***Do Any of Yall Copyright Sampled Beats?***

[Beatz 101]

I got a ton of beats. Most of them consist of samples. And i really need to copyright my shit cuz everybody wanna do biz but i dont trust some of these niggas.

My question is, can you copyright sampled beats with loops n' cuts. Or do you have to clear them first?

 

[Guevara]

COPYRIGHT IT, U DONT HAVE TO CLEAR SHIT UNTIL U DO BIG BUSINESS, BUT COPYRIGHT THAT SHIT CUZ ITS STILL YOUR WORK.

 

[Fade]

Yes, copyright it anyway because it's still considered your "composition", no?

 

[bigdmakintrax]

You cannot copyright an existing copyrighted track if you copyrighted it and were sent the certificicate, its because they didn't listen to it....but it is not legal to do that...so the answer to that question is no because there is an existing copyright registered off the original song or recording that the sample came from.....the only way you could legally do it is if you owned the original copyright to that sample.....think of it in terms of software.......suppose you wrote a program that was completely original but you decided to use the windows logo and the desktop on the interface.......it won't fly man....sorry....but you have to be original to copyright something....you have be the original creator of it and there can be no part of the piece that someone else created.....you could get permission and pay royalty fees....and if the copyright owner allows you could create a new copyright and give them credit....

 

[Guevara]

i totally disagree......if he uses the song to create something "totally" different and new, then it is a separate entity, if u write a book using your computer and windows word perfect do u not have a right to copyright your work because u used windows???
hes not tryin to copyright the whole song over but the beat is a separate entity from the song itself....like i said before..copyright ya shit dun.even if u dont agree wit me, its better to be safe than sorry and find out that u woulda been better just copyrightin the shit, then takin the chance.CiTY

 

[bigdmakintrax]

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me....it's just that simple ya gonna have to disagree with the law LOL....You're right though as far as the beat being a separate entity or whatever...but have you ever filled out a copyright form?.....when you do it has a few questions in there concerning the work....as in .....is there an existing copyright???....is this a completely original composition, did anyone else contribute....they put all of the right questions in there to make sure you won't be caught lying.......or is this an alteration to an existing work...of course you'll say yes...then when you do you have to add what elements and when you do they then go ahead and check to see if you had permission and of course you won't not unless you had a few hundred thousand and good connections with who you got the samples from....then they just deny you the copyright...LOL....then they do all of the rest.....the whole point of contention is that you are using a part of a recording that has been copywritten previously........also to add a sample that came from a record goes far beyond the artist also.....you have to look at the fact that there was an engineer that probably stayed awake until the early morning hours getting all of those kicks, snares and basses right on the ol school stuff before it got pressed away......I doubt that they would give you the mercy that easily to snatch something and use it as yours and copyright it.....I am not being an asshole just telling him the law....not my own opinion.....the beat can be copywritten of course.....but when you start adding elements that you know you didn't create that is theft...plain and simple my man....LOL...let me use a clearer exhibit.....you decide to make a shoe called the gueverra.....but of course to enhance it...with something that your sure is really recognizable you decide to use a good ol Nike swoosh........what do you think?....did you create it....not really all the way to the swoosh and the only reason you get some recognition is because of not the guevarra contribution but....the one that everyone knows....the Nike trademark....

 

[Guevara]

ok i understand your point and i wasnt tryin to beef, it was just an interesting discussion, i personally have been too broke to even think about a copyright, but i always assmumed there was a way to protect youreself.im still gonna check it out..
in that case Beatz, u need to priority mail a cd back to youreself, not in a regular envelope in something that needs to be tampered like one of those boxes or something with a plastic seal.

Gee my name comes up in a lot of "examples" around here.

