Death Sentence

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M!nd_Ctrl

Posted Up
ill o.g.
kojo said:
He preferred to die pleading innocent than to live admitting guilt...

Yeah and he obviously had an agenda. Plain and simple he wanted to be a martyr and have people believing the government was killing an innocent man. Look at how many people jumped on the bandwagon.

Tookie helped to start an organization that continues to ruin lives. I don't think many people think clearly about situations.

Craig Gantt said:
He did everything a man in a box could do to right his wrongs

He insisted that he was innocent. What ever happened to taking responsibility?

Rhythmikal said:
is 30 years in a 5' by 5' cell not enough? thats pretty much a life for a life anyway.

Not quite my friend. Life is precious and that fool robbed it from others. At least he was able to continue breathing, albeit in a cell.

I think it's funny how people were trying to fight to save this man's life. Focus your energy on making some making changes that will truly help society. At least write some letters.
 

Rhythmikal

Beat's Disciple
ill o.g.
M!nd_Ctrl said:
Yeah and he obviously had an agenda. Plain and simple he wanted to be a martyr and have people believing the government was killing an innocent man. Look at how many people jumped on the bandwagon.

Tookie helped to start an organization that continues to ruin lives. I don't think many people think clearly about situations.

this is a really open arguement, theres really no right or wrong. but this Crip founding thing...

yes he did help to make the Crips which have ruined many lives, but would these people not be Bloods if Tookie never existed? would they not be in some other gang? theres plenty out there apart from crip.

its the same thing as sayin so and so murdered so and so because they watched Scream or played GTA. or that millions of kids are becoming gang bangers because of rap music.

sAfE.
 

kojo

ILLIEN
ill o.g.
M!nd_Ctrl said:
Yeah and he obviously had an agenda. Plain and simple he wanted to be a martyr and have people believing the government was killing an innocent man. Look at how many people jumped on the bandwagon.

Tookie helped to start an organization that continues to ruin lives. I don't think many people think clearly about situations.



He insisted that he was innocent. What ever happened to taking responsibility?



Not quite my friend. Life is precious and that fool robbed it from others. At least he was able to continue breathing, albeit in a cell.

I think it's funny how people were trying to fight to save this man's life. Focus your energy on making some making changes that will truly help society. At least write some letters.

the agenda thing is an opinion not fact, but it dont matter at this point, the man is dead now. theyve attempted to get new trials to prove his innocence (or further prove his guilt), but it was turned down. People are well aware of the crip founding but ultimately they have a deontological POV that executing people is wrong no matter what (FYI i dont agree with this). BTW who are you to say his work in prison wasnt truly helping society? If he was able to earn a nobel peace prize i would bet his work touched quite a few people.
 

Rhythmikal

Beat's Disciple
ill o.g.
ashes being scattered etc...

Arrangements are currently being made for the remains of recently executed Crips founder Stanley "Tookie" Willams. A large public funeral has been planned for early next week in Los Angeles, then Williams' ashes will be scattered in South Africa, as he had previously requested.

According to Barbara Becnel, co-author of Williams' anti-gang books, Williams wanted his ashes to be scattered in Africa.

"He wanted to return to his ancestral home," Becnel told the San Francisco Chronicle.

In one of his books, Tookie expressed a wish for his remains, stating: "I want to be buried in South Africa under a yohirimbi tree or my ashes scattered in the Blue Nile River to feed the fish there."

Becnel said she would probably arrange a meeting with former South Africa President Nelson Mandela to carry out the wish.

Mandela's former wife, Winnie Madikizela-Mandela, on Wednesday offered to help fulfill his final wish. A spokesman for Madikizela-Mandela told the Afrikaans Daily Beeld that she will "honor her promise to see that Williams is buried in South Africa."

His ex-wife, Bonnie Williams Taylor, said in a telephone interview that Williams had been "very impressed" with Madikizela-Mandela when he met her in 1996.

"She had an enormous influence on his life and it is his wish to be laid to rest there," she said.

Williams was sentenced to the death penalty in 1981 after being convicted for four brutal 1979 murders. After being jailed in San Quentin, Williams was nominated for the Nobel Prize several times after penning a series of anti-gang books for children. Throughout his imprisonment Williams continued to maintain his innocence and the NAACP, Jesse Jackson, Danny Glover, Jamie Foxx, Russell Simmons's HSAN and Snoop Dogg were all among supporters rallying for clemency for Williams.

Williams, 51, was executed Tuesday December 13th at 12:36 PST, after courts and California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger refused pleas for clemency. .

Schwarzenegger's decision to deny clemency has been greatly criticized by his native Austria, and most of Europe, particularly since capital punishment has been outlawed by the 25 member European Union. Even while conservative Austrians supported the governor's decision to carry out the rules of the American justice system, the Vatican also strongly opposed the execution, with a top aide to Pope Benedict XVI condemning it as dictated by the Holy See's opposition to the death penalty. Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Vatican's justice and peace department, said capital punishment was "the negation of human dignity."

As the state is poised to perform a record number of executions in 2006, five California Democrats have proposed legislation that would place a moratorium on executions until a special commission finishes examining whether California's criminal justice system allows innocent people to be convicted. Its hearing was scheduled long before Tookie's lethal injection on Tuesday.

