Get that "real drum" feel popin'

[LDB]

1) Drum samples: If you want “real” sounding drums you have to get “real” drum sounds!

Recommendations: This will give you that “Funky Drummer” hard hitting shit that’s the foundation of “authentic” hip hop tracks (think James Brown)!

Kick- Tama Starclassic
Snare- Collector’s Copper
HiHat (open & closed) - Paiste Dark Crisp
Cowbell- LP Rock Ridge Rider
Tom (you need 4 of various sizes) - Sonor Designer
Cymbals (3 various sizes, Paiste & Sabian)

Placement and FX: This is key if you want to pull off that “real, fat” feel.

Kick- centered with NO FX, Compressor 2.80:1
Snare- centered with Reverb plate & some crunch distortion
HiHat- centered with Reverb plate
Cowbell- centered with Reverb plate
Tom (1-4) - T1 pan slight left, T2 & T3 centered, T4 slight right, all with Reverb plate

* Eq each drum piece as needed*

THE MIX: *this is most important*

A) You need one basic mix for the entire drum set with the settings mentioned above.

B) You need to create an “Overhead” mix: “overhead” refers to the mic placement. It basically accentuates the Hithats. You can achieve this with various plugins or lowering the volume on all pieces except the hihats and then applying a compressor (Ratio 2.98:1, attack .56ms, Release 71.96 ms), crunch distortion, saturation, and Eq (low 76 Hz, .53 db,.45)(Mid & Hi 1000 Hz,0 db,0.45 1000Hz,0db,.045)

C) Room mix: For this all you need is a “room” fx plugin. It gives the effect of mics placed away from the drums set a various distances in the room. A small to medium room FX is best.

That’s it! Now adjust the volume on all three mixes’ to taste. If you followed these instructions your drums should sound “big, fat and funky”. Each mix should add its own special element!

Here’s an audio example: first 15 seconds is the room mix only, 16-30 is the overhead only, a break then entire drum mix only, and finally all 3 together.

https://www.illmuzik.com/vip/lildramaboi_realdrumexample.m3u

those drums go with a track I'm twerking on right now.....the track is "mean and funky". I'll probably post it in the next show case or the beat this contest.

 

[Kontents]

Very nice thread LDB. Very helpful and even better with the audio sample provided to demonstrate.

Thanks again!

 

[eldiablo]

when cats record live drums with seperate mics, how do they go about keeping the cycbals out of the snare mic and or etc. or do they just fine tune an overall type of mix?

 

[Low G]

^^ from the live drum recordings ive heard it's an overall type thing.

 

[Manji]

it's atually better when the drums bleed into each other

 

[Kontents]

when cats record live drums with seperate mics, how do they go about keeping the cycbals out of the snare mic and or etc. or do they just fine tune an overall type of mix?

Eqing will flush out unwanted sounds from recordings, but for the live drum feel they want everything anyways to provide the body or "vibe" of the drums.

 

[Fury]

the overheads our key for that authentic drum sound

 

[God]

when cats record live drums with seperate mics, how do they go about keeping the cycbals out of the snare mic and or etc. or do they just fine tune an overall type of mix?

You control bleeding into other mics by having a gate on the specific mic. You generally have a gate on the snare, toms, and a low gate on the hi-hate. You use the overhead mics in with the other pieces of the drum kits for a "live feel."

But, it also depends on the type of music you're recording. If it's jazz, you have minimal mic placement, maybe three mics to the kit. With heavy metal, each tom, snare, etc., has a mic that is gated. Overall, it depends on how you want the drums to "breathe" or not.

If you can't afford a live drum recording, try programming to the "pocket." This means that your snare hits a little before or after the quantized 2 and 4. If it's a bit faster, it makes your drumming sound "tighter" because you're slightly ahead of the beat. If it's back, you have a different "feel" that might work better with your song.

Also, if you want to liven up the feel of programming, try to program ghost notes -- which are low percussive touches on the snare that is slightly audible. It "loosens" up the drum programming.

I've only met four people that care to program a ghost note, but their stuff sounds great. You can't beat recording the real thing though.

 

[Shonsteez]

Nice im a big advocate of natural feeling drums.....Overheads do def add that full sound....They can also seem to add too much room to the drums sometimes though, which im not a fan of for hiphop at least.

 

[Ash Holmz]

i always tell cats if u wanna natural swing just practice alot on ur mpc/keyboard with quantization OFF! ... it really makes a diffrence... people rely too much on the computer to place the instruments for them... its a crutch ... obviosuly if ur doing really fast programming or dirty south stuff then leave it on .. but for regular tempo and slower tempo hip hop as well as R&b u will get a way more natural feel with it off. that goes for evrything too .. keys, bassline, whatever.....

 

[Relic]

i always tell cats if u wanna natural swing just practice alot on ur mpc/keyboard with quantization OFF! ... it really makes a diffrence... people rely too much on the computer to place the instruments for them... its a crutch ... obviosuly if ur doing really fast programming or dirty south stuff then leave it on .. but for regular tempo and slower tempo hip hop as well as R&b u will get a way more natural feel with it off. that goes for evrything too .. keys, bassline, whatever.....

And if you dont have any rhythm it will show!

 

[Ash Holmz]

^^ lol true .. but the beauty of digital recording is that u can keep doing it over until u get it right lol... u should see me play some of my key progressions .. i will sit there forever just rerecording it till it sounds good.. but another trick is only qunatize certain elements and leave others static .. alot of time ill quantize the kick with a good swing .. and then maybe leave the snare and hh unquantized .. creates a nice contrast

 

[God]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Agreed.

- Also important: keeping the velocity of all percussive elements in a state of constant flux. A person can achieve this through a randomization feature on your DAW.

