Crunk/pop/commercialism ruining hip hop? some food for thought, people.

[Cold Truth]

heres anopther perspective.

i will use Illmuzik's own, J-Malice. Now here is a man who is determined to make commercial, radio, mtv driven hip hop- and he doesnt step around that and is perfectly fine with that choice. i personally do not dig his style- it simply doesnt appeal to me. i do know that the man works hard at what he does and has gotten much better at it since he's been here. and he is fam, Illmuzik's own. he hasnt been aorund much the lkast few months, but he has been out promoting himself, and has a mixtape out now (or dropping soon, cant recall exactly) and is making moves. he uses a triton and makes commercial music......

the same music alot of us dont like and say is ruining and destroying hip hop. the same goes for themucka, and i'll bet my whole setup that this guy has more knowledge of beats and gear than half this website. i know he works hard and is good at what he does, whether i appreciate his sound or not.

those two guys, who i know have skills, make the same music we all hate on, and while our rants are aimed at the lil johns of the world, our very own, on this site, make music in the same vein.

tell me, would you still support them, as Illmuzik illumni? most of you, who have been here, and truly consider Illmuzik fam, would spport them. i have no doubts about that. I'm a Christian and all my music does and will always reflect that; i asked if heads would show the love and i got a resounding yes, and from guys who believe completely opposite of me- wings and equality come to mind. while that does not have anything to do with the music itself, it does tell me that we have been able to overcome more important issues- real life, personal isues that cause wars and have divided people for centuries.

When J Malice has gone Track Boy on us, and is producing some worldly, ice driven 16 year old pretty boy, chances are he will get love from the same guys who are supporting Equality's RJD2-on-steriods album, or Merc and Wings atmoshperic underground vibes the same as N.A.R's latest club track. i'm sure Guvara's soul sampling will get the same love that Classic or myself will for a completely self composed material....

the thing is, all sides get hate from the others, and everyone has their valid points. i cant front and say that i dig the music j malice makes, because i know i would probably badmouth it i didnt know son from Illmuzik. but dude is one of the coolest, most laid back, non combative cats on here.... so he gets a pass, and i would cop an album to support, the same as i would for deuce.

the point is, if lil john was our man from back home and we grew up together, whether we liked it or not we would support our boy, right?

now, obviously a personal friendship is different from some guy we dont even know... but it just struck me that things i would say about someones music changes when i know them personally. in the end, i am only happy that they are succesful. i might treat eminems production with less contempt if i came up with him. i still woudnt like it, but i cant help bu thtink i would still support if that were the case.

that shouldnt change yuor opinions, but i just thought it would be a good perspective to marinate on.

 

[mercurywaters]

i'd definitely support. but i don't buy music i don't like. there's more to support than copping the album. if i got a connect that would be good for malice then i would pass that info along. it's more about supporting his efforts more so then his music.

 

[Cold Truth]

still, same thing.

im not saying that we should change our tastes or even buy the music we didnt like (i would, and probably pass it on to someone who doesnt know aobut the artist but would like it)...

but there is such a fierceness to our anti-lil john/kanye/trackboyz rants.... and if we were cool with those dudes, if they came from Illmuzik, we would in all likelyhood just be happy for their succes.

 

[DJ Hoppa]

yo, thats a great fucking point. Beautifully put, and i feel the truth in every word you said. I dont like that type (lil jon, mainstream) of music, but I do realize these cats are doing the same thing i do, except they're actually in the realm of SUCCESS, which Im not even close to yet...Truth, I couldnt agree with you more...I myself try to steer clear of any "hating" posts, cause honestly, I got better things to be doing.... no matter who you are, what you do, how you do it, cats will be hating on you. ive learned to live with that, but just NOT PARTICIPATE. I respect all musicians no matter what they do. They are not ruining hip hop. HATE RUINS HIP HOP. If cats wanna get "crunk", thats alllll to the good.
I just had a similar convo with some cats in a local record shops forum, and they had the nerve to say "white people are ruining hip hop" ...their arguments were that white acts (atmosphere, sage francis, and others) were constantly being booked at expensive shows, and white kids are taking over and ruining hip hop....just another ignorant statement by another hater.