Tookie's body, meanwhile, is in the care of Becnel, who told the Los Angeles Times that a major public memorial service for Williams will likely be held Tuesday in L.A. She anticipates it will be on the scale of the funerals for Rosa Parks, with 16,000 people projected to attend. Confirmed speakers include Jesse Jackson and Snoop Dogg. After the funeral, close friends will accompany the ashes to South Africa for another ceremony.
 

djswivel

Producer Extraordinaire
ill o.g.
Personally I don't believe in capitol punishment whatsoever. It should be completely abolished. It is a waste of lives, and taxpayers money. I've researched this and it costs a lot more to execute a prisoner than to keep him/her locked up for the rest of their life. I can understand why people want it, but the whole eye for an eye thing is a little juvenile to me. Let God be the one to even the score. I'm personally a believer in Karma, and I believe that in this life or the next, everything will be balanced out.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a post in defence to Tookie. This is a post against capitol punishment. Tookie did learn from his mistakes, but he's still a killer, and should've been locked up til he dies in there.
 

M!nd_Ctrl

Posted Up
ill o.g.
djswivel said:
It is a waste of...taxpayers money.

So we should pay to keep these people alive?

_______________________

And to the others, yes, the "agenda" comment was an opinion, but I'm not falling for the "I'm a good person now" crap.

When I was younger, I was on some "save the world" bullshit. As I've grown older and smarter, I see that you really need to take care of your own. And protecting someone like him is NOT taking care of my own. Focus your energy on issues that really matter!

Good Luck,


Ctrl
 

djswivel

Producer Extraordinaire
ill o.g.
M!nd_Ctrl said:
So we should pay to keep these people alive?

Ctrl


You didn't read the post. It costs MORE to kill them, than keep them alive. The cost is there regardless.

A death sentence isn't handed out like candy at Halloween. There's a lot of court, paperwork, and money involved in killing these inmates. Its costs a crazy amount more to kill them than keep them alive for the rest of their lives, believe it or not. The only way the death penalty is going to be cheap is if the judge pulls out his 9 after sentencing the inmate, and shoots him right there in court :shoot: . And even then, we would have to hope that nobody gets offended and proceeds with legal action against the judge and DA and whoever else was involved, good luck weith that not happening.

The biggest reason I don't believe in capitol punishment is also there is a chance, small maybe, but still a chance that the inmate is innocent. Once he's dead, you can't take that back. If you lock him up at least you can make an attept at fixing the mistake.
 

M!nd_Ctrl

Posted Up
ill o.g.
I did read your post, I'm just not phased by the twisted logic of anti-death penalty "research". Costs get compounded and overblown. It's like going to PETA to get all of your information on animal rights, when you should be be reading philosophy books to determine the answer for yourself. I personally don't understand why peeps in this situation are kept alive so long and given the chance for all of the costly appeals. Society is too "politically correct" these days.

On a related note, people that put themselves in bad situations (notice how I hold the people resonsible for their selves) need to expect the worst. I know that the laws are slanted, but seriously, some peeps need to analyze this slant and not become suspect. I hear too many people complaining while not even trying to take themselves out of bad situations.

Another thing I love hearing is people saying that "only god can judge", which is nothin more than rhetoric, because nobody actually believes it. Otherwise we wouldn't have bad opinions of anyone. There's a difference between what we say and what we do.


Ctrl
 

djswivel

Producer Extraordinaire
ill o.g.
M!nd_Ctrl said:
Another thing I love hearing is people saying that "only god can judge", which is nothin more than rhetoric, because nobody actually believes it. Otherwise we wouldn't have bad opinions of anyone. There's a difference between what we say and what we do.


Ctrl


I completely understand that statement, and to some extent, you are correct. I suppose only those that truly believe in god can accept and believe a statement like "only god can judge me". I'm not a religeous person, but I know god exists, and I personally do believe that statement. That doesn't mean I dont have bad opinions for people. I do. But I don't act on those opinons. I really don't.

You said you dont understand why these dudes are kept alive so long for the costly appeals to take place. The problem with killing them right away is the innosence factor. Nobody wants to have a mistake of killing an innocent person to weigh in on them for the rest of their lives. I know I wouldn't. So that's why these people on death row sit there for numerous years before ever being executed. They go through numerous appeals to make SURE the person is guilty and deserves it. And let's be honest, out legal system is far from fool proof. I wouldn't be suprized if numerous innocent inmates have been executed. How many people are executed in the US each year? I don't know the exact number, but it's a lot!! The sheer numbers dictate that innocents are killed. Even if it's one in every hundred, or thousand even. That's 1 too many. And the only way to prevent that is to abolish capital punishment.

Plus, if you are a believer in God, then realistically killing the inmate is a positive thing for the inmate, they will move on to a better place, and be forgiven for their sins. The idea is punishing them. I don't see a better punishment than taking away their freedom for the rest of their lives.

Also, realistically, it DOES cost more money to kill these guys. I didn't state where I got this information, so look into it yourself. And let me know what you find.
 
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