 

[nas2000xl]

from what i understand you can get it copywritten. why? because my artists have done it. what you can`t do is, take someone elses song a (cover song) rewrite it still using the original music from that song and try to get it copywritten. for that you will need a (Mechanical Liscence) but if you take a small portion of that song and flip it to something entirely different then that becomes your song. the only thing is that you have to give acknowlegement to the sampled peice of music, by listing the artists name and the name of the song you sampled from. then if you want to put that same composition in distrubution for sales thats when you need a (MASTER USE LISCENCE). with that you must find out who owns the master recording, and they often require a fee. the owner will request info about the sample you want to use, the number of cds you are making, and the countries where you intend to distribute. so if you are just getting a copyright for your material just for safe keeping then i say go ahead.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Ok just because they copyrighted doesn't mean that whoever sent the certificate actually checked......flipping a sample or anything else
is called a derivitive work ( no matter how much or little of the song you flip or try to disguise...
.....the only person that can copyright a derivitive work is the original author ( not a sample flipper such as any of us...LOL)
Imma put this out there.....anything you attempt to copyright that is already in a sound recorded or written (sheet music) can only....
here is the US copyright law links for those of you that might not be too sure.
This the general blawsay blaw
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html
This explains what a derivitive work is and who can actually copyright it
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.html#who

 

[K.C]

I wanted to copywrite my beats, I did some reasearch to try find some forms and how much it would cost,
I was very happy to find that in Australia your work is automaticaly copyright, worldwide !, you dont have to fill a form or pay a cost, as soon as you finsh your work, it is protected, a (c) logo should be be placed to let people know, U.S might have the same system ?

 

[nas2000xl]

Originally posted by nas2000xl
from what i understand you can get it copywritten. why? because my artists have done it. what you can`t do is, take someone elses song a (cover song) rewrite it still using the original music from that song and try to get it copywritten. for that you will need a (Mechanical Liscence) but if you take a small portion of that song and flip it to something entirely different then that becomes your song. the only thing is that you have to give acknowlegement to the sampled peice of music, by listing the artists name and the name of the song you sampled from. then if you want to put that same composition in distrubution for sales thats when you need a (MASTER USE LISCENCE). with that you must find out who owns the master recording, and they often require a fee. the owner will request info about the sample you want to use, the number of cds you are making, and the countries where you intend to distribute. so if you are just getting a copyright for your material just for safe keeping then i say go ahead.

A typical example of a derivative work received for registration in the Copyright Office is one that is primarily a new work but incorporates some previously published material. This previously published material makes the work a derivative work under the copyright law.

To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a “new work” or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable.

so as i said you can get a copyright for the new material.

 

[light]

Ok, all that out... whats the penalty for copywriting somthing that contains previously recorded material. do they just withdraw your copywrite rights, or is there a fine. somone here said that if the copywrite goes thru, and it contains samples from a previously copywritten song, its cause they didnt check. well who is "they?" who is responsible for checking? does anyone check on a regular basis? can they sue us? will our profits be taken? and if they can. What method do they use to prove that the small horn in my track was originally recorded and released by them.
I dont know but it would seem that whoever is in possesion of the original copywrite for the song that the sample was taken from is responsible for the chalanging of the copywrite, the legal costs, and following thru with all the proceedings that are needed to make that chalange.
The one im really curious about is the method they use to prove it. most of my samples are very processed. wouldnt they have to guess at and reverse all those processes to achieve the original sound in its original form to get this proof? as we all know that is extreemly unlikely and i would probably say impossible.
now if your just looping someone elses song and adding drums then yah. no copywrite for you. but if they have to prove in anyway using some sort of sonic testing then im guessing that for the most part were safe. unless we get hella rich. and the original owner wants to invest large amounts of their resorurses in order to take some of ours.

 

[Craig Gantt]

^^^Yeah I ws thinkin about that too as I was goin over this recycle manual. If you take somethin like a kick sound and run it through a effect machine and change up everything like the tempo, pitch (etc) doesnt that make it your own? If not will it really be possible to prove that you used it? I mean yeah they could prolly reverse what you did and find the original sound but hell I can pull the wings off of a butterfly and call it a worm know what I mean?

