Fuck compression.

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
I made two mixes. One with a ton of dynamics. One with heavily compressed tracks.

We all liked the dynamic one. But guess which one we ended up using?

The one I mixed to extreme compression.

Why?

Because that's we thought would "sound better" at a promo meeting.

Loudness wars. Nothing like adding "slight compression" at 1.2:1 @ -40 db to fuck up a track. Or me having to actually slam a vocal to the hilt to make it "louder."

The problem is... the louder one "sounds better" at the promo meeting. Fuckin' bullshit.
 

classic

I am proud to be southern
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 90
G,

Do you think that the audio masses will ever awakin from the matrix that we call the loudness wars and want a return to music with dynamics... I think(i hope) that one day there will be a backlash against over compression just like there was a backlash against hairspray rock and corney synths in the early 90's. I know its not exaclty the same but you get the idea...

Am i being naive?

class...
 

Kontents

I like Gearslutz
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 5
G,

Do you think that the audio masses will ever awakin from the matrix that we call the loudness wars and want a return to music with dynamics... I think(i hope) that one day there will be a backlash against over compression just like there was a backlash against hairspray rock and corney synths in the early 90's. I know its not exaclty the same but you get the idea...

Am i being naive?

class...

I think the only way that will happen is if everyone in the world becomes music producers...
 

Shonsteez

Gurpologist
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 33
HAHA, nice post God.
I feel u homie. I wish the whole loudness war would just get squashed and wither away soon.
What I hate the most about having to make music thats over compressed is it makes listening to what could otherwise be an amazing song feel fatiguing and boring cuz dam near everything is at the same perceived level. Its not like we gotta bring the 80s back but I sure would appreciate not having to squash the shit out of my tracks to compete with the big boys these days. :(
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
G,

Do you think that the audio masses will ever awakin from the matrix that we call the loudness wars and want a return to music with dynamics... I think(i hope) that one day there will be a backlash against over compression just like there was a backlash against hairspray rock and corney synths in the early 90's. I know its not exaclty the same but you get the idea...

Am i being naive?

class...


Yes. You're being naive, but you're not alone.

- Focus group testing support the loudness wars. Normal, non-audiophile people (everyone that is not involved in engineering/production) usually "like" smashed mixes.

- We used to A/B tracks sent to different mastering engineers in the studio, in an A&R's BMW and in the intern's shitty Toyota Corolla. We would then A/B in all of the interns' generally shitty cars - Civics, etc.

The heavily squashed/compressed tracks, on shitty factory 6x9's, "sound" better than the ones with dynamics. Most people in the world listen to stuff on shitty speakers. Not everyone has a custom Nakamichi system in their car or an Infinity system in their car.

- If something doesn't appeal to the exec in the promo meeting, like the mix is "too quiet," it won't get promo money because the non-audiophile idiot doling out the money "thinks" the mix sucks.

- Most people don't have their ears trained to notice when something is overcompressed. I can hear the shitty overcompression and hardlimiting in Metallica's new "Death Magnetic" tracks, but most 15 year olds don't give a fuck.

- The loudness wars is an "elite" issue... meaning people who are in the business or work with sound in some way understand it. These are a couple thousand people versus the millions that buy the album and "approve" of it.

- The only way the loudness wars will stop is if some Silicon Valley company designs some software or a new format that somehow makes shit louder while preserving dynamics.

Guess what will happen though if a genius finds a new format that will make stuff louder and preserve dynamics?

Exec to me: "Fuck the new format, let's make it louder than (other record company's shit)."
Me to exec: "How much are you paying me to manage this project?"
Exec to me: (large amount)
Me to exec: "Okay, let's squash it at 16:1, give it a 100dB boost and hard limit it -.0004 dB. Fuck it. Just let it clip and call it a 'new sound'."
Exec to me: "Brilliant, you just got a bonus."
Me to exec: "Then we can find other bands whose mixes we'll fuck up and call it a 'movement.' Let's call it "Clip-Music."
Exec: "Brilliant. Hire a multinational PR firm and 'create' the movement."
Me: "Yeah, but we'll have them seed the music in LA clubs by leaving flash disks on club tables, etc."
Exec: "Fuck yeah. Where do you want us to build your summer house? Maine or Connecticut?"
Me: "I want a larger expense account."
Exec: "Done."

That's what would happen.

