except for maybe percussion sounds like cymbals or congas, or if im going for a specific effect. In general ur kick, bass, lead vocal, and snare should be the "power" of the mix and the other elements should be more spaced out .. but its important not to space out ur mix too much though .. generally the main elements should be closer to the center and the more sparse and infrequent elements should be further out. If u pan evrything too far and wide, ur gonna lose that punch and power and the element of suprise. Its a balance .. but 5th hit on the head, unless u got monitors and a decent listening environment, ur basically just rolling dice on ur mixes.