Death of Sampling=Watering down of hiphop

[Chrono]

i haven't read much of the 4+ pages to this article, but..

we all know that there are amazing melodies that can be created by sampled sounds.. but, i got into producing because i felt like my raps over other instrumentals was fractionally mine. so as much respect as i have for the music that i love, i have never felt confident about pursuing my talent with sampling records into bomb beats. I mean hey.. create the illest beat known to man and then you must get approval and pay to use it.

invest the time in your instruments and mixing genres into a brew and then mold it into your or your lyricists subject/style. This is how the NEXT will approach you and dominate the global musical industry, that is still paying for music.

 

[God]

i understand the melody part... no prob with that... thats the main reason we should chop n filter more... to avoid those court dates and legal fees... i dont care about the essence of the old song bein sampled anymore... let it keep that... i just want what the combination of instruments bring to the sample... thats just as Hip Hop as the loop itself!!! i feel noone should be taken to court for a beat that sounds totally different from the original, even though they used portions of the record to compose a new beat... i think ultimately, if im gonna sample the way that i sample, im gonna hafta just keep my mouth shut...lol... dont ask me where it's from, bcuz i'll never tell... i'll do a few youtube vids here and there, but i'll be DAMNED if i put my whole library up there.

da relic

This is not legal or business advice:

Dude - you're taking an instrumental performance, that is a copyrighted sound OWNED by someone, and using it for yourself. If you take the same performance and interpolate it, you can get around a lot of stuff. But in essence - taking the performance sample of a recorded song generally entitles the owner of that sound recording to a percentage of the money.

On the other hand, I think it's lame for labels to go after a cat for a really chopped up sample upon which a decision would be based solely on ownership of the original recording, rather than a recognizable melody. It's kind of like: "Hey, the computer program we paid that company for to recognize the digital "thumprints" of songs picked up some dude from the Bronx using one James Brown snare drum and one chopped Beatles violin sample. Are we going to gut this cat?"

THAT's lame. But, as you see - record industry peeps do it.

At least we both agree on the "recognizable sample" portion of this argument.

 

[slik da relic]

i understand the instrumental performance and copyrights as well G... but, if u cant tell whether a "violin" sample is from the Beatles, James Brown, Vanilla Ice, Madonna, Joe Blow from China, or just a simple violin i created on a digital or analog synth that i chopped up on my own, how can u come after me? the sounds MUST be recognizable to the song thats bein identified... otherwise, they can go after every song ever created... the reason its so easy to go after someone is bcuz 1)that person is usin sample portions thats EASILY identifiable, 2)sounds that are "signature" to the song in question AND 3)are leavin a main piece if not ALL the melody in the song... that makes it very easy in court.

da relic

 

[MagnaOpera]

Good article, good post.

I agree with the theory:
high sample clearance fees + lower revenue and budgets = less sampling = more bad keyboard players and more autotune vocals = quality of hip hop goes down

Bottom line, people need to overcome their fear of being sued, make good music, and put it out there for the people to enjoy. If the lawyers come cause you sampled something, then you are probably already in a good position. Lawyers don't chase broke MF's.

I don't know about that, or this thread in general. Would the elimination of samples lead to a "natural selection" of sorts and eliminate all the artists who were relying on samples? (not saying that sampling is a cop-out but I'd rather hear an originally composed, beautifully executed piano piece than a chopped up sample- they're both an artform but I would personally like to hear the former than the latter) Personally I think there's alot more quality in an originally performed piece of music than the re-arrangement of an already recorded composition... I mean, isn't that the definition of "music"?

I don't really see how the elimination of sampling would lead to autotuned vox though, IMO autotune is a cop-out (at least it is in the way that kanye used it on 808s).

just my two cents...

 

[Shonsteez]

Theres a particular aesthetic that you get from sampled joints tho that just arent equal to composed stuff. I like both for the record but you cant deny the classic sound of sampled music. Sure, you can sample yourself playing and try to replicate that sound by adding record static, etc. but it still doesnt have that organic/classic hiphop sound.

As far as the definition of music - i believe thats your perspective rather then speaking in general in regards to a wider range of views.

 

[MagnaOpera]

Theres a particular aesthetic that you get from sampled joints tho that just arent equal to composed stuff. I like both for the record but you cant deny the classic sound of sampled music. Sure, you can sample yourself playing and try to replicate that sound by adding record static, etc. but it still doesnt have that organic/classic hiphop sound.

As far as the definition of music - i believe thats your perspective rather then speaking in general in regards to a wider range of views.

Oh for sure man, I mean some of my fave beats contain samples. There's no denying that sampling is/was a staple of hip hop music. And I agree that nothing beats that warmth that vinyl gives. There's something to be said for sampling, but I mean I think this could be sort of like a turning point for hip hop. Optimistically we end up with some really great producers/composers, and weed out the real shitty ones *cough* kanye *cough*...