We'd be going in circles.

I wrote this whole post because I was having ear fatigue listening to some mastered jobs that were going to be released. No headroom. My ears had no time to relax during the songs.

It's not the ME's fault either, they're just doing what the producer and RC want them to do. They get paid.

FUCK compression.

EDIT:
I fucking know that "compressors are great tools" and understand how to fucking use them properly. This is a comment on the fucking loudness wars.

If you want your chorus to sound better, LOWER the fucking volume on the chorus and then squash it to let the mix "breathe."

Most assholes don't do that, and they squash the entire fucking track. Why? Because normal people DON'T FUCKING CARE.
 

krysolite

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
Fuck it. Just let it clip and call it a 'new sound'...
Then we can find other bands whose mixes we'll fuck up and call it a 'movement.' Let's call it "Clip-Music...
Fuck yeah. Where do you want us to build your summer house? Maine or Connecticut?

That's what would happen.

LMFAO. someone should make a parody like this on youtube for all the audiophiles.

but anyway. good advice i guess.

just squash the chorus and leave the rest. i guess it could catch on, but then for the structure of the song, you'd have to have the chorus play almost immediately after the song starts (i.e. no verse before the the first chorus). so the majority of people think it's "loud" for the whole track.. no?

plus if you want it to sound consistent then you'd have to fade it with the rest of the non-chorus parts so it doesn't suddenly sound "quiet". or it might not make a huge difference if the chorus and the verse already has enough contrast. CHUKNO.

that's if i'm not too lazy to mix my beats outside of reason. which i should be doing but i don't have time right now cuz of school and work and i'm loafting on my music grind anyway.
LOL. god's probably pissed at the majority of the people on here cuz that's how we DOO. loaft on the music grind and focus on the present money coming in.

WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET A JOB AT YOUR COMPANY???
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
LOL....I was thinking the same thing. What the hell is CHUKNO? haha

"Chukno's" is Chuck Norris' new Mexican-Japanese food joint up on La Brea. Women in Japanese schoolgirl uniforms serve you sushi-burritos with a bottle of half Corona half Kirin Ichiban.

That's a recipe for a puke.

JUST FOR THE RECORD:

I'm not saying you should "just compress" the chorus and leave the rest of the track "as is."

Look mastering, properly using limiters and compressors to "paint" sound or "give life" to a track is an artform. I wouldn't recommend doing your own mastering unless only for educational purposes.

Hell, I'M even afraid of mastering. Mixing is a bitch in and of itself.

Mastering is a whole different game. Not gonna fuck with it. Send that shit to my guy and pay him the 500 an hour.
 

krysolite

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
"Chukno's" is Chuck Norris' new Mexican-Japanese food joint up on La Brea. Women in Japanese schoolgirl uniforms serve you sushi-burritos with a bottle of half Corona half Kirin Ichiban.

that's creative. chukno is chu know is you know. 'whatyouknowaboutthat' how rappers say in songs and they slur the words together creating the sound chukno. you didn't know. but now you do. even if you didn't want to.

but ANYWAY.

im not saying don't compress the rest (because i already compress the whole track inside of reason) but if you squash the chorus it'll sound louder and might be a big difference depending on how much u set the limiter or boost to (depending on what program/hardware u use for it). there's a plugin for sound forge called wave hammer, basically squashes it/works as a limiter (if i really understand what a limiter is).

anywayy do u recommend doing it? haven't really tried it even tho it sounds logical. i mean my beats are already "loud" because i try to cover all the frequencies in my beats and compress it.
working out of my "home studio" that is, keeping in my mind i can't drop 500/hr to get them professionally mixed, and keeping in mind that i'm interested in knowing some 'secrets'. holy shit i use 'quotations' alot. "". ". """"". '' ' ' '.
 

Formant024

Digital Smokerings
ill o.g.
man its not secret, mastering is a skill and each ME has its own set of gear and his own understanding of mastering certain pieces of music. The mastering process on itself varies to processing a signal through a unit bypassed to intensive eq'ing, aside from the ME's own tricks he knows to pull off by the gear he uses. Mastering is ant-fucking with experienced ears and in some regards i can see a Mastering engineer pull of a mix but not vice versa. If you're all about learning to give your tracks the delivery it needs than you need to look at the basic of mixing...then look at least 2 years further and come back to the subject...its just that tidious lol
 

God

Creator of the Universe
ill o.g.
that's creative. chukno is chu know is you know. 'whatyouknowaboutthat' how rappers say in songs and they slur the words together creating the sound chukno. you didn't know. but now you do. even if you didn't want to.