"you gotta get - that - dirt off yo shoulder"

 

[Cold Truth]

yeah, although that one is on a whole other level! tahts some real hatred, right there.

i just think that, realistically, why should we treat some dude we dont even know different than we would someone we came up with?

you know how many dudes at, say, okayplayer, would diss J Malice for being so commercialized?

i still remember when we heard that joint with dacalion and shortaay, and we were like, "props to dac for gettin his, but i aint feelin the mc." some of us were more harsh about it than others (myself included) and dude came on like a champ and was like, "thanks for the criticism, positive and negative......thanks for checkin it out" and took it LIKE A MAN!!!

cot damn! is that how we just treated dude, like some chump? some were blatantly disrespectful in the name of "being honest" and dude was cool about it.

basically, it started a paradigm shift with me.. .i started to kind of see things different afterwards. my tastes havent changed, however...

 

[MarkN]

hmmm its a good point cold !
i think to an extent i would support anyone coming up from illmuzik ! however it gets to a point where some people are not doing hip hop any favours if people are just in it for the money etc then i wouldnt support them illmuzik or not and if they really were part of the family then a time would come to speak to them about it !
Im not the sort of person that just hates something because its commercialised but i will say i dont like sumthing if thats my honest opinion if sum1 became successful from here i would probably feel the same and wish them all the best but i wouldnt fake and pretend to like their music or buy their CDs id be happy for their succes but why lie about it if your not feeling it your not feeling it and as a member off illmuzik hopefully they can accept that and carry on ! I don't feel im hating as such but i have a right to an honest opinion !

 

[eXampuL_oNe]

Good Topic Truth,

I would have to say I would support. I like both of them cats you mentioned styles and I think what there doin will be a success because thats what's in demand right now... Honestly though i dont see TheMucka's Music as being commercial, IMO.. J. Malice is a comercial producer and his stuff isn't up my alley but I would never hate on the man. It's what he does and everyone's taste and style is different.. So Yes i would definitly support anybody from illmuzik especially them cats! Keep doin the damn thing...

 

[StressWon]

Good point Truth, and I feel the way Merc does. I would show support and promote his sound around my way, but I wouldnt buy an album that I wouldnt listen too. But alotta my boys would, so I would still help him out either way,,,and the same for The Mucka.

But I dunno Lil' Jon, so fuvck em! LOL

 

[Cold Truth]

exactly what i expected from stress.... mad funny.

*whew... .

i actually expected a backlash from this. i agree completely with stress and merc. i just personally would likely buy.

and mucka will more than likely catch some serious radio play in a year or two.

 

[Ash Holmz]

p-boy makes some ILL ASS fucin commercial shiat ..(off topic)

 

[eldiablo]

https://www.illmuzik.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1109&stc=1[img]

this is lil jon in high school!!!!

 

[Equality 7-2521]

interesting topic Truth. i feel what your saying and i would support them to an extent. the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of mainstream producers know that there is no need for them to make good beats. they dont need to dig for the right samples and make intricate drum patterns. they are making music for the masses. all the masses want is something they can nod their head to and feel cool listening to. if however they demonstrate skills and are coming with fresh commercial style shit then i respect that.

the thing i hate is when producers sacrafice their creativity and taste so that people will dig their music. if J-malice is passionate about commercial style beats (which i assume he is) and thats the kind of music that he really digs, then good for him and i wish the best of success ot him. but if he is only making beats like that so he can get the dough then no i dont support that cos i concider that to be a form of lying and i hate lyers. music is made by artists first, businessmen second. thats debatable but its my opinion.

so to sum up those erratic paragraphs ^^^^ i do support fam here who are "doin their thing.".......even if i hate the music itself. i will not purchace it but i will tell all my mates who like that kind of music to purchace it. if they are doing someone elses thing to get cash then i dont support it.

hmmmmm

 

[Cold Truth]

great responses, i think....

so my next question is....

since we have realized that we would support our own people regardless- to whatever extant- how does(or does it?) affect the way we are towards those artists we dont know personally?

i guess for me it just comes down to me NOT actually SAYING that i cant stand kanye west every chance i get... basically,. i have my opinions and all.... but do i really need to express them every chance i get?