- Don't repeat fills. Add an extra snare pop to a bar in order to differentiate from the other.

- Listen to real drummers, like Dennis Chambers from Parliament, and attempt to emulate them.

- Proactively use online resources, like onlinedrummer.com to find notations for beats and fills. They have hundreds.

 

[LDB]

For those that say "real' drums dont' sound good in hip hop! WRONG! Try it.....if you have a funky drummer type set going you'll fall in love with that shit really really fast. Not to mention it won't be hard to take a whole new vibe on the road with you if you do shows.

Record sales alone are not going to get it anymore. You may just make ends meet if you rely on that. You better be putting together a dynamic show worth paying for if you want to make that bread now and in the future.

 

[2GooD Productions]

The constant velocity flux of the drums is what I was try to describe yesterday to LDB.
And Ash is right about the quantization, a live drummer isnt a robot and there is variations in tempo/hitpoints throughout a recording. And I agree LDB, putting on a great show is very important to todays market, where performace plays a big part in generating revenue and getting fans to come and see another show or even buy the album. Take the Blue Man Group for instance, its a visually stunning show. As were Jean Michele Jarre's shows.

 

[LDB]

yes, but the way "I'm" doing it (because it's what "I" want to do) is have the drummer play one way on the verse and another way for the hook/chorus. Once I get that I duplicate it for the rest of the song, so NO, you want here constant velocity/hit point changes through out the entire track and I compress what I do have so there's not much of a velocity change throughout. Shit still sounds "dope" to me. I'm not trying to get too extreme with it 2Good. At the end of the day this is still "hip hop" and what I'm doing still sounds good to "me".

 

[2GooD Productions]

At the end of the day, I only said what I had found out about drums while going through the exact same idea about "Live Drums" that you have right now. I was imparting info I had learned, Im not telling you what to do, just sharing some experience. The whole process of being so specific with the drums is to attain the "Live Drum" sound, isnt that what the title of this thread is? Isnt it live drums you are speaking of alot now?
I dont know why you are taking my info as some sort of diss or something.
Recreating anything "Live" is a very complicated process and there is nothing simple about it at all.
And every instrument has its different nuances that if to be recreated sounding natural then the work has to be put in, or have the drummer play the whole drum pattern and not just loop a snippet, because then its a sample and not a live drummer(if you get what im saying).
All im saying is, if you want live sounding drums you either get a drummer to play the whole thing or get very involved in makng the samples sound as real as possible using room reverb and delays to phatten the sounds and you have to create the little changes in velocity.
I dont know why you take it so personal?

 

[LDB]

Yall mf's kill me reading more into shit than what's actually there. lol! It's very funny to me. Point that "take it personal" finger at yourself. You're the one that brought something from yesterday or the day before up today. Type my name, prepare for a response, simple as that.

Since you want to get so specific as to what you "think" "my" post was all about it's more in the line of "mixing" and using actual "real" drum sounds. My main point was to have "three" sub mixes. If you read back through what I typed in the beginning you'd see that. There's nothing there about velocity, hit points and all that shit. I didn't say nothing about how to play them so check yourself before you try to be Mr.Right on what I was relaying.

I know you're a Mod and you want to be right on everything but there's no way you can be right on "my thought process", get it? "my thought process...damn...lol. If you don't understand that then fuck it....keep it moving!

repost so you don't have to rewind.....lmao

1) Drum samples: If you want “real” sounding drums you have to get “real” drum sounds!

Recommendations: This will give you that “Funky Drummer” hard hitting shit that’s the foundation of “authentic” hip hop tracks (think James Brown)!

Kick- Tama Starclassic
Snare- Collector’s Copper
HiHat (open & closed) - Paiste Dark Crisp
Cowbell- LP Rock Ridge Rider
Tom (you need 4 of various sizes) - Sonor Designer
Cymbals (3 various sizes, Paiste & Sabian)

Placement and FX: This is key if you want to pull off that “real, fat” feel.

Kick- centered with NO FX, Compressor 2.80:1
Snare- centered with Reverb plate & some crunch distortion
HiHat- centered with Reverb plate
Cowbell- centered with Reverb plate
Tom (1-4) - T1 pan slight left, T2 & T3 centered, T4 slight right, all with Reverb plate

* Eq each drum piece as needed*

THE MIX: *this is most important*

A) You need one basic mix for the entire drum set with the settings mentioned above.

B) You need to create an “Overhead” mix: “overhead” refers to the mic placement. It basically accentuates the Hithats. You can achieve this with various plugins or lowering the volume on all pieces except the hihats and then applying a compressor (Ratio 2.98:1, attack .56ms, Release 71.96 ms), crunch distortion, saturation, and Eq (low 76 Hz, .53 db,.45)(Mid & Hi 1000 Hz,0 db,0.45 1000Hz,0db,.045)

C) Room mix: For this all you need is a “room” fx plugin. It gives the effect of mics placed away from the drums set a various distances in the room. A small to medium room FX is best.

That’s it! Now adjust the volume on all three mixes’ to taste. If you followed these instructions your drums should sound “big, fat and funky”. Each mix should add its own special element!

Here’s an audio example: first 15 seconds is the room mix only, 16-30 is the overhead only, a break then entire drum mix only, and finally all 3 together.

https://www.illmuzik.com/vip/lildramaboi_realdrumexample.m3u

those drums go with a track I'm twerking on right now.....the track is "mean and funky". I'll probably post it in the next show case or the beat this contest.

 

[wizard]

good looks on da tips!! much respect lil d!

 

[Sincock]

lol at missing the point and getting stroppy with someone else for missing the point.

Everyone has their own ideas and this is a place to share it. There's more than one way to skin a panda.