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Nas you can get a copyright but what just nullifies everything you said is that in order to copyright the derivitive work you have to own the copyrights to the original work to register a derivitive work....so again if you create a sample free work without any recognizable vinyl....(even if its not recognizable you have to claim and give credit to where you got it).....more importantly only the owner of the original copyright can register a derivitive work....
take this example...original Bob James sample....you did some excellent work with and decide to copyright it, flipped it well many have said it's hottt!!!.....well hold on one second....Bob James owns the original copyright or his label or whoever the brilliant musicians were that spent many hours getting it right for you....but now 25 or so years later.....you decide......damn I got a hot track I need to copyright it......the only way you could legally do this is to remove the Bob James samples from the beat and get an original copyright on the portion you created....only BoB James or whoever owns the original copyright that contains that sample can make a derivitive work from by adding to or changing the existing registered work.......and to address the other questions....there is no penalty for getting the copyright if you push it through....you could have the copyright forever......where the questionable part is when you get challenged or the original copyright owners take notice....at that point even though you might have been able to copyright it.....you are subject to like 150,000 dollar fine per each infringement on the original copyright........it pays to attend seminars and find out from industry professionals that have had to deal with this, or call the copyright office......not listen to me...or people who might think they know how it works....I'm not putting this out off the top of my head, I've been involved with the industry and how it works for about the past 5 years.

 

[Craig Gantt]

^^^^Damn! 150,000? You mean like per sample you jacked or like per unit sold?

 

[nas2000xl]

bigdmakintrax i`m not trying to take anything from you, but i have been involved in the industry for about 10 years myself. (LOL) and i know a thing or 2 from experiance alone.

To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a “new work” or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a preexisting work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable.

now understand whats being said here: as long as you make a new works out of that sample it can get copyright. i think what you are saying is you can`t copyright a sample by itself in which you are right.

EXAMPLE: lets say you sampled a melody from a isaac hayes song. you then took that sample chopped it up and made a totaly different melody than what the sample was originally was taken from, with your drum and bass patteren, and what ever other sounds you may use to compile a track. once finished you have just created a new work derived from that sample which is copyrightable because its different and it contains a substantial amount of new material.

Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable.

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Man I am out of breath on this one....LOL but only the original author can copyright it my man....you authored the work...thaz cool. but as soon as you took the vinyl that belonged to someone else and did whuddeva you do to make it hot.....no matter how much you flip, chop or distort.....please read the link I sent, the first one...there is a question that they answer for you.....who can register a derivitive work....only the original author.........what you did might seem original but it contains a previously copywritten sound recording.....(a sample)...something someone else owns the rights to......why do you think that record labels ask you does your song contain any samples?.....it has to be cleared properly....they have to get permission for use....and also permission from the copyright owner to establish a new copyright because they derived the new song from or using the original copyright owners sample.....no matter how much of the sample was used.....The US copyright office is about 15 minutes from my house and I drop cd's off there all the time and the next time I am there I am going to find out if you can copyright something containing a previously copywritten sample, no matter how much of the sample is used or flipped....then I'll get back to you with the verdict....LOL

 

[nas2000xl]

i`m out fo breath too (LOL) but you do that and get back to me with your findings. before i was a producer i was an inhouse engineer and quite a few artist that did songs that contained some sort of sample from a signed artist had no problem getting it copywritten. yo bigdmakintrax you will wear a brother out. wwwwssssshhhhh.(LOL)

 

[bigdmakintrax]

Ok cool man....who were you doing work for? I know a few engineers, that worked on projects for murder inc back when vita was trying to blow...but they left the label and they are trying to produce now too...I do mostly local production in DC, MD, VA area....and I collab on east coast projects every now and have some projects in negotiation now.....

 

[luxx]

hey fellas I dont know shit about copywrtn material an all that derivative prioritor entrapanueral origanator bullshit, but big D where u at in VA? Im In DE an man I am working with some hot mc's.I dont know the link to post it but go to soundclick.com and find TRUMP productions. check the first 2 songs and let me know what u think.