Great - another Tony Montana-ism. I suppose "meng" isn't "man" but the name of a Cuban-Chinese fusion restaurant...

sigh.

but ANYWAY.

im not saying don't compress the rest (because i already compress the whole track inside of reason) but if you squash the chorus it'll sound louder and might be a big difference depending on how much u set the limiter or boost to (depending on what program/hardware u use for it). there's a plugin for sound forge called wave hammer, basically squashes it/works as a limiter (if i really understand what a limiter is).

anywayy do u recommend doing it? haven't really tried it even tho it sounds logical. i mean my beats are already "loud" because i try to cover all the frequencies in my beats and compress it.
working out of my "home studio" that is, keeping in my mind i can't drop 500/hr to get them professionally mixed, and keeping in mind that i'm interested in knowing some 'secrets'. holy shit i use 'quotations' alot. "". ". """"". '' ' ' '.

- Don't "master" in Reason.
- Get a good audio editing program. It still won't match a mastering studio, obviously.
- Instead of compressing the chorus to get it louder- which alters the inherent "sound" of the chorus, use a limiter instead. Or better yet... leave some headroom and move up the volume fader.

Or better yet... start off with the basics and understand WHY you want to do the shit you want to do. You're talking about a whole 'nother level of shit when you're talking about mastering. Maybe the verse into the chorus needs adjustments on a fucking 4 band multiband compressor? Do you really know how to manipulate that?

No.

- Really learn how compression changes the fundamental sound of a completed track, depending on where you set the threshold, type of knee, ratio, etc. It can seriously fuck up your mixes if you're not doing it right.
- Read a book on mastering. It'll show you how much you really don't know. Be humble about it and start off at the beginning.
- Train your ears by listening to different sounds and see how they're affected and where they're affected.
- I can't give you any advice because I haven't heard any tracks.

I'm just worried that people who don't understand how to properly squash tracks will start squashing, making their songs sound "louder" but inherently more like shit. I look forward to seeing everyone's snare drum turned into a clipped square wave.


@ Formant:

Mastering is tough, dude. If you want it done right pay someone to do it, unless you've had success "mastering" in a distinct style of music and know your "settings" so to speak. Most people that think they can master, and there are many who CLAIM they are recording engineers and mastering engineers SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

Here are the DISTINCT JOBS:

Producer: Tells fuckers what to do. Bosses the AE around unless he thinks the AE is cool as fuck, and then tosses the AE a point on the record from his "pool o' points"- if he wants to work with the same AE. That's a very nice producer, btw.

The producer is the nexus of money, creativity and recording. Always gets paid up front and usually drives a Mercedes or other expensive sedan.

Audio Engineer(AE): Sets all the shit up, works hard and can be a dick at times. Producer keeps him in line. Makes sure the producer has all the signal chains queued up, PT running smoothly and occassionally fucks shit up for the producer.

Mixing Engineer: Usually a dedicated job if a professional. The better your mixing engineer the better your overall track. Fixes all the dumb shit the producer fucked up on because the producer focuses on "creativity." Also fixes the dumb mic-placement that the AE used by making shit "sound different."

Sometimes is thrown a couple points on the record if he's good. Paid per track too... usually.

Mastering engineer: different than all. Sits in a studio by himself and "gets credit" for dope albums and forgets about all the shitty ones he's mastered. The most stable of the bunch because he has stable work hours and can tell people when and how to fuck off. Paid hourly... usually.

Artist: Usually the last to see any money.
 

Sucio

Old and dirty...
ill o.g.
Battle Points: 304
I feel your pain, G..


Perfect example.... My last beat battle....the dude's shit was poorly mixed....very loud...sounded like straight up noise..

Mine was mixed waayy better....but of course, loudness wins. He probably put on some ultramaximizer shit... I hate that shit...

So when I present beats to some of these local artists...I make the shit loud, but not too much.....and they like it better than when I just mix it to where I leave room for someone to mix it down again/master it.

It's a damn shame where the actual artform of mixing and mastering is becoming quite lazy and very poor.

Whatchagondo?
 
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