I think I can safely use most of the Roots' Rising Down to back up my "argument" (tho I'm not trying to get into it with you). Pretty stellar and I don't think they used more than a sample or two (if any?). I could be wrong though.

 

[Cold Truth]

a lack of sampling is dangerous to hip hop's health

but really

whats worse is boring sampling. how many fucking "soul" sampled loops do we gotta hear? its just as bad as a three note lil john synth line. its the exact same shit. there is no difference.

now, keyboards does not "equal" watered down. matter of fact, it is representative of another level of composition within the genre... now its a matter of its use. its not the same as the raw power you get from a stripped out, filtered two bar loop with hard ass drums. but that doesn't mean they all have to have an 808 clap and kick with a sawtooth wave form either.

the watering down of hip hop has more to do with the users of the tools, not the tools.

 

[Cold Truth]

i have only one issue with this logic.

Theres a particular aesthetic that you get from sampled joints tho that just arent equal to composed stuff. I like both for the record but you cant deny the classic sound of sampled music. Sure, you can sample yourself playing and try to replicate that sound by adding record static, etc. but it still doesnt have that organic/classic hiphop sound.
QUOTE]

thing is, the sample was of an original composition.

that being said,the issue to me has more to do with the quality of the composition as well as the recording.. i simply don't think that composed hip hop has, over all, reached a level of quality that is achieved by the musicians that get sampled.

so, most of us who compose have that challenge of stepping up the composition and engineering game. i definitely agree with the sentiment here, it's just that i think it IS possible to have that same quality.... it just isnt there yet.

 

[The Arkitekt]

On point Cold Truth

 

[Shonsteez]

Thats what I was saying tho man!....It just isnt there yet (with the exception of maybe a few artists out there)...

 

[skidflow]

not to many beatmakers sample hip hop that much unless their gonna just basically loop the original track and add extra hi hats or 8o8's or something. I think people want to sample the rare also...so that pretty much cancels out sampling anything recently composed(everything was basically sampled until synth compositions started poping up...dont know of any hip hop bands except for the Roots...and know one has sampled them yet)...who knows...it might be someone one day that flips your flip...and so on and so on. lol

 

[MagnaOpera]

not to many beatmakers sample hip hop that much

what? no way man.

 

[Quality]

what? no way man.

I think he meant sampling actual hip hop songs...like taking part of a pete rock beat and sampling it to make your own beat out of his.

 

[MagnaOpera]

Yeah I realized that after.

 

[slik da relic]

so ur sampling a sampled sample...lol damn, so now u might hafta pay the record company, the artist, and pete rock, bcuz he added a hi hat...lol

da relic

 

[Quality]

so ur sampling a sampled sample...lol damn, so now u might hafta pay the record company, the artist, and pete rock, bcuz he added a hi hat...lol

da relic

Just wait till someone samples your beat you made from sampling the sampled beat......


I heard in an interveiw Kanye sometimes will sample Pete Rock's drums whenever he solos them on a track. PR was asked how he felt about that and he said something about how thats wack if you can't even dig for your own shit. Completely agree...hopefully dudes won't start sampling other hip hop songs (besides vocals and such for choruses).

 

[Relic]

As a hiphop artist there would be more than a little irony at the fact you were suing someone for sampling you.

 

[slik da relic]

if u take my shit directly and use it... im suein... if u use it to where i dont know... then, i dont know...lol.. fukk it... im a hip hopocrite...lol

da relic

 

[MagnaOpera]

if u take my shit directly and use it... im suein... if u use it to where i dont know... then, i dont know...lol.. fukk it... im a hip hopocrite...lol

da relic

LOL suing would probably cost more money than the person ever made off of your beats... unless the beat was the first single on a platinum record or something... and even then.

 

[Formant024]

Just wait till someone samples your beat you made from sampling the sampled beat......


I heard in an interveiw Kanye sometimes will sample Pete Rock's drums whenever he solos them on a track. PR was asked how he felt about that and he said something about how thats wack if you can't even dig for your own shit. Completely agree...hopefully dudes won't start sampling other hip hop songs (besides vocals and such for choruses).

not poking at ya but who isnt using dr. dre sample kits, 9th wonder kits etc etc etc. From another perspective, who says its dre's drums if he is using purchased sample libraries which you could buy too...cat's are lazy but the difference between the sample cd's and dr dre sample kit is that most likely dre's sample kit had signal processing...something you can do too. Ive had the same thing with Prodigy-Firestarter, that break is on sample disc, exactly the same but with some processing over it...So, if you can prove that the sample of such and such rap artist is originaly from another sample disc then you only need to buy the sample disc because then you're also licensed to use the sound and there is no way that they could tell that you nicked it from dre (in example).