 

[StressWon]

Ya know what tho,,,,Its weird too. I got kids so if P Diddy came across my demo and hit me up and was like offerin me a deal and said that he would put my kids thru college, \next thing ya would see me in Mase's old red shiney suit rhymin about a new BMW I just bought by sellin crack!!!!! LOL Its about priorities sometimes. Not "exactly" money. But then this is how the "Man" wins. And how we lose the art of music.

...I thought I told you that we wont stop,,,

 

[Cold Truth]

probably the most honest response yet!

 

[AHXBEATS]

I don't really stress the state of hip hop right now, cause time always repeats itself. There was the Krs and Rakim era. Then The vinilla Ice and Mc Hammer Era. Then the Nas Biggie and Pac era, followed by the Nelly era, then the Jayz Eminem 50 cent era, Now it's the get crunk chingy little jon and outkast era. Time always repeats it's self, If you like what hip hop was before, then you have to prepare for the next cycle. Sooner or later all this bullshit will fade out, and that's when the new era begins. So instead of complaining you should be preparing for the next era. Remember timing is everything. You can't just make an album, and drop it, and expect it to just start selling. You have to know when the time is right to drop. Look at Jadakiss, his album sold 250,000 copies in the frist week, really good for jada. But then Loyd Banks drops his album the following week and everyone stopped buying Jada and started buying Lyod... He knew when to drop. They just took over the market, Loyd banks doubles that and sells gold his frist week (500,000 copies). It's a shady business, so don't expect to be rich over night without a strong team behind you...

That lil john pic is funny, he would have never survived the streets around my way looking like that. Cat's would have been diggin them pocket everytime he came around.
He makes my high school pic look gangsta..lol I should make T-Shirts with his face on it, I bet that would slow down them sales... lol Shady business. That picture in the wrong hands could do some damage.....

X-RAY
"aka"
Jewel Avenue OX

 

[eldiablo]

Sooner or later all this bullshit will fade out, and that's when the new era begins. So instead of complaining you should be preparing for the next era....

X-RAY
"aka"
Jewel Avenue OX

i like how you put that

 

[Ash Holmz]

lmao .. that pic is stupid funny ..lol .. haha .. i cant stop laughing ..

 

[orpheus]

i gotta agree with stress. everybody's a hypocrite to some extent. i don't think there's anybody that can say their opinions wouldn't change if they were being offered shitloads of money and had a real need for it. not like everybody "needs" money, but if you really had shit you needed to support, and that opportunity came along, there are few of us that wouldn't consider it at least. its terrible that that's the way it is, cause it does ruin mad shit (money that is), but that's just the world we live in for now, for better or worse. i can't see it changing any time soon either, since there aren't enough of us to really act on it, and as long as we live in that world, its hard for a single person to step outside of it and do something about it. and on the side, that pic of lil jon is fuckin hilarious.

 

[UnOwn]

This is a good topic, thanks Truth. Sometimes, I guess I have a tendancy to hate but now I am gonna have to reasses. I guess I just always felt like people in it for the money were defiling the artform, but I guess: "To each his own." I always knew it was a waste of time to bitch cuz no one will listen anyway, but at least I'm just wasting time at work...LOL. A lot of interesting perspectives here. I'd have to say that if someone was really my man I'd probably cop the shit to support, but I'd probably just use the CD for a coaster. Of course if he was really my man I'd also probably be trying to convince him to get off some wack shit...